reddogblitz Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: As long as you realize that your Dilfer-is-an-all-time-great opinion renders your opinion about all things QB-related moot, then we're good. Thanks, thebandit27, oh great arbiter of football knowledge. Still, I'll take my chances. 1
thebandit27 Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Thanks, thebandit27, oh great arbiter of football knowledge. Still, I'll take my chances. I promise that it takes absolutely no football genius to know that Trent Dilfer was not a good NFL quarterback, let alone an all time great. I just think it's laughable that anyone with such an outlandish and indefensible claim would expect to be taken seriously in any QB discussion is all. I mean, you're a nice guy and all, but that take is just absurd
reddogblitz Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: you're a nice guy Thanks
thebandit27 Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Just now, reddogblitz said: Thanks You're welcome. I'm serious by the way--you're a good dude... who just happens to have have at least one insane opinion
Rocky Landing Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Thanks Just now, thebandit27 said: You're welcome. I'm serious by the way--you're a good dude... who just happens to have have at least one insane opinion Nice how this worked out! Gotta say, though, I think even Dilfer would agree that he ain’t an all time great.
reddogblitz Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Nice how this worked out! Gotta say, though, I think even Dilfer would agree that he ain’t an all time great. I like winners, what can I say?
Rocky Landing Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Just now, reddogblitz said: I like winners, what can I say? Can’t argue with that! 1
Ronin Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 5:01 PM, Nihilarian said: Just think, if the 2018 Bills defense can field the #2 overall and #1 pass defense with very little to no run game to control the clock and keep the defense off the field and fresh. That's the going narrative. I'm just curious tho, I hear this a lot but it seems as if people saying it haven't really looked at the basis for it. When we think of controlling the clock and keeping the defense off the field, two things come to mind, the number of plays run by both the offense and the defense and the associated time-of-possession. Right? Or am I missing something? The implication here is that we ranked near the worst in both. But what's the reality? Offensively the average number of plays run by all 32 teams was 1,007. We ran 1,008, a mere 1 off of average on the season, or 1/16th of a play/game. We ranked 19th in offensive plays run. But the D must've run way more than most of the other teams if they were that tuckered out, right? Defensively we ranked 5th which means that for 27 other teams their D was on the field for more plays than ours. Obviously we must have been on the field time wise more than most other teams. But nope, we ranked purely average with a 30:29 min time-of-possession. We ranked 9th in rushing yards and 6th in rushing attempts or rushing plays. I just ran an analysis of the ratio of offensive plays/team to defensive plays per team and we rank 11th, which is above average. We're one of 19 teams that ran more offensive plays than defensive ones and right in the middle of those 19. I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to explain to me how and why it is that everyone claims that our D should have been all worn out from having played more than most teams when the data suggests that that is in no way the case. I'm not trying to pick on you and you're hardly the only one that's said that or similar, but seriously, I'm not understanding why anyone believes that because, for example, none of the reasons you gave are valid. I only say that because at the end of the day, for proper and effective analysis one must start with valid premises. I don't think it will matter as many people will continue to say that, but now anyone having read this will know it's not true. So we must then press on for other reasons as to why the issues then.
Nihilarian Posted June 27, 2019 Posted June 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ronin said: When we think of controlling the clock and keeping the defense off the field, two things come to mind, the number of plays run by both the offense and the defense and the associated time-of-possession. Right? Or am I missing something? The implication here is that we ranked near the worst in both. But what's the reality? Offensively the average number of plays run by all 32 teams was 1,007. We ran 1,008, a mere 1 off of average on the season, or 1/16th of a play/game. We ranked 19th in offensive plays run. But the D must've run way more than most of the other teams if they were that tuckered out, right? Defensively we ranked 5th which means that for 27 other teams their D was on the field for more plays than ours. Obviously we must have been on the field time wise more than most other teams. But nope, we ranked purely average with a 30:29 min time-of-possession. We ranked 9th in rushing yards and 6th in rushing attempts or rushing plays. Lies, damned lies and statistics... You can't just look at the end of the season result stats to make any kind of realistic overall determination on time of possession or rushing yards. For example, to look at just the rushing yards for the 2018 Buffalo Bills leads some to believe that the run game in 2018 was doing okay because they finished the season 6th in rushing attempts, 9th in rushing yards and yet it was the QB who led the team in rushing. Which is something of an anomaly for almost all NFL teams. Josh Allen rushing stats, 12 games, 11 game starts, 89 attempts for 631 yards, 8 TDs. with a YPC AVG of 7.1. Most of those rushing yards came later in the season when the team went to more empty back sets to utilize Allen's running skill. The Baltimore Ravens had a running QB for almost half their season as he had 147 attempts for 695 yards rushing, 5 TDs with a 4.7 YPC AVG. Which was way more attempts and slightly more rushing yards and yet he was the second leading rusher on the Ravens. Lamar Jackson led the NFL with the most runs by a QB. Cam Newton and the Panthers were another team which had a running QB (second leading rusher on the team) who ran more times than Allen with 101 attempts, 488 yards, 4 TDs. Houston was another team with a running QB who was the third leading rusher on the Texans, 99 attempts for 551 yards, 5 TDs, a 5.6 YPC AVG. None of these teams had the QB as their leading rusher. The 2018 Buffalo Bills leading RB runner was LeSean McCoy with 13 GS, 161 attempts, 514 yards and 3 TDs, a 3.2 YPC AVG. Chris Ivory was the next Bills RB with 115 attempts, 385 yards, 1 TD with a 3.3 YPC AVG. Now for the time of possession. There were a lot of lopsided game for the Bills in 2018 as there were nearly six blowouts. Game one Ravens ToP Bills 24:46, Ravens 35:14. Game two, Chargers 33:02, Bills 26:58. Game four, Packers 34:37, Bills 25:23. Game seven, Colts 33:19, Bills 26.41. Game eight, NE 31:50, Bills 28:10. Game nine, Chicago 34;03, Bills 25:57. Now conversely the Bills also had some blowouts of their own in three of their six wins which negated the negative ToP. The Bills got the lead and the Bills defense overwhelmed the opposing offense Minn, 24:15, Bills 35:45. NY Jets 20:38, Bills 39:22 in a 41-10 blowout Dolphins 42-17, Miami 29:42, Bills 30:18. The simple facts are the 2018 Buffalo Bills were one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL by their running backs. Take away Allen's running stats and the Bills had 1357 rush yards with 7 TDs. (Allen had 8 rushing TDs) That puts them at 31st in the NFL only ahead of Arizona who had 1342 rushing yards. Just as the 2018 Buffalo Bills were ranked the #2 overall defense. There are holes in those stats as they were #2 in yards allowed, #18 in points allowed. They were 16th in rushing yards allowed and 25th in rushing TDs allowed. The Bills pass defense was so good in 2018 they literally shut down the super bowl winning QB in Tom Brady in week 15! Brady went 13 of 26 attempts for 126 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs! Alas, the Patriots ran 47 times for 273 yards, 2 TDs and owned the Bills in ToP 35:38 to 24:22. Now, this is what a good run game can do for a team to win a game and control the clock with the QB not doing so well. 1 hour ago, Ronin said: On 6/25/2019 at 5:01 PM, Nihilarian said: Just think, if the 2018 Bills defense can field the #2 overall and #1 pass defense with very little to no run game to control the clock and keep the defense off the field and fresh. This is why I said what I said.
Ronin Posted June 27, 2019 Posted June 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Lies, damned lies and statistics... You can't just look at the end of the season result stats to make any kind of realistic overall determination on time of possession or rushing yards. For example, to look at just the rushing yards for the 2018 Buffalo Bills leads some to believe that the run game in 2018 was doing okay because they finished the season 6th in rushing attempts, 9th in rushing yards and yet it was the QB who led the team in rushing. Which is something of an anomaly for almost all NFL teams. Josh Allen rushing stats, 12 games, 11 game starts, 89 attempts for 631 yards, 8 TDs. with a YPC AVG of 7.1. Most of those rushing yards came later in the season when the team went to more empty back sets to utilize Allen's running skill. The Baltimore Ravens had a running QB for almost half their season as he had 147 attempts for 695 yards rushing, 5 TDs with a 4.7 YPC AVG. Which was way more attempts and slightly more rushing yards and yet he was the second leading rusher on the Ravens. Lamar Jackson led the NFL with the most runs by a QB. Cam Newton and the Panthers were another team which had a running QB (second leading rusher on the team) who ran more times than Allen with 101 attempts, 488 yards, 4 TDs. Houston was another team with a running QB who was the third leading rusher on the Texans, 99 attempts for 551 yards, 5 TDs, a 5.6 YPC AVG. None of these teams had the QB as their leading rusher. The 2018 Buffalo Bills leading RB runner was LeSean McCoy with 13 GS, 161 attempts, 514 yards and 3 TDs, a 3.2 YPC AVG. Chris Ivory was the next Bills RB with 115 attempts, 385 yards, 1 TD with a 3.3 YPC AVG. Now for the time of possession. There were a lot of lopsided game for the Bills in 2018 as there were nearly six blowouts. Game one Ravens ToP Bills 24:46, Ravens 35:14. Game two, Chargers 33:02, Bills 26:58. Game four, Packers 34:37, Bills 25:23. Game seven, Colts 33:19, Bills 26.41. Game eight, NE 31:50, Bills 28:10. Game nine, Chicago 34;03, Bills 25:57. Now conversely the Bills also had some blowouts of their own in three of their six wins which negated the negative ToP. The Bills got the lead and the Bills defense overwhelmed the opposing offense Minn, 24:15, Bills 35:45. NY Jets 20:38, Bills 39:22 in a 41-10 blowout Dolphins 42-17, Miami 29:42, Bills 30:18. The simple facts are the 2018 Buffalo Bills were one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL by their running backs. Take away Allen's running stats and the Bills had 1357 rush yards with 7 TDs. (Allen had 8 rushing TDs) That puts them at 31st in the NFL only ahead of Arizona who had 1342 rushing yards. Just as the 2018 Buffalo Bills were ranked the #2 overall defense. There are holes in those stats as they were #2 in yards allowed, #18 in points allowed. They were 16th in rushing yards allowed and 25th in rushing TDs allowed. The Bills pass defense was so good in 2018 they literally shut down the super bowl winning QB in Tom Brady in week 15! Brady went 13 of 26 attempts for 126 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs! Alas, the Patriots ran 47 times for 273 yards, 2 TDs and owned the Bills in ToP 35:38 to 24:22. Now, this is what a good run game can do for a team to win a game and control the clock with the QB not doing so well. This is why I said what I said. That's good humor, but if you're really serious, then where does consistency fit into your analysis. Good luck with that one.
Nihilarian Posted June 27, 2019 Posted June 27, 2019 46 minutes ago, Ronin said: That's good humor, but if you're really serious, then where does consistency fit into your analysis. Good luck with that one. What on earth are you talking about? I don't speak cryptic or troll! You made an analysis based on end of season stats which were slanted due to different games on different days. 3 hours ago, Ronin said: I only say that because at the end of the day, for proper and effective analysis one must start with valid premises. Talk about good humor...
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