Having a hard time talking myself out of 10 wins for this team...

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Says the man conveniently forgetting four years in Cleveland. 

 

No not forgetting them at all. Belichick was a better Head Coach 2nd time around - no doubt. But the Patriots had a dynasty almost as soon as he arrived. 

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't agree about talent.  Nobody out-talents the other teams for very long.

 

I discussed accuracy above.  I dont think accuracy is a serious problem with Allen.  This year will answer the question, because he will throw a lot of short balls.  We will see.

 

It's true I'm a Billiever, but I understand the process can fail for any number of reasons.  I don't see a lot of point in arguing that the Bills should be doing something else.  It's  obvious what the approach is McBeane are following, and it's a slow-build approach.  Beyond that, however, I actually do believe it's a good approach.  At least there's a plan. Whaley and Marrone and Rex all seemed to be winging it.  

 

I think Marrone had a plan. His Jacksonville teams and his Bills teams have enough in common to lead me to believe he had a plan and a vision as to how his team should play. I don't think he was ever in sync with Whaley here.... that was a bit of an issue. But that 2014 team was really good and unlucky not to make the playoffs even with Kyle Orton at QB. 

 

Rex was winging it for sure and Whaley was a talent accumulator but not a team builder  

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Marrone had a plan. His Jacksonville teams and his Bills teams have enough in common to lead me to believe he had a plan and a vision as to how his team should play. I don't think he was ever in sync with Whaley here.... that was a bit of an issue. But that 2014 team was really good and unlucky not to make the playoffs even with Kyle Orton at QB. 

 

Rex was winging it for sure and Whaley was a talent accumulator but not a team builder  

Yeah, I sort of liked Marrone.  But if he had a plan, it wasn't clear what it was.  And I agree, he and Whaley werent working together. I suspect that's one reason Marrone bolted. 

 

McBeane have a plan, they're working together, and I can understand what they're trying to do.  I like all of that.  

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No not forgetting them at all. Belichick was a better Head Coach 2nd time around - no doubt. But the Patriots had a dynasty almost as soon as he arrived. 

He also inheriTed a team that had gone 38-26 over the previous four-years and then lost a lot of games.   

 

There are different ways to succeed. Every story is different.  McBeane are writing their story.  They aren't finished yet. 

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I sort of liked Marrone.  But if he had a plan, it wasn't clear what it was.  And I agree, he and Whaley werent working together. I suspect that's one reason Marrone bolted. 

 

McBeane have a plan, they're working together, and I can understand what they're trying to do.  I like all of that.  

He also inheriTed a team that had gone 38-26 over the previous four-years and then lost a lot of games.   

 

There are different ways to succeed. Every story is different.  McBeane are writing their story.  They aren't finished yet. 

 

I am not trying to make any point about Beane and McDermott. I just think Belichick doesn't prove your point. Partly because it was his 2nd go around and partly because his Patriots won almost immediately. 

 

I think Marrone's plan was clear. Spend your resource on a suffocating defense and try and run the ball a lot and have a low risk offense. That is what the Bills did in his tenure and it is what Jacksonville have done as well. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not trying to make any point about Beane and McDermott. I just think Belichick doesn't prove your point. Partly because it was his 2nd go around and partly because his Patriots won almost immediately. 

 

I think Marrone's plan was clear. Spend your resource on a suffocating defense and try and run the ball a lot and have a low risk offense. That is what the Bills did in his tenure and it is what Jacksonville have done as well. 

Got ya. I don't drink Belichick proves anything either.  I just think that McBeane have the same philosophy.  Dedication, hard work, study, do your job, limit mistakes, block and tackle.   

[cd1]

On 7/11/2019 at 9:18 AM, Shaw66 said:

This is absolutely true.   It's like a perfect storm.  

 

I have always believed, and continue to believe, that Brady wouldn't have nearly as good any place else, and Belichick would have been good but not THIS good without Brady.  As you say, Brady's an OC on the field.  He has Belchick's work ethic, but more importantly he has a brain that somehow is in sync with Belichick's.   Belichick's genius is that he gets everyone else on the team, coaches and players, into the same mindset - do your job, do it right, do it every time.  Then he got a QB who learned to do that at the QB position and lead all the other offensive players to do it.   It's really quite amazing.   

 

I think it is very important to note that it is not just Beli & Brady. Belicheat makes the entire team work their ASSES off studying film!

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/31/bill-belichick-uses-this-sun-tzu-quote-to-inspire-the-patriots-to-win.html

 

also

'There's nothing fun about it'

https://sports.yahoo.com/another-former-patriot-sounds-off-culture-theres-nothing-fun-185553282.html

Edited July 14, 2019 by cd1

[Socal-805]

On 7/9/2019 at 8:09 AM, eball said:

With the days winding down until training camp starts I'm becoming more and more convinced that only a rash of key injuries will prevent McD's third team from compiling at least 10 wins and a playoff spot.  The schedule is favorable, particularly early, which means an already established defense (boosted by Ed Oliver) should be able to not only hold their own but control games.  This is the third year for many of these guys in the defense.  The secondary is second to none (can this even be disputed?).  Edmunds got a "free" year of NFL schooling, added bulk, and should now be playing rather than thinking.  Milano was a budding star before his leg snapped.  If the offense merely improves from awful to average that should be good enough.  Special teams can't be worse -- the Bills added one of the premiere return men in the game and washed the stale taste of Danny Crossman from our mouths.  Heath Farwell is energetic and ambitious, he has the respect of players because he was one of them, and I think he'll have guys trying to run through walls for his ST.

 

And let's talk about the offense.  Last year it was bad.  Through nine games, historically bad.  But then something happened.  Josh Allen returned from injury and made plays.  Enough plays to show us what he's capable of (as well as what he needs to work on).  More importantly, he got eleven weeks of coaching and preparing for NFL competition as "the man."  Through the final seven weeks of the season the Bills bore resemblance to an NFL offense -- despite receiving some of the shoddiest OL play I've ever witnessed.

 

Fast forward to the offseason.  Two veteran receivers added, including an expected "safety valve" for Allen.  A top line center.  Loads of veteran competition along the OL along with a promising rookie draft pick.  A new OL coach who has been spoken of highly around the league.  Gore and Singletary.  Who here is going to predict that the offense will do anything but improve?

 

Everything I've seen/heard from Josh Allen suggests he is smart, competitive, and tough as nails.  His teammates already love him.  So yeah, if he can improve his numbers to something north of 55% completions, 3500 yards, and a 2.5-1 TD/INT ratio I think the Bills will be just fine.

 

Is this an indefensible "homer" post?  I really don't think so.  Tell me why expectations should be lowered.  And be civil.

 

You make some good points.  ST will improve I believe.  D should be better - points allowed must improve.  J. Allen - should be better as well - 55 %+ improvement is a MUST and he improve TD/INT ratio as you also mentioned.

 

I KNOW he's a fantastic athlete, however he needs to make plays with him arm and not just with his legs, and I think he may behind a much improved O-line.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

13 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

 

 

As far as a plan goes, a slow build approach is not needed in todays NFL.

That's exactly where I'm at. This notion of replicating what the Patriots have done is a pipe dream.

 

The Bills window is not YEARS from now. We have the HC, QB, and OC all going into year 2 together. That's more continuity than the Bears or the Rams, for instance, who made quantum leaps immediately upon hiring a NEW HC/OC in the QB's 2nd year. As far as the roster rebuild, that could get old quickly. They've had some time to develop a roster they're comfortable with. 

 

With Allen on his rookie deal, the time to win starts now.

Edited July 14, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

That's exactly where I'm at. This notion of replicating what the Patriots have done is a pipe dream.

 

The Bills window is not YEARS from now. We have the HC, QB, and OC all going into year 2 together. That's more continuity than the Bears or the Rams, for instance, who made quantum leaps immediately upon hiring a NEW HC/OC in the QB's 2nd year. As far as the roster rebuild, that could get old quickly. They've had some time to develop a roster they're comfortable with. 

 

With Allen on his rookie deal, the time to win starts now.

If Allen and McD are going to win for 10 years, and I think they can, I can wait another year to get there. 

[row_33]

I see Vegas is offering 6.5 wins for the year

 

take all your money and put it on 10 wins with this confidence

 

keep us updated 

[DuckyBoys]

Allen can stay healthy for 16 games then 10 wins seems possible.  Bills suffered 4 blowout losses with Allen out or no starting.  Of the games he started the Texans and first Jets/Dolphins match ups should all have been wins.  That was with one of the worst O line/skill position groups in quite awhile.  I think I'm starting to drink the kool aid.  Regardless its should be fun long as he is healthy.  He's just fun and entertaining to watch

[Shaw66]

57 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Allen can stay healthy for 16 games then 10 wins seems possible.  Bills suffered 4 blowout losses with Allen out or no starting.  Of the games he started the Texans and first Jets/Dolphins match ups should all have been wins.  That was with one of the worst O line/skill position groups in quite awhile.  I think I'm starting to drink the kool aid.  Regardless its should be fun long as he is healthy.  He's just fun and entertaining to watch

 

I tend to think like this, until I remember that plenty of other teams are improving too.  Ten wins is tough.  It's tough. The Bills have to actually be good to win ten. 

 

It's possible and I would love it. I don't expect it. 

[eball]

7 hours ago, row_33 said:

I see Vegas is offering 6.5 wins for the year

 

take all your money and put it on 10 wins with this confidence

 

keep us updated 

Don’t you worry, I was on this over as soon as it came out. 

[Richard Noggin]

17 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I sort of liked Marrone. 

You know, so did I, at first. 

 

But then I waited on him a bunch, including the night he was doing the hard-sell on his big FA class of 2014. In an overheated 3rd floor dining room with Spikes, Dixon, Graham, and Rivers (who literally signed his contract mid-meal in a storage room) plus their families and the appropriate coaches, Marrone got himself fairly tuned up and went on and on about what a fu$%!ng awesome o-line coach he is because of his success in New Orleans. You know, the whole Saint Doug shtick. It was a real thing. 

 

He was somewhat likable from a jock-y perspective, with his downstate accent and bravado and his former o-lineman physical stature. But so damned aloof as coach of the Bills. 

 

(I had had a random, previous interaction with him in a Tipp Hill bar in Syracuse (while he was head coach there) that revealed a MUCH more humble and tolerant public persona, for the record. Made an instant fan out of me. But his private demeanor with the Bills was really ego-city).

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

You know, so did I, at first. 

 

But then I waited on him a bunch, including the night he was doing the hard-sell on his big FA class of 2014. In an overheated 3rd floor dining room with Spikes, Dixon, Graham, and Rivers (who literally signed his contract mid-meal in a storage room) plus their families and the appropriate coaches, Marrone got himself fairly tuned up and went on and on about what a fu$%!ng awesome o-line coach he is because of his success in New Orleans. You know, the whole Saint Doug shtick. It was a real thing. 

 

He was somewhat likable from a jock-y perspective, with his downstate accent and bravado and his former o-lineman physical stature. But so damned aloof as coach of the Bills. 

 

(I had had a random, previous interaction with him in a Tipp Hill bar in Syracuse (while he was head coach there) that revealed a MUCH more humble and tolerant public persona, for the record. Made an instant fan out of me. But his private demeanor with the Bills was really ego-city).

 

Oh Marrone is an ass. No doubt. But I think he is a decent head coach and I think in slightly different circumstances could have been a success in Buffalo. I never felt that way about Gailey, Jauron, Mularkey, Williams or Rex. Marrone is the only coach of the drought I actually think had a plan and had a clue what he was doing. The ownership situation and a GM he clearly didn't see eye to eye with (which at least in part led to an unsettled QB situation) was his downfall here rather than not being able to coach. 

[C.Biscuit97]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh Marrone is an ass. No doubt. But I think he is a decent head coach and I think in slightly different circumstances could have been a success in Buffalo. I never felt that way about Gailey, Jauron, Mularkey, Williams or Rex. Marrone is the only coach of the drought I actually think had a plan and had a clue what he was doing. The ownership situation and a GM he clearly didn't see eye to eye with (which at least in part led to an unsettled QB situation) was his downfall here rather than not being able to coach. 

Disagree Gunner. He was carried by a great defense and his offense (his specialty) sucked.  It’s been the same way in Jacksonville.  He has shown no ability to develop qbs and his offensive attack is from a different decade.  He will get fired this year.

[mannc]

39 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Disagree Gunner. He was carried by a great defense and his offense (his specialty) sucked.  It’s been the same way in Jacksonville.  He has shown no ability to develop qbs and his offensive attack is from a different decade.  He will get fired this year.

Yep, Marrone is a typical, unimaginative dinosaur head coach who inexplicably keeps getting hired by NFL teams.  Coaches like him and Mularkey are why the NFL has the Rooney Rule (although it doesn't seem to be working).  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

32 minutes ago, mannc said:

Yep, Marrone is a typical, unimaginative dinosaur head coach who inexplicably keeps getting hired by NFL teams.  Coaches like him and Mularkey are why the NFL has the Rooney Rule (although it doesn't seem to be working).  

 

Question: does being black make someone an innovative head coach? Because I'd offer Leslie Frazier as an example of the opposite.

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Question: does being black make someone an innovative head coach? Because I'd offer Leslie Frazier as an example of the opposite.

Where did I suggest that?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Where did I suggest that?

Seemed kinda implicit from your post. I dunno.