Mango Posted June 21, 2019 Author Posted June 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards According to NFL Next-gen stats, Allen has almost exactly the same aggressiveness % (13.8) as Brady does (13.9). With significantly less production
Tenhigh Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mango said: With significantly less production Well duh, is there anyone on this board that thinks Allen is better than Brady?
RoyBatty is alive Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 However the rate, calculate "aggressiveness" is totally worthless if they rank Allen in the bottom third. He is one of the most aggressive QBs i have every seen. How often does he do the dinking and dunking of Tom Brady, next to never.
transplantbillsfan Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mango said: With significantly less production The point is more that while that chart looks interesting, aggressiveness is relatively unrelated to passer rating. It was just a weird pairing. If anything, it proves that Allen has the right amount of aggressiveness for an NFL QB.
Mango Posted June 21, 2019 Author Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Tenhigh said: Well duh, is there anyone on this board that thinks Allen is better than Brady? Ok. Well he made less "aggressive" throws with less production than Driskel, Winston, Eli, Darnold, Trubisy, Dak, Flacco, Lamar Jackson, Keenum, Beathard, Foles, Watson, Fitz, Andy Dalton, Baker Mayfield. Deshaun Watson.
Tenhigh Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mango said: Ok. Well he made less "aggressive" throws with less production than Driskel, Winston, Eli, Darnold, Trubisy, Dak, Flacco, Lamar Jackson, Keenum, Beathard, Foles, Watson, Fitz, Andy Dalton, Baker Mayfield. Deshaun Watson. Yes, I saw the chart, same as you. Everyone knows that the kid has some work to do. He needs to do a better job of taking what the defense gives him. He needs more touch on his short throws. I don't know any single poster who thinks he's the best QB in the NFL.
GreggTX Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 Wow! Allen is in the bottom half for aggressiveness and he's STILL so far below the pack for pass efficiency. Someone remind me what he's good at again besides running.
LSHMEAB Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards According to NFL Next-gen stats, Allen has almost exactly the same aggressiveness % (13.8) as Brady does (13.9). Setting aside the fact that our receivers were not good, this is more an indication of Brady knowing exactly where to go with the football. This doesn't indicate Allen can't improve. It is an indication, at least to me, that he's got to get better at finding the correct target. I don't think that's some earth shattering critique. Someone mentioned this regarding Rodgers and Brady early in the thread, and it was spot on analysis. The greats only throw into tight windows when absolutely necessary because they're looking for the perfect option; a guy who's gotten lost in coverage with an opportunity to continue to run after the catch. 1
oldmanfan Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Setting aside the fact that our receivers were not good, this is more an indication of Brady knowing exactly where to go with the football. This doesn't indicate Allen can't improve. It is an indication, at least to me, that he's got to get better at finding the correct target. I don't think that's some earth shattering critique. Someone mentioned this regarding Rodgers and Brady early in the thread, and it was spot on analysis. The greats only throw into tight windows when absolutely necessary because they're looking for the perfect option; a guy who's gotten lost in coverage with an opportunity to continue to run after the catch. Good points. Also it can mean better WRs can make catches even with tight coverage. 1 1
CincyBillsFan Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Mango said: As the OP, I just thought it was an interesting single piece of data, worthy of an offseason talking point. I don't think it paints an entire picture, it is one small part of a much larger puzzle worth discussing. Also didn't mean to make this Allen specific. Sorry for the misunderstanding Mango. I wasn't trying to be critical of the post as it was an interesting graph. My remarks were aimed more at the people who are trying to use the data as another way to bash Allen. I was also pointing out that over the last few months there have been all sorts of analytics thrown around involving QB play. I just thought this one was especially subjective and open to interpretation and when added to all the others it seems like the "experts" are way over analyzing the rookie QB's. As Oldmanfan has pointed out the use of these statistical techniques is probably inappropriate given the variability for each NFL pass play and the small sample size for the young QB's. And I'm not talking just about the "aggressiveness" chart but pretty much all of the analytics work that has been presented in a slew of posts over the last couple of months. One way to look at it is say I was running a 6 month clinical trial to look at the effect of a test drug. I'm going to measure clinical outcomes as well as track the drug, it's metabolites and impact on say blood chemistry in the subjects. Now let's say that after only ONE DAY of treatment I made a bunch of measurements and ran the data through the most sophisticated analytics available and didn't see an effect. And then I took this data and went around telling everyone that the Drug doesn't work. I would be guilty of gross abuse of statistical analysis and my conclusion would not be justified. The Drug might work or it might not. And this is exactly what these analytics people are doing using various statistical techniques to asses these young QB's.
CincyBillsFan Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Good points. Also it can mean better WRs can make catches even with tight coverage. That WR from Detroit comes to mind as he was making catches with the DB draped all over him. In fact, the Bill's were one of the few teams I watched last year where I can only remember the receivers making exceptional catches in tight coverage once or twice for the ENTIRE SEASON. Other receivers on other teams seemed to make these catches multiple times per game. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 9:53 AM, Mango said: Ok. Well he made less "aggressive" throws with less production than Driskel, Winston, Eli, Darnold, Trubisy, Dak, Flacco, Lamar Jackson, Keenum, Beathard, Foles, Watson, Fitz, Andy Dalton, Baker Mayfield. Deshaun Watson. Largely I think this was also influenced by WRs who couldn’t get open or catch consistently and a sieve of an offensive line combined with Allen’s understanding of what he could do with his legs scrambling.
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