MJS Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, Gugny said: My biggest problem with this is that there's no footage of what led to what happened inside the store. I'll be honest ... my comments about the police officer swearing and tasing the guy unnecessarily were mostly tongue-in-cheek. But without the context, it's difficult to judge either person. I'm certainly in no position at all to criticize the police officer's actions. It's pretty easy for me to say, "the guy was sitting and not moving, why not just let that be good enough until help arrived?" I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why ... and I'm also sure that I don't know them. What I commend the officer for, most, is that he kept his gun in the holster. We need more police officers like that. I think we saw why it wasn't good enough to just be sitting on the ground. He lunged at him from that sitting position and could have grabbed his firearm. Sitting on the ground removes no threat. Laying on your stomach and getting your hands cuffed behind your back removes much of the threat. In fact we saw in the other video posted here that getting shot a bunch and falling to the ground did not remove the threat. That guy stood up and ended up grabbing another police officer and could have killed him. So I would say being on the ground is not sufficient to reduce any threat level whatsoever.
Ol Dirty B Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 51 minutes ago, Gugny said: This post is stupid. Now give me my ***** money. At least we're calling posts that actually happened stupid. Not making them up to call them stupid. It was a stupid post. But I know. You old guys like to stick together, you're like hyenas
Gugny Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: At least we're calling posts that actually happened stupid. Not making them up to call them stupid. It was a stupid post. But I know. You old guys like to stick together, you're like hyenas We do laugh a lot!
Don Otreply Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) On 7/9/2019 at 12:55 PM, Boatdrinks said: What an idiot Yup, Edited July 10, 2019 by Don Otreply
Gugny Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said: He didn't just leave him sitting there because if you watch the video you can see how fast a person can get up and charge you. Before all else cops need to get him into cuffs then speak with him. Clearly, I watched the video. The guy was sitting; not moving. The police officer kept screaming at him to get on his stomach. I get it. That's what he's supposed to do and, obviously, he wanted him on his stomach. My point is that the guy was still. We'll never know, but my guess is that had the officer just kept the taser pointed at him and said, "don't move," the guy wouldn't have moved. Then, when help arrived, he'd have been more easily able to get him in handcuffs.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said: If I'm that cop and that dude continues to lunge at me like that and takes my stun gun I'm unloading a clip in him. They don't have the ability of foresight and has no clue what this guys intentions actually are. key word, if. lets just say it's a good thing you're not a cop. I know that there will be and are times of justification where they may need to unload a clip on a suspect but it seems to me, the mentality has gone over board with cops (I know, some cops are being killed too) where they seem to have become trial/judge/convicter all in one with shooting first and asking questions later. it is wise in these times to follow orders when dealing with trigger happy cops. Edited July 10, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973 1
aristocrat Posted July 10, 2019 Author Posted July 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Thats a hard video to watch.. never want to assume I know the answers, but at the same time, there has to be a better way to handle that. Wouldn’t you want to stand in place and use less Lethal with lethal as backup? the guy was shot how many times and still got up and charged the officer? that guy was on something so you can imagine if the cop tried a tazer it would have done less.
John from Riverside Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said: Ive known guys that were security forces in the USAF and they most assuredly did not receive the exact same training as civilian LEOs. Similar jobs, but definitely different as well. Have you been through the police academy in your state? If not, how would you know? Not trying to bust your chops too hard cuz I like most of your takes on football related things, but it’s pretty obvious you have a weak knowledge base on the topic of legal and justified use of force pertaining to LEOs. Hmmmm Did you ever stop to think that being a former military and specifically military policeman that I also would have a lot of contact with LAPD, CHP, Sherif's department as they try very hard to recruit us when we leave the military AND that we share a lot of the same interests? That we might have family in law enforcement? I chose not to pursue it when I left the military and instead became a university student advisor....it doesnt mean I left it completely because you NEVER leave it completely. To make assumptions about someone you dont know is well........stupid. I stand by the fact that profanity is not needed and elevates the situations.......being calm and giving calm instructions unless aggression is showed is a MUST....it IS taught in both the military and the academy regardless of what you say. i will also go on to say that a lot of these community uprisings against law enforcement that you are seeing across the United States can directly be attributed to innappropriate actions taken by police officers and then end up going viral. A police officer should never do anything that they would not want to see the media or the community see on a video. There is a reason why they are called PUBLIC SERVANTS or "peace officers" I think YOU are the one that is in need of re evaluation here.
John from Riverside Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: Thats a hard video to watch.. never want to assume I know the answers, but at the same time, there has to be a better way to handle that. Wouldn’t you want to stand in place and use less Lethal with lethal as backup? In this situation I would take him down. I would NOT back up like they are doing. I probably would not use the word "please" and give the commands. I probably would follow up with "put the knife down or you will be fired upon" and keep my go pro on at all times to document the event. There is a distance rule with a perp with weapon....at the end of the day the peace officer deserves to go hope at night alive as well.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Hmmmm Did you ever stop to think that being a former military and specifically military policeman that I also would have a lot of contact with LAPD, CHP, Sherif's department as they try very hard to recruit us when we leave the military AND that we share a lot of the same interests? That we might have family in law enforcement? I chose not to pursue it when I left the military and instead became a university student advisor....it doesnt mean I left it completely because you NEVER leave it completely. To make assumptions about someone you dont know is well........stupid. I stand by the fact that profanity is not needed and elevates the situations.......being calm and giving calm instructions unless aggression is showed is a MUST....it IS taught in both the military and the academy regardless of what you say. i will also go on to say that a lot of these community uprisings against law enforcement that you are seeing across the United States can directly be attributed to innappropriate actions taken by police officers and then end up going viral. A police officer should never do anything that they would not want to see the media or the community see on a video. There is a reason why they are called PUBLIC SERVANTS or "peace officers" I think YOU are the one that is in need of re evaluation here. You are entitled to your opinion, ignorant as it may be. Trying to clothe it in “I was a military policeman” and “I know people” doesn’t hide it. Don’t get angry when you get called out on it after putting it on display for others to see. Your statements about “community uprisings against law enforcement” show off how you have no clue what you are talking about. Ignorant people shouting ignorant opinions from the mountaintops (i.e. you) and believing that those ignorant opinions on police procedure should have any value in the discussion are more of a factor. Your misplaced perception that there was “inappropriate actions” doesn’t make it a fact. Like you said before, it’s your opinion. You are welcome to have it. I’m welcome to point out that it’s not factually correct.
John from Riverside Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Sig1Hunter said: You are entitled to your opinion, ignorant as it may be. Trying to clothe it in “I was a military policeman” and “I know people” doesn’t hide it. Don’t get angry when you get called out on it after putting it on display for others to see. Your statements about “community uprisings against law enforcement” show off how you have no clue what you are talking about. Ignorant people shouting ignorant opinions from the mountaintops (i.e. you) and believing that those ignorant opinions on police procedure should have any value in the discussion are more of a factor. Your misplaced perception that there was “inappropriate actions” doesn’t make it a fact. Like you said before, it’s your opinion. You are welcome to have it. I’m welcome to point out that it’s not factually correct. I have tried very hard to have a civil conversation with you on this. Your an idiot......we will leave it at that.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I have tried very hard to have a civil conversation with you on this. Your an idiot......we will leave it at that. Irony, thy name is John...
Gugny Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said: You are entitled to your opinion, ignorant as it may be. Trying to clothe it in “I was a military policeman” and “I know people” doesn’t hide it. Don’t get angry when you get called out on it after putting it on display for others to see. Your statements about “community uprisings against law enforcement” show off how you have no clue what you are talking about. Ignorant people shouting ignorant opinions from the mountaintops (i.e. you) and believing that those ignorant opinions on police procedure should have any value in the discussion are more of a factor. Your misplaced perception that there was “inappropriate actions” doesn’t make it a fact. Like you said before, it’s your opinion. You are welcome to have it. I’m welcome to point out that it’s not factually correct. I respect both you and John. And I have a lot of respect for the law abiding LEOs in our country. But I'd like some clarification with regard to your comment about the community uprisings against law enforcement. There are a LOT of bad cops out there. Murderers. Shooting people in the back. Shooting unarmed people. Beating the ever living ***** out of people. To say that they're abusing their authority would be the understatement of the century. And they keep getting acquitted. They get paid while they do nothing waiting for a bull####/rigged trial that will find them "not guilty." It happens a lot. It happens TOO MUCH. In my heart of hearts, I believe that those cops are the minority. I think most people in law enforcement are in it for the right reasons and do the right things. But to sit here and say that, "community uprisings against law enforcement that you are seeing across the United States can directly be attributed to inappropriate actions taken by police officers," (John's words) is inaccurate or, even worse, ignorant ... that's simply wrong. He's right. He is spot on. Why do you take exception to that assertion? It's true. There are murderous cops out there. Worse than the murderers they're supposed to be apprehending. You can't deny this. Can you?
Sig1Hunter Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) There are “a lot” of bad cops out there? You defend that position. Are you defining “bad cops” out of your belief of what cops should be doing or what the legal definition of lawful use of control is? Are there bad cops? Yes. Are there a lot? No. My response to his statement about uprisings against law enforcement was controverting his accusation that these uprisings are the fault of cops. Too many people out there that have ZERO training and experience in what law enforcement officers can and can’t do are screaming their ignorant views through the stupidity megaphone of social media. Most of those people have an agenda. I don’t think that John does, but he still buys into the BS. Cops shouldn’t cuss a dude that is actively fighting them? Come on. Is a cop shooting a suspect in the back wrong? If a man is carrying a gun, running away from the cops, and ignoring commands to drop the gun, can the cops shoot him in the back? What is an unarmed suspect? Is a suspect unarmed if he attacks a cop and tries unsuccessfully to take his gun? His taser? His baton? I have ZERO issues with how this situation was handled. The cop did the best with what he had, like 99 percent of every other cop working on a daily basis. Yet, people B word and moan about language. GTFO. Edited July 11, 2019 by Sig1Hunter
Sig1Hunter Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 For further reading, I challenge you to know and understand the SCOTUS rulings in Tennessee v Garner, and Graham v Connor...and all associated rulings. Cops know them and are bound by them. The sham trials you speak up of are based upon these well-founded legal conclusions. They aren’t based upon the beliefs of people like you, or me, or John. They are based on the rule of law.
Gugny Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 53 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: There are “a lot” of bad cops out there? You defend that position. Are you defining “bad cops” out of your belief of what cops should be doing or what the legal definition of lawful use of control is? Are there bad cops? Yes. Are there a lot? No. My response to his statement about uprisings against law enforcement was controverting his accusation that these uprisings are the fault of cops. Too many people out there that have ZERO training and experience in what law enforcement officers can and can’t do are screaming their ignorant views through the stupidity megaphone of social media. Most of those people have an agenda. I don’t think that John does, but he still buys into the BS. Cops shouldn’t cuss a dude that is actively fighting them? Come on. Is a cop shooting a suspect in the back wrong? If a man is carrying a gun, running away from the cops, and ignoring commands to drop the gun, can the cops shoot him in the back? What is an unarmed suspect? Is a suspect unarmed if he attacks a cop and tries unsuccessfully to take his gun? His taser? His baton? I have ZERO issues with how this situation was handled. The cop did the best with what he had, like 99 percent of every other cop working on a daily basis. Yet, people B word and moan about language. GTFO. 33 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: For further reading, I challenge you to know and understand the SCOTUS rulings in Tennessee v Garner, and Graham v Connor...and all associated rulings. Cops know them and are bound by them. The sham trials you speak up of are based upon these well-founded legal conclusions. They aren’t based upon the beliefs of people like you, or me, or John. They are based on the rule of law. Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily. I'd quantify that as "a lot." One is too many. Daily occurrences? That's a major problem. Sham trials? Common man. Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns. Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad. But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted. Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal. Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified. If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop. And I have no problem with the officer in this original video. In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun. He's one of the responsible ones. One of the many. But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day. If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you. I'm better.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily. I'd quantify that as "a lot." One is too many. Daily occurrences? That's a major problem. Sham trials? Common man. Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns. Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad. But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted. Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal. Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified. If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop. And I have no problem with the officer in this original video. In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun. He's one of the responsible ones. One of the many. But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day. If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you. I'm better. You’re wrong. And, there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have a factual knowledge base. You are operating purely on what you “believe”. I’m ignorant in working at a college doing what John does. And, I sure as heck am not going to pretend to tell you how to drop the fries in the fryer at Chick Fil A. Why? Because I have no clue on how to do it. There is a conspiracy by the legal community to protect cops?! Lmao. First of all, prosecutors are politicians and love nothing more than to hang a dirty cop high. Which is fine, hang the dirty ones high. Second of all, it’s JURIES that decide verdicts. Not the corrupt prosecutors, judges, or defense attorneys. I’m betterest.
whatdrought Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily. I'd quantify that as "a lot." One is too many. Daily occurrences? That's a major problem. Sham trials? Common man. Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns. Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad. But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted. Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal. Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified. If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop. And I have no problem with the officer in this original video. In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun. He's one of the responsible ones. One of the many. But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day. If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you. I'm better. Just because something is in the media every day doesn’t mean it’s accurate. The majority of the dog whistling “police brutality” shouted about in the media these days is boiled down to examples of cops shooting people resisting arresting and attacking cops. There are some that are definitely wrong, and I’m sure @Sig1Hunter would condemn them when he sees them- just as I would. The reality of it is that the guy in the original video could have been shot dead and 100% deserved it. As soon as you attack a cop you forfeit the right to live. It doesn’t matter if you have a just reason to resist arrest, that’s not the time and place to make your case. If cops are abusing power and being tyrants there’s two ways to handle it- either take it to the system for justice, or do to them what our founding fathers did to the tyrant British. But the second course of action results in a lot of blood on both sides. You can’t resist and then get upset when resistance is met with bullets. Attacking anyone is a great way to get shot.
Gugny Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Sig1Hunter said: You’re wrong. And, there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have a factual knowledge base. You are operating purely on what you “believe”. I’m ignorant in working at a college doing what John does. And, I sure as heck am not going to pretend to tell you how to drop the fries in the fryer at Chick Fil A. Why? Because I have no clue on how to do it. There is a conspiracy by the legal community to protect cops?! Lmao. First of all, prosecutors are politicians and love nothing more than to hang a dirty cop high. Which is fine, hang the dirty ones high. Second of all, it’s JURIES that decide verdicts. Not the corrupt prosecutors, judges, or defense attorneys. I’m betterest. I am not wrong. You are wrong. And you are biased. Don't tell me I don't have factual knowledge, as I can read and I can watch the news. This is not what I believe. It is fact. Bad white cops are mowing down unarmed black men. Are the black men criminals? Usually, yes. But they are unarmed. The problem is that any Joe can become a cop. Why? Because they're paid VERY POORLY to start. Pathetic training. Pathetic background checking. And they put people out there with guns and authority. Dangerous. And this is the result. People unnecessarily getting shot and killed. Tell me I'm wrong all you want. I know better. And keep denying the "blue wall," which has existed since before either one of us was born. Juries decide the verdicts. That's cute. You're smarter than this. Your code just won't let you show it.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 11, 2019 Posted July 11, 2019 Just now, Gugny said: I am not wrong. You are wrong. And you are biased. Don't tell me I don't have factual knowledge, as I can read and I can watch the news. This is not what I believe. It is fact. Bad white cops are mowing down unarmed black men. Are the black men criminals? Usually, yes. But they are unarmed. The problem is that any Joe can become a cop. Why? Because they're paid VERY POORLY to start. Pathetic training. Pathetic background checking. And they put people out there with guns and authority. Dangerous. And this is the result. People unnecessarily getting shot and killed. Tell me I'm wrong all you want. I know better. And keep denying the "blue wall," which has existed since before either one of us was born. Juries decide the verdicts. That's cute. You're smarter than this. Your code just won't let you show it. Ok, you’re trolling. Gotta be. I’m out.
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