Levy/Kelly ranked 8th Coach/QB duo

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Anytime we try to compare players across the generations, don't we always hear the catcalls from the viewing gallery that football is radically different every 10-20 years? Wouldn't it be more appropriate then, to have top 10 lists limited by decade instead? That way your comparison control groupings are playing by the same rules, philosophies, etc.?  

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Because traditionally we are so good against Bill Belichick defenses?

 

Hindsight being 20/20 and if I may paraphrase the saying, that was Bill Belichick being Bill Belichick before anyone knew he would be Bill Belichick.

 

 

Maybe, but more than that it was Walt Corey being Walt Corey.  His horrendous 3rd down defense allowed the Giants to convert 56% of their 3rd downs that day.

 

Fifty. Six. Percent.

 

Let's not even discuss the atrocities that happened on their final TD drive with Mark Bavarro and Mark Ingram recorded career-best YAC moments on 3rd downs.

 

Yes, the Bills were averaging 6+ yards/carry and should've run the ball more, but they did average 1 point per minute of possession that game.  That's pretty darn good.

[RoyBatty is alive]

11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I didn’t see it but I’d like to take a shot (in no particular order at the 10). 

 

Brady / BB

Montana / Walsh

Elway / Shanahan

Bradshaw / Knoll

Marino / Shula

Kelly / Levy

Brees / Payton 

Coryell / Fouts

Favre / Holmgren

Manning / Dungy

 

How did I do?

 

 

 

 

Pretty good, not sure i would include Shannhan and Elway, not sure they were togther many years.  How about Landy/Staubach or LOmbardi/Starr?

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe, but more than that it was Walt Corey being Walt Corey.  His horrendous 3rd down defense allowed the Giants to convert 56% of their 3rd downs that day.

 

Fifty. Six. Percent.

 

Let's not even discuss the atrocities that happened on their final TD drive with Mark Bavarro and Mark Ingram recorded career-best YAC moments on 3rd downs.

 

Yes, the Bills were averaging 6+ yards/carry and should've run the ball more, but they did average 1 point per minute of possession that game.  That's pretty darn good.

 

 

I remember 3rd and 13...oh man do I remember it.

[dollars 2 donuts]

51 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

If Marv, the OC, or anyone else on that coaching staff disagreed with how Kelly was running the O during the Bills' brief time on the field that night, then he could've been overruled in terms of the weight/emphasis of the playcalling at any time. This is armchair/Monday Morning quarterbacking at its best. Had the initial deep strike (61 yds) to Lofton resulted in a TD as opposed to getting bogged down for a FG, for example, then we're all still saving our XXV world champs memorabilia today. Let's not forget the Bills D could not get off the field on 3rd down (how many 3rd and longs did the G-men convert again in this game??) to save its collective behinds. The point is, it was a team loss,  a close one at that, no single man or coach to blame, imho.   

 

 

I know this is pure speculation, but can you imagine if they had run the set up play to the left hash mark instead of the right?  If Norwood did everything the exact sam (which he may not have) that kick might have sailed right down the middle of the uprights and we are buying him beers to this day.

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

You're an egg head

Humpty Dumpty.  Troll which fell off wall and we got the egg on face.

59 minutes ago, HT02 said:

Shula/Marino and Dungy/Manning ahead of Johnson/Aikman?  You could easily make the case that Johnson/Aikman belong ahead of Holmgren/Farve and Levy/Kelly.

 

Aikman only should be on if you count acting.

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shula and Marino? Oh come on! Marino went to one super bowl in his rookie year, lost it, and never went back. Talk about revisionist history. They weren’t even the best team in their Division for most of their tenure together.

 

You are showing uncommon common sense!

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, HT02 said:

Shula/Marino and Dungy/Manning ahead of Johnson/Aikman?  You could easily make the case that Johnson/Aikman belong ahead of Holmgren/Farve and Levy/Kelly.

 

 

Good point--especially Dungy over Jimmy Johnson.

 

Johnson is one of the most underrated HC's ever, I think.  He built and coached multi-SB winning Dallas teams

 

Dungy was probably the most overrated ever.

[US Egg]

Lot of Marvaholics. I always thought it fell on the coach, like the blame and beating McDermott gets for things that go wrong. I don't disagree with that. 

 

Of course, McD isn't as lovable, warm and fuzzy as old Marv seems to be to so many.

Edited June 26, 2019 by I am the egg man

[Buffalo Boy]

4 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Why? Because the Bills offense was on the field for a whopping 19 minutes, due in large part to the defensive game plan of the Giants. 

Respectfully,

    The way you control the clock is with the run game or short passing game.

    The way you get off the field quicker is with a hurry up no huddle offense.

    I love Marv!!!!!!!!

    But, he should have told Kelly to stop calling his own number and grind out the clock on the ground. This would have forced the Giants to honor the run and given Kelly better opportunities down field.

[thebandit27]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Respectfully,

    The way you control the clock is with the run game or short passing game.

    The way you get off the field quicker is with a hurry up no huddle offense.

    I love Marv!!!!!!!!

    But, he should have told Kelly to stop calling his own number and grind out the clock on the ground. This would have forced the Giants to honor the run and given Kelly better opportunities down field.

 

I respectfully submit that the way you control the clock is to get first downs; it has nothing to do with running or passing.  Buffalo's problem wasn't getting off the field too fast on offense; it was that they couldn't stop the Giants on defense.  Like I said: 56% 3rd down conversion rate...that's sickening.

Edited June 26, 2019 by thebandit27

[row_33]

13 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

Any NFL coach worth his salt could have coached that Bills team....and won SB XXV.

 

they didn't win a game they weren't supposed to win

 

they lost some HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE one's they had no excuse in a million years losing

 

but Marv did a good job keeping the egos in check and having a consistently solid team on the field for 6 or so years, so that is rare and admirable

 

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe, but more than that it was Walt Corey being Walt Corey.  His horrendous 3rd down defense allowed the Giants to convert 56% of their 3rd downs that day.

 

Fifty. Six. Percent.

 

Let's not even discuss the atrocities that happened on their final TD drive with Mark Bavarro and Mark Ingram recorded career-best YAC moments on 3rd downs.

 

Yes, the Bills were averaging 6+ yards/carry and should've run the ball more, but they did average 1 point per minute of possession that game.  That's pretty darn good.

 

 

and they would have stopped a determined Bavaro.... how exactly???

 

 

[blacklabel]

13 hours ago, Logic said:

Riiiiiight.

I mean it's not like the greatest coach in the history of football was the defensive coordinator for the opposition and drew up a defensive gameplan so great that it's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame or anything. Any coach worth his salt could've beaten Parcells/Belichick that day! And while we're at it, it's not like Levy had the Bills in position to win the game on a 47-yard field goal or anything.

I'm all for listening to a reasonable "Marv was to blame" argument...but "any coach worth his salt" could've won? Really?!

 

There's plenty of blame to go around for that loss, but one of the biggest factors was their stubbornness to adjust to the fact that Belechick's game plan would've allowed Thurman Thomas to have a field day. I mean, he still kinda did, 135 yards on only 15 carries and a TD to take the lead in the 4th. But they wanted to keep throwing it even though the Giants were prepared for that. I get it, the quick-strike, no huddle, throw it all day type of game plan is what got them there but that day they should've just handed it to 34 all day and then take shots with the play action. I think they would've won by a solid margin if they'd done that.

[row_33]

13 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

There's plenty of blame to go around for that loss, but one of the biggest factors was their stubbornness to adjust to the fact that Belechick's game plan would've allowed Thurman Thomas to have a field day. I mean, he still kinda did, 135 yards on only 15 carries and a TD to take the lead in the 4th. But they wanted to keep throwing it even though the Giants were prepared for that. I get it, the quick-strike, no huddle, throw it all day type of game plan is what got them there but that day they should've just handed it to 34 all day and then take shots with the play action. I think they would've won by a solid margin if they'd done that.

 

the no huddle wasn't required to steamroll over the all-time most horrible useless AFC

 

a normal O with that lineup would have preserved Kelly's health for a few more prime years

 

 

[Buffalo Boy]

17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I respectfully submit that the way you control the clock is to get first downs; it has nothing to do with running or passing.  Buffalo's problem wasn't getting off the field too fast on offense; it was that they couldn't stop the Giants on defense.  Like I said: 56% 3rd down conversion rate...that's sickening.

    What was the team known as, Offensive or Defensive juggernaut?

    The O covered up the D’s pedestrian-ness all year.

     If Thurman has 10 more runs we have 4 extra minutes minimum Time of possession, 40 more yards minimum and Kelly or Thurman contribute at least 1 more TD.

     A coaches job is to coach and make adjustments depending on the path the game takes.

     Ever see the Pats run the ball 8 to 10 plays in a row, right down the field? I have.

      You think Billy B leaves all those DBs on the field if Thurman is doing that to them?

      Do you think Parcells lets him?

      I don’t. We didn’t expect to win it on D. Not one single Bills fan or coach did.

 

 

[row_33]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    What was the team known as, Offensive or Defensive juggernaut?

    The O covered up the D’s pedestrian-ness all year.

     If Thurman has 10 more runs we have 4 extra minutes minimum Time of possession, 40 more yards minimum and Kelly or Thurman contribute at least 1 more TD.

     A coaches job is to coach and make adjustments depending on the path the game takes.

     Ever see the Pats run the ball 8 to 10 plays in a row, right down the field? I have.

      You think Billy B leaves all those DBs on the field if Thurman is doing that to them?

      Do you think Parcells lets him?

      I don’t. We didn’t expect to win it on D. Not one single Bills fan or coach did.

 

 

 

so Parcells and Belichick absolutely stole a Super Bowl on the Bills, the Giants completely smothered "on paper" by the Bills...

 

 

[Never NEVER Give-up]

3 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

If Marv, the OC, or anyone else on that coaching staff disagreed with how Kelly was running the O during the Bills' brief time on the field that night, then he could've been overruled in terms of the weight/emphasis of the playcalling at any time. This is armchair/Monday Morning quarterbacking at its best. Had the initial deep strike (61 yds) to Lofton resulted in a TD as opposed to getting bogged down for a FG, for example, then we're all still saving our XXV world champs memorabilia today. Let's not forget the Bills D could not get off the field on 3rd down (how many 3rd and longs did the G-men convert again in this game??) to save its collective behinds. The point is, it was a team loss,  a close one at that, no single man or coach to blame, imho.   

Bills were 1 of 8 on 3rd Down.
G-men were 9 of 16.

[formerlyofCtown]

16 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

Any NFL coach worth his salt could have coached that Bills team....and won SB XXV.

I hate to agree with you on this but I do.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

Bills were 1 of 8 on 3rd Down.
G-men were 9 of 16.

The Bills scored their 1st TD on a drive where they never even had to convert a 3rd down, FWIW.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXV

"First Quarter
The contrast in strategies was evident during the first quarter. After forcing the Bills to punt on the opening drive of the game, the Giants consumed 6:15 off the clock by marching 58 yards in 10 plays to score on a 28-yard field goal from Matt Bahr. In that drive, New York ran five rushing plays and five passing plays. However, the Bills struck right back on their ensuing possession with a five-play, 66-yard drive that took 1:23 off the clock, including a tipped 61-yard completion from Kelly to wide receiver James Lofton that set up Scott Norwood's 23-yard field goal to tie the game 3–3.

After forcing the Giants to punt on their ensuing possession, the Bills' offensive strategy started to work to perfection. Kelly led the Bills on a 12-play, 80-yard scoring drive that consumed 4:27 and moved the ball so effectively that the team never faced a third down. Kelly completed six consecutive passes (four to Andre Reed) for 62 yards, and running back Don Smith capped it off with a one yard touchdown run to give Buffalo a 10–3 lead early in the second quarter. Smith's touchdown run was his only carry of the game and the last carry of his career. Reed's 5 first quarter receptions were a Super Bowl record." (emphasis supplied).

 

[vorpma]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Wasn’t the more on Kelly since called plays at the line?

It's McDonald's time; one happy meal to go!

17 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

Any NFL coach worth his salt could have coached that Bills team....and won SB XXV.

SOS, different day, from the same BSers!

55 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I hate to agree with you on this but I do.

Never mind the Giants, we should have won without showing up; do you really follow football?

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

I can only go in my lifetime:

 

1- Walsh/Montana

2- Landry/Staubach

3- Noll/Bradshaw- could be 2, but for a couple bizarre drops/catches (Jackie Smith, Lynn Swann) the 70's Cowboys were a better coached/QB'd team, but lost.  

4- Madden/Stabler- the most contemptible duo ever, and with good reason.  They are the figureheads of the most sterling antagonists the NFL will ever know.  And they were great. 

5- Walsh/Young-  the originators of the 'efficient' NFL offense.  

6- Shula/Marino- they were brutal.  Marino got nailed all the time... after he released the ball and hit Clayton or Duper.   It was insane how little he got sacked.  Jim Jensen was a frickin nightmare of an outlet receiver... Hello, Wee Welker... yes, Jim Jensen.  They were good

7- Reeves/Elway-  they were better than us in our prime, and better at quarterbacking than..

8- Belichik/Brady- They've won, and they've done it efficiently, and with great kicking and the amazing stupidity of their opponents.  

 

Don't forget the San Diego interception/return some years back. 

 

Belichik belongs at the top of this list in many ways, but Brady would've never survived the game that the upper QB's did.  He's weighted up by BB.  #8

9- Holmgren/Favre- you were dead at any given moment.  

10- Coryell/Fouts-  the absolutely most fantastic MR(s) Irrelevant the NFL produced!

 

 

 

... sorry to Grant/Tarkenton and Levy/Kelly.  always a bridesmaid....