SoTier Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I would've added the Titans or Texans to this list instead of the Fins just because New England is so invincible as long as they have the two headed monster at coach and QB. The AFC East will be wide open when Brady retires and us and the Jets are farther along than the Dolphins. Odd choice by Orr but not surprising since he wrote this in May.... Maybe he thinks we're stuck in the middle. Teams that have gotten the courage to rip their rosters down to the studs (having done so with a long-term vision and aligned organizational mentality) have usually been rewarded….I’d rather be a Dolphins fan right now than a lot of other teams stuck in the middle. – Connor Orr, MMQB I think this is a myth. What teams in the last decade or so have done this and had long term (ie, mutliple year) success as measured by playoff appearances and wins? Lots of people talk about this but the examples they give aren't very recent, so they aren't good models for the current NFL. The teams that have made sudden turn-arounds in recent years like Philly, the Rams, the Chargers and Chicago all built around the talent already on those teams, even when the team as a whole was underperforming. Edited July 4, 2019 by SoTier
Beast Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 I’ll say it right now.....a year from now the Bills will be the media darlings to come out of the AFC. 1
Doc Brown Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, SoTier said: I think this is a myth. What teams in the last decade or so have done this and had long term (ie, mutliple year) success as measured by playoff appearances and wins? Lots of people talk about this but the examples they give aren't very recent, so they aren't good models for the current NFL. The teams that have made sudden turn-arounds in recent years like Philly, the Rams, the Chargers and Chicago all built around the talent already on those teams, even when the team as a whole was underperforming. I agree with this as it's nearly impossible to do a full rebuild in football. Cleveland was so bad they did it by default and they're still Cleveland so we don't really know if they'll be as good as advertised. Miami and Buffalo would be the closest thing to a full rebuild I've seen in a while after a decade plus of mediocrity.
GunnerBill Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 12 hours ago, ProcessTruster said: spell it with two n's in Ireland (where the name comes from) and they think you're an idiot (or an american) . Is that not a tautology?
MJS Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 The Dolphins!? They will be picking top 5 in the draft next year. They haven't even found their winning season window yet. New coach, new QB who got traded away after 1 year, new schemes, and absolutely no evidence of being a contender. I don't think the Bills or Jets should be on a list like that either. 3 very unproven teams, but at least the Bills have been building something whereas the other two are starting from scratch.
GunnerBill Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, SoTier said: I think this is a myth. What teams in the last decade or so have done this and had long term (ie, mutliple year) success as measured by playoff appearances and wins? Lots of people talk about this but the examples they give aren't very recent, so they aren't good models for the current NFL. The teams that have made sudden turn-arounds in recent years like Philly, the Rams, the Chargers and Chicago all built around the talent already on those teams, even when the team as a whole was underperforming. Actually I think the Bears are exactly the example you are looking for. Ryan Pace took over as General Manager in January 2015 inheriting a roster including Jay Cutler, Matt Forte, Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett and Brandon Marshall on offense and Lance Briggs, Willie Young, Lamar Houston and Jared Allen on defense. He immediately set about tearing that roster down over the following two seasons and the team went 6-10 followed by 3-13 as he stripped away talent. 2017 was supposed to be when the rebuilt roster started to show its worth but they were young and not ready to win hence a coaching change and the success of 2018. But the only two guys who were on that reasonably talented 2014 roster that Pace kept around in his strip back and rebuild were the two most recent 1st rounders - Kyle Long and Kyle Fuller. So Chicago did basically take the strip back and rebuild approach. The question with the Bears is still the pay off. I am not ready to crown their asses yet. The Bears may yet be who we thought they were. Edited July 4, 2019 by GunnerBill 1
MJS Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 "A bit different, as we still may not have seen this team completely bottom out yet ... The buy-low rental of Josh Rosen is useful for a franchise that will spend the next year evaluating quarterbacks and preparing the roster for an accelerated climb in the AFC East in the post-Tom Brady era." So their definition of a team entering their Superbowl window is a team that hasn't yet "bottomed out" and who will be "evaluating quarterbacks" next year? To me that sounds like a bad team. Their own description condemns them.
TigerJ Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 4:21 PM, Just Joshin' said: I don't get all the Flores love in the media - not even sure he was a full DC last year. If so, he only had one year in the job. It will be interesting watching him and Gase in the AFCE next year. But, but, he's a Belichick protege. All Belichick protoges are destine for greatness. You know that, just like Bill O'Neill. Oh yeah, maybe not.
Rocket94 Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 I believe that the Bears are for real and they will be back. If it wasn't for a missed field goal (we can certainly relate) they could have done some damage last year 9 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: I’ll say it right now.....a year from now the Bills will be the media darlings to come out of the AFC. I agree...2020 seems to be the Bills year.
Rocket94 Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 4:47 PM, Ethan in Portland said: Colts are the best of that bunch. They have a better QB and an emerging O-line and defense. They need to add another WR to complement TY. I liked Rosen but the Dolphins seem like a bottom 5 team not one near the top soon. Dolphins? I Don't get it either.
stuvian Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 4:27 PM, Nester said: 49ers and Dolphins? whats wrong with these idiots amen. such homerism is unbecoming a national publication
SoTier Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 12 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Actually I think the Bears are exactly the example you are looking for. Ryan Pace took over as General Manager in January 2015 inheriting a roster including Jay Cutler, Matt Forte, Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett and Brandon Marshall on offense and Lance Briggs, Willie Young, Lamar Houston and Jared Allen on defense. He immediately set about tearing that roster down over the following two seasons and the team went 6-10 followed by 3-13 as he stripped away talent. 2017 was supposed to be when the rebuilt roster started to show its worth but they were young and not ready to win hence a coaching change and the success of 2018. But the only two guys who were on that reasonably talented 2014 roster that Pace kept around in his strip back and rebuild were the two most recent 1st rounders - Kyle Long and Kyle Fuller. So Chicago did basically take the strip back and rebuild approach. The question with the Bears is still the pay off. I am not ready to crown their asses yet. The Bears may yet be who we thought they were. I don't think you're alone in that assessment of the Bears. I've seen several media types question how good they are. I guess part of that comes from whether Trubisky will continue to develop from "decent" to good, but part of that also comes from the belief that the other NFCN teams all took steps to get better. BTW, Miami had a worst-to-first rise, albeit briefly, a decade ago: the Carp went 1-15 in 2007, changed regimes, and went 11-5 and won the division in 2008 (the year that Brady missed virtually the entire season). It was a mirage ... they soon returned to mediocrity.
GunnerBill Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 9 hours ago, TigerJ said: But, but, he's a Belichick protege. All Belichick protoges are destine for greatness. You know that, just like Bill O'Neill. Oh yeah, maybe not. Do you mean Bill O'Brien? If so he is probably your worst example of a Belichick protege failing. O'Brien has been an NFL Head Coach for five seasons: has a winning record, has had four winning seasons out of five and has three division titles to his name and a playoff win (though his overall playoff record of 1-3 is not great). You could probaly argue he is the most successful for the Belichick NFL coaching proteges: Romeo Crennel: 5 full seasons (across 2 teams); a 28-55 record; 1 winning season; 0 division titles; 0 playoff berths. Josh McDaniels: Less than 2 full seasons; an 11-17 record; 0 winning seasons; 0 division titles; 0 playoff berths. Eric Mangini: 5 full seasons; a 33-47 record; 1 winning season; 0 division titles; 1 playoff berth (0-1 playoff record). Matt Patricia: 1 full season (still in post); a 6-10 record; 0 winning seasons; 0 division titles; 0 playoff berths. I don't include Jim Schwartz because Schwartz worked as a scouting assistant for Belichick in Cleveland not a coach. So O'Brien may not yet have proven himself a championship calibre coach but he has proved himself a capable NFL Head Coach and he is the only one of the Belichick tree you can say that about.
GunnerBill Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, SoTier said: I don't think you're alone in that assessment of the Bears. I've seen several media types question how good they are. I guess part of that comes from whether Trubisky will continue to develop from "decent" to good, but part of that also comes from the belief that the other NFCN teams all took steps to get better. BTW, Miami had a worst-to-first rise, albeit briefly, a decade ago: the Carp went 1-15 in 2007, changed regimes, and went 11-5 and won the division in 2008 (the year that Brady missed virtually the entire season). It was a mirage ... they soon returned to mediocrity. Yea that was the Tony Sparano (RIP) wild-cat year wasn't it? That was always unsustainable. When it comes to the Bears I think they are a legit defense. Will be a top 5 defense again I would expect even without the genius of Vic Fangio. The question for me remains offense. I don't see an elite player anywhere on that offense. I don't think Trubisky will ever be an elite Quarterback. I think their offensive line is good but it is a combination of 5 solid to good starters not single exceptional player, their receivers similarly are good footballer players (Robinson, Gabriel, Miller etc) Burton is a solid tight end but not a star. The one potential star might be Tarik Cohen. It will be interesting to see how he handles being the RB1 with Howard gone rather than the electrifying, shifty, change of pace and 3rd down back. I think you can win a lot of games with an elite defense and a steady offense. The question is can that model make you a consistent contender.... and I am less sure of that. 1
TigerJ Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Do you mean Bill O'Brien? If so he is probably your worst example of a Belichick protege failing. O'Brien has been an NFL Head Coach for five seasons: has a winning record, has had four winning seasons out of five and has three division titles to his name and a playoff win (though his overall playoff record of 1-3 is not great). You could probaly argue he is the most successful for the Belichick NFL coaching proteges: Romeo Crennel: 5 full seasons (across 2 teams); a 28-55 record; 1 winning season; 0 division titles; 0 playoff berths. Josh McDaniels: Less than 2 full seasons; an 11-17 record; 0 winning seasons; 0 division titles; 0 playoff berths. Eric Mangini: 5 full seasons; a 33-47 record; 1 winning season; 0 division titles; 1 playoff berth (0-1 playoff record). Matt Patricia: 1 full season (still in post); a 6-10 record; 0 winning seasons; 0 division titles; 0 playoff berths. I don't include Jim Schwartz because Schwartz worked as a scouting assistant for Belichick in Cleveland not a coach. So O'Brien may not yet have proven himself a championship calibre coach but he has proved himself a capable NFL Head Coach and he is the only one of the Belichick tree you can say that about. Oops Bill O'Brien
Seasons1992 Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 11:07 AM, ShadyBillsFan said: What was the topic again? ? She’s a 20. HARD pass on her. I would NOT. What a PITA.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 5:35 PM, Augie said: A-Rod is happy? I’d be pretty happy with a half a BILLION dollar$! ? I tried to cancel them for years, with no luck. Finally, the credit card number got cancelled after being compromised. They stopped coming.....for a while. A few years later one started showing up for free in my wife’s name. Few people in this great nation of ours (hey, it’s July 4th! Celebration time!) care less about sports than my wife. And she’s not into it for the swimsuit issue. I thought it was a pathetic attempt to up circulation. NOW, we get a second issue in the name of a deceased family member. Just what we needed! They make Wells Fargo look like the standard of integrity! Arod seemed to struggle as a sports caster the few times I have seen him. His teeth are really well bleached though. 7 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said: HARD pass on her. I would NOT. What a PITA. Lair
Seasons1992 Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Lair 1
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