Bills Stadium Situation A Big, Big Nut To Crack...

[billsfan_34]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Good question. Honestly I think people can afford some increase in tickets. Just look at prices on StubHub and TicketExchange. Early season games regularly go for well above face value. So the market already pays a bit more. Just not sky high Patriots and Cowboys prices.

 

As for inside the stadium, it would be smart if they follow the lead of the Falcons and keep prices reasonable on food and drink. Charge less and you'll sell more.

 

The whole everyman club concept does not even involve any great expense in creating, just configuring your concession area to have a field view. Imagine if there was, along the top of the NEF upper deck where the bathrooms are, a concession stand. But people could stand and watch the game from the rail?

Some can afford it some cant. Im fortunate to be able to pay a little more bit I genuinally feel bad for many of the fans. It would be great to have a new stadium with all the amenities- my fear is we end up with psl’s and raised cost across the board from parking to bag of peanuts. 

[Augie]

I remember picking out seats and the first time inside the current stadium, but I was fairly young. I don’t remember any angst about increasing costs. Did I miss that, or was it less of a thing? Like....anything to get out of the Rockpile? I know a lot has changed since then, but.....

[BullBuchanan]

11 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yours is a tired, outdated take from circa 1982. Things have changed in the last ten years or so, and continue to improve. Also, the stadium thing isn’t about selling more tickets. It’s about increasing revenue and generating new revenue streams. That’s hard to do with a subpar stadium in a cold climate with an entrenched cut-rate pricing schedule. How do you make a substantial price increase for the same cold, bare bones seat? How do you entice the more deep pocketed fan who stays away due to cold weather and a somewhat out of control stadium environment ? As always in sports, winning is far from guaranteed yet money needs to be made. The majority of the league misses the playoffs in any given year. 

Seriously, even at the current bargain basement prices, the average man/ woman is hardly the target market for a pure luxury entertainment product like NFL football games. The current stadium is only about 72,000. A new facility should be around 65000 or so to create demand. 

They aren't squeezing that much more money out of the Buffalo market. It simply isn't there. Stadiums also tend to make really ***** venues for other types of events. I saw George Strait at the Arena, and while the performance was great, the experience was pretty terrible. They'd be better served upgrading there for big events, and leaving the stadium alone. I'm also a hard-line no dome guy. I think it's detrimental to the game and the fan experience, but you probably know that already. 

[BullBuchanan]

14 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Good take 30 years ago, not so much any more. The people moving into are young and tech savvy and future Bills games attendees. A new covered stadium downtown will still be affordable. It’s going to be a convention center/football stadium/concert/special event venue. A place that generates money more than 8 times a year.

They already have the arena for that and a convention center. The only real value add would be stadium concerts, and how many of those do you think the Buffalo market can attract and sell out? It's a small city with average salaries 50% or lower of larger cities.

Buffalo can't even support local live music or comedy to a sustainable degree, what problem does Taylor Swift solve? The area needs more employers with a lot more six figure jobs if anyone is going to win on a new stadium.

[RiotAct]

11 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

In my humble prediction, Pegula will throw his dick on the table, along with the entire cost of a new/refurbished stadium, and say "suck it". I see that level of no phux given. That is what a badadlss would do, no? T&K P are badasses, so this is what I expect.

if it was Terry doing the talking, it would be more like “uhhh...errrr....uhmm... s-s-suck it”.

[Zerovoltz]

My unsolicited two cents.

 

I don't claim to know anything about the stadium in Buffalo, the politics of the city, county or state.  I don't know what motivates the Pegulas etc....but I would say that having read through the thread....the zoomed in view about the local issues of it all are what is being discussed.....and that matters..but consider this.

 

The NFL revenue model isn't really based all that much these days on "local" revenue.  The big money is the TV deals.  ....When you look at the NFL TV data in the United States...it is a mature market.  Cities that do not have a local team, have practically the same viewership as towns and cities that do have one.  The NFL gains NOTHING from a TV viewer stand point just because a team moves.  You could move the Bills to Portland Oregon for example...and you might get a small bump in TV viewers in that area...but they've already been watching.  There isn't a spot on the US map where you can put a team today, right now, and make any sort of impact on TV viewership.  From this standpoint, Buffalo is VERY SAFE....it's a good market, with good fans that support the team.  There is no more empty LA sitting out there anymore for the owners to ponder about...

 

The problem for Buffalo though is in fact TV viewers...and I don't mean local, Western New York viewers.  The NFL has got about as big a domestic audience as it can get.  To increase revenues in a major way, they need to expand internationally.  We've all known for a long time they've been looking at London.

 

Stay with me here.....so keep this in mind as well....if the leauge expands, they have to divide the same TV revenues they get now, with more teams..that makes each slice of the same pie, a little smaller for all the owners.  What they would like to do, in order to maximize revenues for the existing owners and share less of it with new owners...is instead of expansion to international markets...they are going to want to move a couple of existing franchises......keep in mind..NFL viewership in the US is practically the same in towns with teams, as opposed to towns without them...you don't lose significant numbers of viewers if you move the Jags to London for example.  ....but you GAIN a TON of new international viewers and TV rights over there....big addition of revenue.

 

Now...the way this could affect Buffalo is that the NFL, in their quest for TV MONEY (not the small fries of local stadium revenues) ....could view the Bills as a potential franchise to move to an international destination......including Toronto, even thought the exhibitions and regular season games there were flops.....the NFL and certainly a good many willing businessmen, would view the CANADIAN TV market as something worthwhile to expand into.  I've read some studies that show Toronto has enough NFL fans to make it work....and just because the Bills weren't supported, doesn't suggest it would fail....rather, they want their own team to root for...and just as most of the nation of Canadas baseball fans follow the Blue Jays....and the NBA fans in Canada are Raptors fans....they expect the same of a lone Canadian NFL team.....you don't just get Toronto...you get a good portion of the whole of Canada.......same with Mexico.

 

It would not surprise me that at some point in the next 10 years, the NFL identifies up to 3, but most likely just 2 existing franchises to move to London and Toronto.  I'm not saying that it is a given that it's the Bills, but just something to consider.  

 

The existing 32 owners could then expect huge new revenue streams, while keeping the streams from domestic markets in tact...AND not having to share those new revenues with an expanded pool of owners.

 

 

...and also...Arrowhead..while old, was very well designed, and has been successfully renovated/updated over the years.  It produces revenues at a decent clip, and they have a good lease with the county to where the Chiefs control concerts/events there.  There isn't much clammoring for a new stadium in KC because the existing structure is fulfilling.....or rather filling, the owners wallet.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

My unsolicited two cents.

 

I don't claim to know anything about the stadium in Buffalo, the politics of the city, county or state.  I don't know what motivates the Pegulas etc....but I would say that having read through the thread....the zoomed in view about the local issues of it all are what is being discussed.....and that matters..but consider this.

 

The NFL revenue model isn't really based all that much these days on "local" revenue.  The big money is the TV deals.  ....When you look at the NFL TV data in the United States...it is a mature market.  Cities that do not have a local team, have practically the same viewership as towns and cities that do have one.  The NFL gains NOTHING from a TV viewer stand point just because a team moves.  You could move the Bills to Portland Oregon for example...and you might get a small bump in TV viewers in that area...but they've already been watching.  There isn't a spot on the US map where you can put a team today, right now, and make any sort of impact on TV viewership.  From this standpoint, Buffalo is VERY SAFE....it's a good market, with good fans that support the team.  There is no more empty LA sitting out there anymore for the owners to ponder about...

 

The problem for Buffalo though is in fact TV viewers...and I don't mean local, Western New York viewers.  The NFL has got about as big a domestic audience as it can get.  To increase revenues in a major way, they need to expand internationally.  We've all known for a long time they've been looking at London.

 

Stay with me here.....so keep this in mind as well....if the leauge expands, they have to divide the same TV revenues they get now, with more teams..that makes each slice of the same pie, a little smaller for all the owners.  What they would like to do, in order to maximize revenues for the existing owners and share less of it with new owners...is instead of expansion to international markets...they are going to want to move a couple of existing franchises......keep in mind..NFL viewership in the US is practically the same in towns with teams, as opposed to towns without them...you don't lose significant numbers of viewers if you move the Jags to London for example.  ....but you GAIN a TON of new international viewers and TV rights over there....big addition of revenue.

 

Now...the way this could affect Buffalo is that the NFL, in their quest for TV MONEY (not the small fries of local stadium revenues) ....could view the Bills as a potential franchise to move to an international destination......including Toronto, even thought the exhibitions and regular season games there were flops.....the NFL and certainly a good many willing businessmen, would view the CANADIAN TV market as something worthwhile to expand into.  I've read some studies that show Toronto has enough NFL fans to make it work....and just because the Bills weren't supported, doesn't suggest it would fail....rather, they want their own team to root for...and just as most of the nation of Canadas baseball fans follow the Blue Jays....and the NBA fans in Canada are Raptors fans....they expect the same of a lone Canadian NFL team.....you don't just get Toronto...you get a good portion of the whole of Canada.......same with Mexico.

 

It would not surprise me that at some point in the next 10 years, the NFL identifies up to 3, but most likely just 2 existing franchises to move to London and Toronto.  I'm not saying that it is a given that it's the Bills, but just something to consider.  

 

The existing 32 owners could then expect huge new revenue streams, while keeping the streams from domestic markets in tact...AND not having to share those new revenues with an expanded pool of owners.

 

 

...and also...Arrowhead..while old, was very well designed, and has been successfully renovated/updated over the years.  It produces revenues at a decent clip, and they have a good lease with the county to where the Chiefs control concerts/events there.  There isn't much clammoring for a new stadium in KC because the existing structure is fulfilling.....or rather filling, the owners wallet.

Agreed on all counts. Add Soldier Field and Lambeau to the list.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Agreed on all counts. Add Soldier Field and Lambeau to the list.

 

Don't add Soldier Field because it wasn't a renovation. It's a totally new stadium that kept the old facade.

[GG]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

While I'm sure Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft would rather the Bills not be in the league, I think Roger Goodell just wants to feel that the Bills are making an effort to increase revenues, even if we will always be at the bottom of the revenue ladder.

 

That's a ridiculous take.   Jones's & Kraft's views are identical to Goodell's.

[Mr. WEO]

22 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yours is a tired, outdated take from circa 1982. Things have changed in the last ten years or so, and continue to improve. Also, the stadium thing isn’t about selling more tickets. It’s about increasing revenue and generating new revenue streams. That’s hard to do with a subpar stadium in a cold climate with an entrenched cut-rate pricing schedule. How do you make a substantial price increase for the same cold, bare bones seat? How do you entice the more deep pocketed fan who stays away due to cold weather and a somewhat out of control stadium environment ? As always in sports, winning is far from guaranteed yet money needs to be made. The majority of the league misses the playoffs in any given year. 

Seriously, even at the current bargain basement prices, the average man/ woman is hardly the target market for a pure luxury entertainment product like NFL football games. The current stadium is only about 72,000. A new facility should be around 65000 or so to create demand. 

 

The majority of Bills home games are not played in frigid weather.

 

There is a practical limit to which the ticket prices even in a new stadium can be raised to in that town. 

 

Corporate revenue is extremely limited.

 

38 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's a ridiculous take.   Jones's & Kraft's views are identical to Goodell's.

 

All the owners have the same view.  None of them wish the lowest revenue teams to be out of the league.

 

You're right, it was a totally ridiculous take though.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

That's a ridiculous take.   Jones's & Kraft's views are identical to Goodell's.

 

I think Goodell is more moderate than those two but they do exert a lot of influence on him.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I think Goodell is more moderate than those two but they do exert a lot of influence on him.

 

Don't let your personal dislike of Jones & Kraft get in the way of facts.  Neither of them have disparaged the way the Bills have been run since Pegulas took over the franchise.   

 

Weo is correct, every owner would like the Bills to be a greater contributor to the overall pie.

[SoCal Deek]

I didn't think the stadium revenue had much at all to do with the overall economic picture of the NFL. These palaces are mostly to stroke the ego of the Billionaire Owners club.  Nobody wants to show up at the Country Club in a Chevy Vega!  With that said, I have no problem with building them.  Let's not pretend they have an impact on profitability.