vincec Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Gugny said: Odd that you chose to not bold, "Britt got hooked on painkillers when he suffered a football injury in high school." This is what's wrong with our society. No one wants to address the ROOT of the problem. I disagree. I think that people spend far too much time looking for and lamenting over a problem's "roots." Whether it's what someone did to you or your parents, how you grew up, where you grew up, some bad stroke of luck, a poor decision, ... whatever. Life is unfair. Everyone has problems. Everyone has to face adversity. It's how we choose to react to them in the present that determines how things will go in the future. Understanding the past can be helpful if it gives you an insight as to how you can react better now (like perhaps not prescribing painkillers so easily for injuries in the future), but using it as an excuse or a justification for anything is really counterproductive to improving situations. IMO, of course.
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Odd that you chose to not bold, "Britt got hooked on painkillers when he suffered a football injury in high school." This is what's wrong with our society. No one wants to address the ROOT of the problem. I don't think the injury was the root of the addiction alone. The court suggested it was the environment they were housed in as well. The judge said it best. Living in his parents "drug emporium" of a house that was searched and found to filled with prescription narcotics was had become an unstable place and the sons needed to get out of there. These kids were not busted in some pill house hovel...they were in their parents posh suburban home. This was happening while they were all under one roof. The older son said that, early on, he enjoyed being the spoiled rich kid who would go into poor neighborhoods to sell drugs. NO one is arguing the horrors of addiction, especially of a child. But saying it's a terrible and tragic disease doesn't mean one can NEVER question the family dynamics under which it developed (twice in this family). I don't think that's a controversial statement. Let me pose this question: would anyone here, given the scenario where 2 of your sons living at home and floundering with addiction and the law and you have millions in the bank, at some point say "I have to get my boys out of this life, out of this town---I'm devoting all of my time and energy to saving them starting now (say, after they were jailed even)"? Or would you say: "I've done all I can. This is a terrible disease. See you after work, guys"?
Gugny Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 Just now, Mr. WEO said: I don't think the injury was the root of the addiction alone. The court suggested it was the environment they were housed in as well. The judge said it best. Living in his parents "drug emporium" of a house that was searched and found to filled with prescription narcotics was had become an unstable place and the sons needed to get out of there. These kids were not busted in some pill house hovel...they were in their parents posh suburban home. This was happening while they were all under one roof. The older son said that, early on, he enjoyed being the spoiled rich kid who would go into poor neighborhoods to sell drugs. NO one is arguing the horrors of addiction, especially of a child. But saying it's a terrible and tragic disease doesn't mean one can NEVER question the family dynamics under which it developed (twice in this family). I don't think that's a controversial statement. Let me pose this question: would anyone here, given the scenario where 2 of your sons living at home and floundering with addiction and the law and you have millions in the bank, at some point say "I have to get my boys out of this life, out of this town---I'm devoting all of my time and energy to saving them starting now (say, after they were jailed even)"? Or would you say: "I've done all I can. This is a terrible disease. See you after work, guys"? A judge is not qualified to determine why someone he does not know has become a drug addict. He's actually just as qualified as the dumb schmuck who just lost his radio gig. As for the questions you posed, it's really easy to be an armchair/Monday morning quarterback and say, "well I would have done ....."
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gugny said: A judge is not qualified to determine why someone he does not know has become a drug addict. He's actually just as qualified as the dumb schmuck who just lost his radio gig. As for the questions you posed, it's really easy to be an armchair/Monday morning quarterback and say, "well I would have done ....." The judge wasnt determining why these guys became drug addict. Far from it. He's was commenting on the circumstances that ended in both of them, separately being in his court for drug related offenses and he made those comments after hearing all of the evidence brought forth in his court. The facts were as he described him. As a "judge" (and one who sees these cases innumerable times in a career), he is completely qualified to argue the obvious--and he did. He said the Reid's home was a disaster. A bad place for drug addict s to be living even with both parents under the roof with them. Questioning the judge's statements at this sentencing senseless. And, no, it's not easy at all. And the question really isn't Monday morning QB'ing. As I've asked it, it's answerable. Edited June 29, 2019 by Mr. WEO
Doc Brown Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 He could've easily made his point without bringing Reid's family tragedy into the discussion. I don't know if he should've been fired over it, but I disagree with those defending Keitzman. I encourage local media to be as critical of their teams as possible as long as they keep it within the parameters of football. 1
Mr. WEO Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Doc Brown said: He could've easily made his point without bringing Reid's family tragedy into the discussion. I don't know if he should've been fired over it, but I disagree with those defending Keitzman. I encourage local media to be as critical of their teams as possible as long as they keep it within the parameters of football. How? He was specifically linking the two: his perception that the way Reid dealt with his sons' behavioral issues is similar to his dealing with sociopaths on his roster (just keep playing football..) How does he make that point without mentioning the sons?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 22 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Sadly at least a couple like you describe. ...and my thoughts and prayers go out to the good folks my friend.......a parent losing a child still is incomprehensible for me...a close friend who has long since passed, outlived ALL THREE of his sons......one died tragically as a child when a playmate was playing with Daddy's gun shot through the bedroom door because they wouldn't let him in to play, another due to heavy drinking in his earlier years despite finally getting his life on track remarrying his ex-wife who divorced him due to drinking, and the 3rd who was shot down while in the Air Force....I could NOT even stoop low enough to wish such tragedy on this radio pig scum........
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 23 hours ago, Gugny said: Odd that you chose to not bold, "Britt got hooked on painkillers when he suffered a football injury in high school." This is what's wrong with our society. No one wants to address the ROOT of the problem. Agreed. I'll reiterate as a PSA something I posted this spring. My "hair stood straight up on my head" moment was reading this Washington Post article. A nugget: teens who received prescription opiods with wisdom tooth extraction were 15x more likely to be diagnosed with opiod abuse than teens who did not. Dentists are the most frequent prescribers of opiods for youth age 10-19. When our kid had her wisdoms extracted, the oral surgeon's staff really twisted our arms to fill the prescription "just in case". What kind of blue-meanie parent wouldn't want to be able to help a child crying in severe pain at 2 am by giving them something stronger than acetaminophen? Yet by so doing, we were putting her at risk for a severe, potentially fatal disease of drug addiction. And there are studies which suggest actually acetaminophen and ibuprofen work better!!!!! Similar scenarios for sports injuries. There has GOT to be a push from the AMA and the ADA to educate its member physicians and dentists, and to educate the public about the risks of requesting or filling these prescriptions. 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: How? He was specifically linking the two: his perception that the way Reid dealt with his sons' behavioral issues is similar to his dealing with sociopaths on his roster (just keep playing football..) How does he make that point without mentioning the sons? And my point is that since there is no available evidence that the way Reid dealt with his son's issues and the way he is dealing with problem players are the same, linking the two is a douche move. I notice you are not addressing the point made that whether or not Reid would agree that he was a bad parent (in the wake of his son's death) is not germaine to this 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Agreed. I'll reiterate as a PSA something I posted this spring. My "hair stood straight up on my head" moment was reading this Washington Post article. A nugget: teens who received prescription opiods with wisdom tooth extraction were 15x more likely to be diagnosed with opiod abuse than teens who did not. Dentists are the most frequent prescribers of opiods for youth age 10-19. When our kid had her wisdoms extracted, the oral surgeon's staff really twisted our arms to fill the prescription "just in case". What kind of blue-meanie parent wouldn't want to be able to help a child crying in severe pain at 2 am by giving them something stronger than acetaminophen? Yet by so doing, we were putting her at risk for a severe, potentially fatal disease of drug addiction. And there are studies which suggest actually acetaminophen and ibuprofen work better!!!!! Similar scenarios for sports injuries. There has GOT to be a push from the AMA and the ADA to educate its member physicians and dentists, and to educate the public about the risks of requesting or filling these prescriptions. And my point is that since there is no available evidence that the way Reid dealt with his son's issues and the way he is dealing with problem players are the same, linking the two is a douche move. I notice you are not addressing the point made that whether or not Reid would agree that he was a bad parent (in the wake of his son's death) is not germaine to this ...outside the purview of sports and OFF LIMITS period.....despite it being my opinion 'Hap, this radio pig's firing may lend some credence...........
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/29/2019 at 11:14 AM, Mr. WEO said: I'm going to disagree. Andy Reid had not one but 2 sons who served prison time for drug and/or gun charges. In fact, at Britt Reid's sentencing, the judge called Andy Reid's home, where both adult sons were living, a "drug emporium". This was all going on....in Andy Reid's house! "There isn't any structure there that this court can depend upon," Montgomery County Judge Steven O'Neill said before sentencing 22-year-old Britt Reid to up to 23 months in jail plus probation. "I'm saying this is a family in crisis," O'Neill said. Earlier Thursday, O'Neill sentenced 24-year-old Garrett Reid, a drug addict and dealer who said he got a thrill out of selling drugs in "the 'hood," to up to 23 months in jail for smashing into another motorist's car while high on heroin. O'Neill noted that searches of the Reid home found illegal and prescription drugs throughout the house. He said both boys had been overmedicated throughout much of their lives and that Britt got hooked on painkillers when he suffered a football injury in high school. While the judge was sympathetic to the parents, when Britt Reid says he did everything without his parents' knowledge, the judged "questioned that claim". Reid took a few weeks off and then he went right back to work in a job that demands all of his time away from a "family in crisis". So anyone feigning surprise that this topic was broached by some radio bro (i.e. brought up at all) in the context of that same HC tolerating players with bad behavior is ignoring the history here. Reid's parenting was publically discussed at both of his sons' arraignments by the judge who sentenced them both. Therefore, it can't be a forbidden topic just because no one has brought up in 12 years..... I would have to know a lot more about the specifics of the situation to agree that it's germaine and relevant to Reid's behavior as a football coach. I note that at the time frame of the article you quote, the sons were 22 and 24. Having known the parents of an adult addict child and what they went through, it can easily be the case that the parents are in a cleft stick at this point - they know that their kid is very likely abusing drugs or alcohol in their premises, they neither approve nor support this, but their options for dealing with it are extremely limited. They could kick the kid out and have them take their addiction to the street. That's about it. So they take a "don't ask" approach. Both can be true - the kids actually do stuff without the parents knowledge, but the parents could know more and choose not to because what can they do? Reid is not "parenting" at the point described in this article. He has "parented", his children have been legally adults for 4 and for 6 years. His options became much more limited the day they turned 18. If the kids were "overmedicated" as younger kids and that may have been the initiating factor of their addiction problem, as noted there is no shortage of physicians and trainers who will say that's the right and responsible thing to do - get your kid narcotic pain meds to help them cope with the pain of sports injuries. Been there, heard that. In any event, 5 years after the court interaction described above, Garrett Reid was found dead of a heroin overdose. So there are a bunch of implicit assumptions that have to be made here for your point to be valid: 1) The judge is correct that Reid's parenting whilst his kids were growing up (4 and 6 years before the article you post) was causally responsible for their addictions 2) Reid's parenting and his viewpoint about it have to have undergone no change between the point of this article, the point of his son's death 5 years later, and today 3) The "shock jock" is correct that Reid's parenting actions are similar to his handling of troubled players - a point where no evidence is offered (or ought to be available)
Mr. WEO Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Agreed. I'll reiterate as a PSA something I posted this spring. My "hair stood straight up on my head" moment was reading this Washington Post article. A nugget: teens who received prescription opiods with wisdom tooth extraction were 15x more likely to be diagnosed with opiod abuse than teens who did not. Dentists are the most frequent prescribers of opiods for youth age 10-19. When our kid had her wisdoms extracted, the oral surgeon's staff really twisted our arms to fill the prescription "just in case". What kind of blue-meanie parent wouldn't want to be able to help a child crying in severe pain at 2 am by giving them something stronger than acetaminophen? Yet by so doing, we were putting her at risk for a severe, potentially fatal disease of drug addiction. And there are studies which suggest actually acetaminophen and ibuprofen work better!!!!! Similar scenarios for sports injuries. There has GOT to be a push from the AMA and the ADA to educate its member physicians and dentists, and to educate the public about the risks of requesting or filling these prescriptions. And my point is that since there is no available evidence that the way Reid dealt with his son's issues and the way he is dealing with problem players are the same, linking the two is a douche move. I notice you are not addressing the point made that whether or not Reid would agree that he was a bad parent (in the wake of his son's death) is not germaine to this Physicians are aware of the risks and also of non-opioid alternatives. But the risk, for oxycontin as an example, of abuse is .0055 per 100,000 prescriptions. You can conclude it's a douche move, many have. I'm just saying it's not a question that can't be asked. And to answer your question, I bet in retrospect Reid (ANY PARENT) would look back at how his career, etc, could have been altered to have a better outcome for his TWO struggling children. So it is germaine to this topic. 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I would have to know a lot more about the specifics of the situation to agree that it's germaine and relevant to Reid's behavior as a football coach. I note that at the time frame of the article you quote, the sons were 22 and 24. Having known the parents of an adult addict child and what they went through, it can easily be the case that the parents are in a cleft stick at this point - they know that their kid is very likely abusing drugs or alcohol in their premises, they neither approve nor support this, but their options for dealing with it are extremely limited. They could kick the kid out and have them take their addiction to the street. That's about it. So they take a "don't ask" approach. Both can be true - the kids actually do stuff without the parents knowledge, but the parents could know more and choose not to because what can they do? Reid is not "parenting" at the point described in this article. He has "parented", his children have been legally adults for 4 and for 6 years. His options became much more limited the day they turned 18. If the kids were "overmedicated" as younger kids and that may have been the initiating factor of their addiction problem, as noted there is no shortage of physicians and trainers who will say that's the right and responsible thing to do - get your kid narcotic pain meds to help them cope with the pain of sports injuries. Been there, heard that. In any event, 5 years after the court interaction described above, Garrett Reid was found dead of a heroin overdose. So there are a bunch of implicit assumptions that have to be made here for your point to be valid: 1) The judge is correct that Reid's parenting whilst his kids were growing up (4 and 6 years before the article you post) was causally responsible for their addictions 2) Reid's parenting and his viewpoint about it have to have undergone no change between the point of this article, the point of his son's death 5 years later, and today 3) The "shock jock" is correct that Reid's parenting actions are similar to his handling of troubled players - a point where no evidence is offered (or ought to be available) His adult sons living in his home needed parenting. This is clear. The shock jock was implying that the way Reid handled both topics was with status quo---keep coaching, keep racking up the wins. I'm just telling you that is the line he is drawing. Edited June 30, 2019 by Mr. WEO
Boca BIlls Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 You guys got what you wanted.... I guess that ends this conversation.
Augie Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: You guys got what you wanted.... I guess that ends this conversation. ?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: You guys got what you wanted.... I guess that ends this conversation. ...and what the hell does THAT mean?........
Augie Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...and what the hell does THAT mean?........ I posted about my buddy who’s Doc refused to give him, or ANYBODY, OxyContin because it was just too addictive and dangerous. Much better ways of dealing with pain. Quoted WEO’s .0055 per 100,000 stat. No idea where that came from. I then related how my dentist’s wife was in a car wreck and got some Oxy, and now her kids don’t have a mom. I think the stat is some made up BS, and if you know the people instead of the (bogus) stats, the whole thing looks very differently. That’s as deep as I went. Then I deleted it, because I don’t want to debate with a bunch of ignorant knuckleheads. That was on me...not @Boca BIlls (I think, but it’s a guess on my part). . Edited June 30, 2019 by Augie
JohnC Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: How? He was specifically linking the two: his perception that the way Reid dealt with his sons' behavioral issues is similar to his dealing with sociopaths on his roster (just keep playing football..) How does he make that point without mentioning the sons? He was linking the two issues (football and family) when it wasn't necessary to make the point that he was trying to make. He could have just stated that the coach doesn't have a good record in bringing in troubled players and rehabilitating them. Was it necessary to bring up the family history to make the football point? I don't believe that it was a worthy comparison. In general, bringing up one's personal history to illustrate a point regarding one's job performance is very ill-advised and inappropriate.
Gugny Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Augie said: I posted about my buddy who’s Doc refused to give him, or ANYBODY, OxyContin because it was just too addictive and dangerous. Much better ways of dealing with pain. Quoted WEO’s .0055 per 100,000 stat. No idea where that came from. I then related how my dentist’s wife was in a car wreck and got some Oxy, and now her kids don’t have a mom. I think the stat is some made up BS, and if you know the people instead of the (bogus) stats, the whole thing looks very differently. That’s as deep as I went. Then I deleted it, because I don’t want to debate with a bunch of ignorant knuckleheads. That was on me...not @Boca BIlls (I think, but it’s a guess on my part). . I was going to respond to your post, but decided against it for the same reason you deleted it. But ***** it. This is what I was going to respond with and what I am responding with ... Opioid drugs are highly addictive. Prescription variants are no safer than illicit heroin. In fact, because of its legality, overdose is far more common for drugs like OxyContin than it is for heroin. The National Association of Boards of Pharmacy reports 3,635 people died as the result of a heroin overdose in 2012 across 28 reporting states, compared to 9,869 people who died from prescription opioids. https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/oxycontin-addiction/#gref
Augie Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: I was going to respond to your post, but decided against it for the same reason you deleted it. But ***** it. This is what I was going to respond with and what I am responding with ... Opioid drugs are highly addictive. Prescription variants are no safer than illicit heroin. In fact, because of its legality, overdose is far more common for drugs like OxyContin than it is for heroin. The National Association of Boards of Pharmacy reports 3,635 people died as the result of a heroin overdose in 2012 across 28 reporting states, compared to 9,869 people who died from prescription opioids. https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/oxycontin-addiction/#gref I’m sure the numbers have exploded since 2012. As fentanyl is easier and more attractive to those “in the business”, things get even scarier. For those who don’t know, fentanyl is like 50 times stronger than heroin, but you never know what you’re getting. You can die from touching fentanyl. When you can’t get the pills, you do what you have to do. At one point about 85% of all OxyContin sold in the country was in Florida as laws allowed pill mills. People came from all over. OxyContin is the devil, and I agree with my buddy’s doctor.....it should be banned. It would be already if there wasn’t so much money involved. That’s the sad bottom line.
Gugny Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Augie said: I’m sure the numbers have exploded since 2012. As fentanyl is easier and more attractive to those “in the business”, things get even scarier. For those who don’t know, fentanyl is like 50 times stronger than heroin, but you never know what you’re getting. You can die from touching fentanyl. When you can’t get the pills, you do what you have to do. At one point about 85% of all OxyContin sold in the country was in Florida as laws allowed pill mills. People came from all over. OxyContin is the devil, and I agree with my buddy’s doctor.....it should be banned. It would be already if there wasn’t so much money involved. That’s the sad bottom line. I agree with everything you said, here. And it is VERY sad.
Mr. WEO Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Augie said: I posted about my buddy who’s Doc refused to give him, or ANYBODY, OxyContin because it was just too addictive and dangerous. Much better ways of dealing with pain. Quoted WEO’s .0055 per 100,000 stat. No idea where that came from. I then related how my dentist’s wife was in a car wreck and got some Oxy, and now her kids don’t have a mom. I think the stat is some made up BS, and if you know the people instead of the (bogus) stats, the whole thing looks very differently. That’s as deep as I went. Then I deleted it, because I don’t want to debate with a bunch of ignorant knuckleheads. That was on me...not @Boca BIlls (I think, but it’s a guess on my part). . https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7517-8-29 (there are others). No matter how tragic any one incident may be (and I am sympathetic to the personal suffering you have shared with us here regarding this subject), in medicine, we don't base decisions on anecdotes. We use data to guide our decisions. Convincing, new data will always be used to change practice. But stories can't... Every provider should seriously consider non-narcotic alternatives before prescribing. My personal opinion is that every provider (MD, NP, PA) should NOT be able to prescribe narcotics (those who have a DEA number of course). I think all patients should have to go to a "Narcotic Provider" if they need more than 5 pills prescribed, just like in NYS where they have to really have to go out of their way to find a medical marijuana prescriber. That may be impractical, but it have an immediate profound impact.
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