CBS Lists Top 10 Coaches, include McDermott

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Cowher was lucky to win the one he did.

Really dude?

8 division titles, 10 playoff appearances, 161-99-1, 1 Lombardi

 

With who as his QBs

Neil O'Donnel

Kordell Stewart

Tommy Maddox

Mike Tomzak

Charlie Batch

Ben Roethelesburger 3 years

Did I miss anyone?

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[PlayoffsPlease]

On 7/13/2019 at 2:14 PM, eball said:

You and the “you can turn it around in a year or two” crowd are just wrong. The Rams are an anomaly, and regardless, they had their QB and RB when McVay took the job. 

Listen to a guy like Pat Kirwan who says it’s only fair to give a coach and GM five year contracts if you really want to give them a chance. 

McD and Beane have this team trending in a great direction, and those of us not complaining about “tearing down the empire Whaley built” are ready to enjoy the ride. 

 

Are the Seahawks also an anomal? Do you even understand the discussion point in question is about whether or not McDermott is doing the turnaround quickly.  Key word in the discussion is quickly. 

[eball]

30 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Are the Seahawks also an anomal? Do you even understand the discussion point in question is about whether or not McDermott is doing the turnaround quickly.  Key word in the discussion is quickly. 

 

No the key is to look at the specifics of these supposed “quick turnarounds” — what do they all have in common?  Really good QBs not in their rookie seasons.

 

Everyone is expecting a significant step forward for the Bills this year if Allen is “the guy.”

 

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

 

Are the Bears an anomaly as well? 

So, we're looking at one year sample sizes and making proclamations based on them?

 

Seals the deal then. McD took the Bills back to the playoffs in year one after taking over a broken franchise thanks to Rex.

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Really dude?

8 division titles, 10 playoff appearances, 161-99-1, 1 Lombardi

 

With who as his QBs

Neil O'Donnel

Kordell Stewart

Tommy Maddox

Mike Tomzak

Charlie Batch

Ben Roethelesburger 3 years

Did I miss anyone?

 

 

Really dude.

 

Go back and look how he won the one he did.  He made a few good decisions but He also had the 12th man on his side wearing a striped shirt.  Didn't hurt that that Seahawks TE dropped 4 passes too, one in the EZ.  He only went to one other AND LOST.

 

So I'm not really seeing where all those other SB victories would come in.

[formerlyofCtown]

11 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Really dude.

 

Go back and look how he won the one he did.  He made a few good decisions but He also had the 12th man on his side wearing a striped shirt.  Didn't hurt that that Seahawks TE dropped 4 passes too, one in the EZ.  He only went to one other AND LOST.

 

So I'm not really seeing where all those other SB victories would come in.

Big Ben.  What im saying is he was a superior coach to Tomlin by far.

[reddogblitz]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Big Ben.  What im saying is he was a superior coach to Tomlin by far.

 

Perhaps.  Too bad he retired. Now we'll never know.

 

Their records don't seem to bear it out however.  both 1-1 in SBs.  Tomlin .644 win % to  .623 for Cowher.

[formerlyofCtown]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Perhaps.  Too bad he retired. Now we'll never know.

 

Their records don't seem to bear it out however.  both 1-1 in SBs.  Tomlin .644 win % to  .623 for Cowher.

One has had Ben for their entire career huh.  You cant be that dense.  You must be a Troll.

[reddogblitz]

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

 You must be a Troll

 

Bill Billick was able to win one with Trent frickin' Dilfer.  Having one of the worst QBs ever didn't slow him down.

 

I have a right to my opinion no matter how dumb you think it is or is not.

 

Just because you wish it does not make it so.

 

 You must be a Troll.

Edited July 15, 2019 by reddogblitz

[LSHMEAB]

12 hours ago, eball said:

 

 

 

Everyone is expecting a significant step forward for the Bills this year if Allen is “the guy.”

 

I'm perfectly fine with that barometer. I'm NOT fine with the idea that this thing should take more than 3 years.

[formerlyofCtown]

12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Bill Billick was able to win one with Trent frickin' Dilfer.  Having one of the worst QBs ever didn't slow him down.

 

I have a right to my opinion no matter how dumb you think it is or is not.

 

Just because you wish it does not make it so.

 

 You must be a Troll.

And what was probably the best D ever.  So nice try.

[Saxum]

48 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Bill Billick was able to win one with Trent frickin' Dilfer.  Having one of the worst QBs ever didn't slow him down.

 

I have a right to my opinion no matter how dumb you think it is or is not.

 

Just because you wish it does not make it so.

 

 You must be a Troll.

 

If you think Trent Dilfer is one of the worsr QBs ever, you do not watch much football.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

If you think Trent Dilfer is one of the worsr QBs ever, you do not watch much football.

 

Coughlin won with Hostettler

Eubanks won with Joe Namath

Gibbs won with Rypien

Ditka won with a McMahon

Billick won with Dilfer 

Pedersen won with Nick Foles

 

You gotta coach the whole team, not just the QB.

 

If you don't know that, you do not watch much football.

[LSHMEAB]

Cowher was a rich man's Andy Reid who sort of lucked into his ring. If it weren't for that championship season, he'd go down as a guy who consistently won, but never got over the top. He was a very good coach, but so is/was Tomlin. I think Tomlin is entering that stage where a change of scenery may serve him well. Cowher is not a demonstrably better HC than Mike Tomlin.

[Thurman#1]

On 7/13/2019 at 10:28 PM, PlayoffsPlease said:

Quickly is a relative term.  The rams making the super bowl is pretty quick.  Think McDermott is more of a plodders pace. 

 

 

Nah, the Rams weren't quick. 

 

Their GM has been building that team for quite a while now. This'll be his eighth year there. Five years of building with results that weren't all that obvious, then he gets his franchise QB three years ago and all of a sudden things start looking better not just in terms of the roster but in terms of wins.

 

It took a long time for that Rams team to hit the tipping point.

 

 

This is an extremely consistent methodology problem people have when they talk about quick turnarounds. They ignore the years of work and losses that came before and only count the last two years, when the tipping point was actually hit. Sure, any turnaround will look quick as long as you ignore the first few years where the foundation was laid. But it's like calling an actor an overnight success after he suddenly becomes famous after eight years of waiting tables and failing auditions and taking acting classes and being thrilled when he was chosen for a Clearasil ad.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Cowher was a rich man's Andy Reid who sort of lucked into his ring. If it weren't for that championship season, he'd go down as a guy who consistently won, but never got over the top. He was a very good coach, but so is/was Tomlin. I think Tomlin is entering that stage where a change of scenery may serve him well. Cowher is not a demonstrably better HC than Mike Tomlin.

 

 

Cowher's a lot better. He brought the Steelers to AFC Championships time after time with QBs like Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomczak and the gem of the group, Neil O'Donnell. The instant he managed to get a real QB the rewards were fast in coming. You won't find many to rank Tomlin with Cowher, though Tomlin seems to be a fine coach indeed.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Coughlin won with Hostettler

Eubanks won with Joe Namath

Gibbs won with Rypien

Ditka won with a McMahon

Billick won with Dilfer 

Pedersen won with Nick Foles

 

You gotta coach the whole team, not just the QB.

 

If you don't know that, you do not watch much football.

 

 

Agreed that you have to coach the whole team ... but Coughlin didn't win with Hostetler. Hostetler's last year with the Giants came 12 years before Coughlin joined the G-Men. And Parcells didn't win with Hostetler either. Those Giants won with Simms/Hostetler, with Simms going 11-3 before his injury, 11-3 on a team that finished at 13-3. No Simms, no title.

 

Same with Pederson. He didn't win with Nick Foles. He won with Wentz/Foles, with Carson Wentz going 11-2 on a team that finished at 13-3. No Wentz, no title.

 

And Rypien was an absolutely sensational QB that year. Go take a look. His third and fourth years, he rounded into a guy who looked like he was on a straight shot to the Hall of Fame. Go look, in '91, the year the Skins beat the Bills in the SB, Rypien was 2nd in passer rating, 2nd in YPA, 2nd in TDs while still managing to have the highest TD:INT ratio of anyone over 250 attempts ... all in his fourth year.

 

He looked like he had a shot to become a true great ... and then he went off a cliff and nobody knew why till recently it's come out that he had a bad concussion on the heels of a bunch of others and he simply wasn't the QB he could have been. It's a very sad case, but it sure isn't a case of a coach winning without a terrific QB. Rypien was sensational that year.

 

Namath? Please, there's a backlash against the guy, partly because of how mouthy he is, and it's true that he wasn't the same after the knee injury, but he was terrific. The year they won the Super Bowl, Namath was first-team All-Pro. Not just the Pro Bowl, but first team All-Pro. Please.

 

McMahon? Fair enough. You have a point there. Same with Dilfer and one or two others such as Doug Williams and maybe Brad Johnson. But the list of QBs on Super Bowl winning teams is a list of very very very good QBs with somewhere around 10% being exceptions. And 10% isn't a model you want to build your attempt or your argument around.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Thurman#1

[C.Biscuit97]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Things looked better because they finally fired Fisher and hired a great offensive mind in McVay.

 

The Rams were a mess before McVay came. Much worse than the Bills. 

 

They obviously had pieces in place before he got there(as did the Bills before McDermott arrived) and he took advantage of that along with adding some pieces in the offseason including the Bills Sammy Watkins.

 

McDermott and the Bills took the opposite approach and fans are still waiting for the results.

Yup.  Personally, I wanted a guy with a better nfl resume than Daboll to guide Allen but I guess we’ll see.  But with all the qbs he took a job in their second year, they had guys with much more nfl success than Daboll guiding them.  I worry that SM could have the Chan issue where the other side of the ball cost him. 

 

And SM seems like a nice guy and probably a good guy to play for.  But top 10 right now is laughable.  They have had a negative point differential in both years,  his OC and QB managing have been questionable at best, and he has been terrible at coaching challenging.  The good news is most coaches are a dime a dozen so if Allen is a franchise guy, he will be fine because he is a good defensive coach.  But anything less than .500 this year (minus Allen getting hurt) should be considered a failure.

On 7/14/2019 at 2:22 PM, eball said:

That would be a great trivia question. Everyone assumes the Seahawks were immediately great when Carroll got there. 

And if Russel Wilson didn’t become Russell Wilson, he would have been fired too.  So it all comes back to if your qb is good enough.  If Allen is good, SM will be fine.  If not, he won’t be long for the job.

On 7/13/2019 at 9:13 AM, Cripple Creek said:

Always nice to get positive publicity, but, errors (mentioned above) & Mike Tomlin made me stop reading.  If Tomlin is the 10th best coach in the league then there is a greater shortage of good coaches vs. good QBs.

I don’t know.  I like Tomlin and thinks he gets too much blame (but that’s the job I guess).  Those 2 players (Bell and Brown and it sounds like Big Ben is a part of the problem too) are some of the most selfish players in NFl history.  And they still went in 9-7.  

 

I think the Steelers have a playoff season this year and Tomlin gets Coach if the year consideration.  

[Saxum]

17 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Nah, the Rams weren't quick. 

 

Their GM has been building that team for quite a while now. This'll be his eighth year there. Five years of building with results that weren't all that obvious, then he gets his franchise QB three years ago and all of a sudden things start looking better not just in terms of the roster but in terms of wins.

 

It took a long time for that Rams team to hit the tipping point.

 

Rams were case where GM knew what he was doing and won.

[LSHMEAB]

17 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Cowher's a lot better. He brought the Steelers to AFC Championships time after time with QBs like Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomczak and the gem of the group, Neil O'Donnell. The instant he managed to get a real QB the rewards were fast in coming. You won't find many to rank Tomlin with Cowher, though Tomlin seems to be a fine coach indeed.

He was there for a LONG time and I'm sure he had input into QB decisions. After like 20 years, he finally found one in Roethlisberger. When you coach somewhere for well over a decade, the QB issues are on YOU.

 

I don't believe he had what it took to outcoach Belichick consistently, so I'm not convinced he'd have won any more rings than Tomlin.

 

During the majority of his tenure, football's greatest dynasty didn't exist. Yet his team didn't even APPEAR in a SB until his final season. He's right on par with Tomlin, who also has his flaws. No better. No worse.

Edited July 16, 2019 by LSHMEAB