John Adams Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Does the church want a conservative Pope, or are they going to want someone more liberal? 295390[/snapback] Did you see that JPII appointed all but 2 cardinals. I'd expect a pope in his image. Plus, the conservative base in Central America, Asia, and Africa is the new strength of the Church. It would be surprising to see it cater to the more liberal Catholics in Europe and America, which are in stasis or decline, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Did you see that JPII appointed all but 2 cardinals. I'd expect a pope in his image. Plus, the conservative base in Central America, Asia, and Africa is the new strength of the Church. It would be surprising to see it cater to the more liberal Catholics in Europe and America, which are in stasis or decline, don't you think? 295396[/snapback] I haven't followed the workings of the Catholic church, so I had no idea which way they would go or how many Cardinals were appointed by JPII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Does the church want a conservative Pope, or are they going to want someone more liberal? 295390[/snapback] My opinion. I think we will see a very conservative Pope who will take a very hard line on abortion, divorce and improper advances taking by church officials. I think some very well known Catholic politicians may have a reality check trying to play both sides of the fence, trying to get the Catholic vote and still say they are for all the other "liberal" causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 My opinion. I think we will see a very conservative Pope who will take a very hard line on abortion, divorce and improper advances taking by church officials. I think some very well known Catholic politicians may have a reality check trying to play both sides of the fence, trying to get the Catholic vote and still say they are for all the other "liberal" causes. 295405[/snapback] You're prolly right on the Conservative thing. The Americans and Europeans who are pining away for a more liberal pope are nuts. The Church doesn't change much, and when it does, it changes slowly. There's little reason to change now. The media hints at change are, IMO, wishful thinking by those authors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 My opinion. I think we will see a very conservative Pope who will take a very hard line on abortion, divorce and improper advances taking by church officials. I think some very well known Catholic politicians may have a reality check trying to play both sides of the fence, trying to get the Catholic vote and still say they are for all the other "liberal" causes. 295405[/snapback] Do you think that a tough stand on divorce will help retain catholics or drive them away? With the prevelence of divorce in today's society, a tough stance may drive people away from the church. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Do you think that a tough stand on divorce will help retain catholics or drive them away? With the prevelence of divorce in today's society, a tough stance may drive people away from the church. What do you think? 295415[/snapback] I think it is needed. Too many folks IMHO take the easy way out and don't consider the consequences. If the belief within the Church is divorce and adultery and sins why does a parish ignoring it make it right. I think the stance is already there by parishes here just haven't done what they were supposed to based on guidance from Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I think it is needed. Too many folks IMHO take the easy way out and don't consider the consequences. If the belief within the Church is divorce and adultery and sins why does a parish ignoring it make it right. I think the stance is already there by parishes here just haven't done what they were supposed to based on guidance from Rome. 295424[/snapback] I agree that some (not all) people are taking the easy way out. The problem is since people have been able to do it (and the frequency seems to be increasing), can the church get a hold of the problem and take care of it without driving people away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I agree that some (not all) people are taking the easy way out. The problem is since people have been able to do it (and the frequency seems to be increasing), can the church get a hold of the problem and take care of it without driving people away? 295431[/snapback] It isn't politics. The Church is not a beauty contest. You either believe, follow the rules and go to Heaven. Or you take your chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 It isn't politics. The Church is not a beauty contest. You either believe, follow the rules and go to Heaven. Or you take your chances. 295432[/snapback] Would you agree that, interpretation of those rules can be political? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Would you agree that, interpretation of those rules can be political? 295462[/snapback] Nope. I believe the Church has rules, and you either abide or you don't. You can ask for forgiveness, and depending on the situation can be absolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 It isn't politics. The Church is not a beauty contest. You either believe, follow the rules and go to Heaven. Or you take your chances. 295432[/snapback] Funny. I agree with you. I don't agree with the Church, but your reasoning makes sense to me. I hear so many disenchanted Catholics complain about the Church. I always say the same thing: if it's that bad, get out. Ken- divorce rates in the U.S. have been declining for 20 years since their peak in the 70s. It's a statistic you don't hear reported that much, but it's true. (Divorce rates, as you may recall from an earlier discussion on this board, are very high in the red states as compared with the blue, which defies easy explanation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Ken- divorce rates in the U.S. have been declining for 20 years since their peak in the 70s. It's a statistic you don't hear reported that much, but it's true. 295471[/snapback] I did not know the trends, just that it still is kinda high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Would you agree that, interpretation of those rules can be political? 295462[/snapback] I think the Church is pretty clear on a lot of things. Abortion is murder and will get you sent to hell. Divorce is a sin that may get you sent to hell. Masturbation is a sin and if you go to hell for doing it, heaven's a lonely place.. "Pulling the plug" is a sin that will get you shipped to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nope. I believe the Church has rules, and you either abide or you don't. You can ask for forgiveness, and depending on the situation can be absolved. 295470[/snapback] That's why there is confession. Anybody, In my opinion, that says they abide by all the Catholic rules is lying to themselves. The number of people that do, I'm sure is minute in comparison to the total number of Catholics in the world. With all that being said, I still consider myself a good Catholic, And I don't obey all the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I think the Church is pretty clear on a lot of things. Abortion is murder and will get you sent to hell. Divorce is a sin that may get you sent to hell. Masturbation is a sin and if you go to hell for doing it, heaven's a lonely place.. "Pulling the plug" is a sin that will get you shipped to hell. 295475[/snapback] Do you think they pulled the feeding tube from his Holy father prior to his death? BTW, this was not a sarcastic question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Do you think they pulled the feeding tube from his Holy father prior to his death? BTW, this was not a sarcastic question. 295484[/snapback] Absolutely not. No conspiracies. None of that. John Paul II believed in his suffering and wanted to live till his body wasn't able. I don't think for one second anyone pulled a tube or plug on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Do you think they pulled the feeding tube from his Holy father prior to his death? BTW, this was not a sarcastic question. 295484[/snapback] His feeding tube wasn't a permanent fixture like Schiavo's. I'm sure they pulled it, simply because they weren't feeding him at the moment of his death. Were it a permanent fixture...they wouldn't have pulled it, as per his express wishes. But hey...way to toss some crap around, comparing apples and oranges. I like your style. *SPLAT* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 That's why there is confession. Anybody, In my opinion, that says they abide by all the Catholic rules is lying to themselves. The number of people that do, I'm sure is minute in comparison to the total number of Catholics in the world. With all that being said, I still consider myself a good Catholic, And I don't obey all the rules. 295483[/snapback] I don't judge. It isn't my place to determine what is right or wrong. I am not perfect, far from it as a matter of fact. But in order to get forgiveness one must truely be sorry for their actions and must vow to not repeat them. If you go out, womenizing, robbing, etc... and then on your deathbed asking for forgiveness I think that person might be in trouble. But if one day you wake up and realize everything you are doing is wrong, then ask for forgivness and try to not do it again, I have been taught you should be okay. Noone is perfect. One just has to belive and try their best. With the emphasis on TRY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted April 4, 2005 Author Share Posted April 4, 2005 Speaking of heaven (and football?): Sitting behind a couple of nuns at a football game, three men decided to badger the nuns in effort to get them to move. In a very loud voice, the first guy said, "I think I'm going to move to Utah there are only 100 Catholics living there." The second guy spoke up and said,"I want to go to Montana, there are only 50 Catholics living there." The third guy spoke up and said,"I want to go to Idaho, there are only 25 Catholics living there." One of the nuns turned around and looked at the men and calmly said,"Why don't you go to hell, there aren't any Catholics there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I don't judge. It isn't my place to determine what is right or wrong. I am not perfect, far from it as a matter of fact. But in order to get forgiveness one must truely be sorry for their actions and must vow to not repeat them. If you go out, womenizing, robbing, etc... and then on your deathbed asking for forgiveness I think that person might be in trouble. But if one day you wake up and realize everything you are doing is wrong, then ask for forgivness and try to not do it again, I have been taught you should be okay. Noone is perfect. One just has to belive and try their best. With the emphasis on TRY. 295604[/snapback] Nice post Bill, I wasnt casting stones. I was looking for that kind of response. Thats how I look at it also. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts