Checking on the college stats of our WR's

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I think it's pretty simple.  The confidence he had in college didn't come over to the NFL.  

 

There's something just wrong with how he catches the ball.  Not every time but a lot.  He double clutches, has to catch the ball twice to secure it and sometimes has to trap the ball in his body and go down.  He doesn't ***** the ball out of the air consistantly and then head up field.  There's a delay - that to me looks like lack of confidence.  

 

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Good news is our FO isn't waiting around for any player.  Competition will either make a player better or they'll get passed by. 

 

 

 

Yeah this is a great post.  Thats my most frustrating part for me with Zay, he makes the catches too hard for some reason.  ShadyBilsFan was drooling over the over the shoulder tough catch he made in practice against air...yet the truth was, he grossly misplayed the ball and instead of being a routine simple catch he had to make a difficult one that would have a very low percentage in tight coverage and could have even resulted in a drop, tipped ball, or even a turnover.  

 

He has to stop that.  I do really love that Allen was unhappy with how Zay was running routes (out of Zays own mouth), pulled him aside and the Zay successfully adjusted and caught a TD strike doing it the way Allen wanted later in the same practice.  Thats a positive sign on both Zay and Allen.  Great that Allen is seeing that stuff already, and also great the Zay is able to take that coaching from Allen and execute it.  

 

No secret about I was critical about his first 2 years, but sincerely would love to see Zay prove my skepticism wrong and excel.  Im still skeptical he can hold off one of Brown or Foster.  Cole is locked in at slot we know, so Zay will have to keep either Brown or Foster from starting.  I just have a very hard time seeing him beat out Foster personally, and I also doubt they brought in Brown to be a reserve.  

 

That all being said, Zay had a nice start to OTA's.  But that was to be expected.  Zay and Foster were 100% going to have an edge in OTA's knowing the offense and playbook and were always going to be the two guys to get the most reps.  Interesting was that Ray Ray also had a strong OTA, so be interesting to see if he inserts himself into the thick of competition along with Foster, Brown, Zay, Cole, Duke, Sills, and Roberts.  

 

Cant wait for this battle to really get going.  One thing I have total confidence in...McD and Beane will treat this a true open competition and the best guys will make this team.  

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah this is a great post.  Thats my most frustrating part for me with Zay, he makes the catches too hard for some reason.  ShadyBilsFan was drooling over the over the shoulder tough catch he made in practice against air...yet the truth was, he grossly misplayed the ball and instead of being a routine simple catch he had to make a difficult one that would have a very low percentage in tight coverage and could have even resulted in a drop, tipped ball, or even a turnover.  

 

He has to stop that.  I do really love that Allen was unhappy with how Zay was running routes (out of Zays own mouth), pulled him aside and the Zay successfully adjusted and caught a TD strike doing it the way Allen wanted later in the same practice.  Thats a positive sign on both Zay and Allen.  Great that Allen is seeing that stuff already, and also great the Zay is able to take that coaching from Allen and execute it.  

 

No secret about I was critical about his first 2 years, but sincerely would love to see Zay prove my skepticism wrong and excel.  Im still skeptical he can hold off one of Brown or Foster.  Cole is locked in at slot we know, so Zay will have to keep either Brown or Foster from starting.  I just have a very hard time seeing him beat out Foster personally, and I also doubt they brought in Brown to be a reserve.  

 

That all being said, Zay had a nice start to OTA's.  But that was to be expected.  Zay and Foster were 100% going to have an edge in OTA's knowing the offense and playbook and were always going to be the two guys to get the most reps.  Interesting was that Ray Ray also had a strong OTA, so be interesting to see if he inserts himself into the thick of competition along with Foster, Brown, Zay, Cole, Duke, Sills, and Roberts.  

 

Cant wait for this battle to really get going.  One thing I have total confidence in...McD and Beane will treat this a true open competition and the best guys will make this team.  

A true open competition? Like the QB competition that landed Nate as the starter? 

 

Can’t wait.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, CommonCents said:

A true open competition? Like the QB competition that landed Nate as the starter? 

 

Can’t wait.

 

Wow, some of you need to come to terms the reality of what really happened in the QB competition last year.  

1. McD and Beane both publicly stated that the plan going into week 3 of preseason was to start Allen week 1.  When the OL damn near got him killed and they saw he wasn't ready yet to face that kind of pressure from a bad OL, they decided to hold him off from starting week 1.  
2. Nate had no trade value, and AJM did.  So instead of cutting one for nothing...they traded AJM for a miraculous 5th round pick..which I will add was used to get Cody Ford.  
3. Nate was only starting to give Allen more time to prepare to start.  Nate was NEVER at any point going to start very long for this team, he was a guy they hoped who could just hold it down long enough to get Allen better prepared to play.  
4. Allen split reps and started as the 3rd string QB entering camp.  

Time for everyone to let Nate starting week 1 go.  Nate starting gets pretty over exaggerated around here.  The only thing that was a mistake was not signing DA right when they traded AJM, and they even said they wish they had done that too.  Trying to keep Allen on the bench a little longer was smart after seeing the OL nearing get him killed in that third preseason game where he was also hobbled from the hits.  

Edited June 10, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[John from Riverside]

It is interesting that Robert Foster.....one of the LEAST productive college wise might be the glimmering hope for a number 1 wide receiver.....

 

Here is a guy who had injuries that basically derailed what should have been a college career that should have got him drafted in the first round......

 

Speed

Size

He has all of it

 

Just something for context........

[Coach Tuesday]

15 hours ago, White Linen said:

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Maybe the most frustrating Bill since... Biletnikof winner Josh Reed?  Totally agree with your take.  Zay seems mentally weak to me.  He attacks hotel lobbies but not the football.  Something is wrong with the guy and I look forward to the day he isn't being counted on to produce.  He probably is, too.  He seems like the type who will become far more successful once he isn't being featured.

[row_33]

16 hours ago, Bangarang said:

College stats are meaningless once you get to the NFL.

 

if it helps one's personal narrative they are very vital

 

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wow, some of you need to come to grips with the REALITY of what really happened in the QB competition last year.  

1. McD and Beane both publicly stated that the plan going into week 3 of preseason was to start Allen week 1.  When the OL damn near got him killed and they saw he wasn't ready yet to face that kind of pressure from a bad OL, they decided to hold him off from starting week 1.  
2. Nate had no trade value, and AJM did.  So instead of cutting one for nothing...they traded AJM for a miraculous 5th round pick..which I will add was used to get Cody Ford.  
3. Nate was only starting to give Allen more time to prepare to start.  Nate was NEVER at any point going to start very long for this team, he was a guy they hoped who could just hold it down long enough to get Allen better prepared to play.  
4. Allen split reps and started as the 3rd string QB entering camp.  

Time to let it go man...Nate starting gets so over exaggerated around here.  The only thing that was a mistake was not signing DA right when they traded AJM, and they even said they wish they had done that too.  Trying to keep Allen on the bench a little longer was smart after seeing the OL nearing get him killed in that third preseason game where he was also hobbled from the hits.  

No, some of us can love a football team without playing make believe. 

 

The same WR competition landed KB as a starter and Foster on the waiver wire. 

 

Beane and McD have made plenty of mistakes. I’m still happy with them because I’m a firm believer that they got their biggest decision right. Josh Allen. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

No, some of us can love a football team without playing make believe. 

 

The same WR competition landed KB as a starter and Foster on the waiver wire. 

 

Beane and McD have made plenty of mistakes. I’m still happy with them because I’m a firm believer that they got their biggest decision right. Josh Allen. 

 

 

 

Well I can agree with you on getting Allen.  But I don't see eye to eye with you on how you see last years "competitions" going.  Foster got open, but struggled tracking the ball and making catches.  Not hard to see why he was put on PS.  He responded to it too, greatly.  So pretty smart move by our FO and McD.  And of course KB was the starter, there was never any scenario where he wasnt going to open the season as the starter.  And he was leaner and in a contract year.  Then when he just couldn't get the job done, they cut him...another smart move.  

 

All good...go Bills!

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well I can agree with you on getting Allen.  But I don't see eye to eye with you on how you see last years "competitions" going.  Foster got open, but struggled tracking the ball and making catches.  Not hard to see why he was put on PS.  He responded to it too, greatly.  So pretty smart move by our FO and McD.  And of course KB was the starter, there was never any scenario where he wasnt going to open the season as the starter.  And he was leaner and in a contract year.  Then when he just couldn't get the job done, they cut him...another smart move.  

 

All good...go Bills!

I mean they traded for Benji after having first hand insight into the young man, that scares me. They cut Foster, that can never be portrayed as smart. That means they were willing to lose him before losing a handful of worse players. If you’re willing to say that was a smart move you are indirectly saying they failed to motivate him on their own. The best I can say with Foster is they got lucky.

 

I’m not trying to be confrontational. The story line for me this summer is can McD and Beane make the right choices for the 53. Much more talent this year, much harder choices. 

 

Go Bills.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Colt Brennan threw for like 12thousand yards at Hawaii 

 

should we sign him away from Costco?

 

 

...June Jones knew no offensive bounds...........

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

I mean they traded for Benji after having first hand insight into the young man, that scares me. They cut Foster, that can never be portrayed as smart. That means they were willing to lose him before losing a handful of worse players. If you’re willing to say that was a smart move you are indirectly saying they failed to motivate him on their own. The best I can say with Foster is they got lucky.

 

I’m not trying to be confrontational. The story line for me this summer is can McD and Beane make the right choices for the 53. Much more talent this year, much harder choices. 

 

Go Bills.

 

Its all good man, I am not trying to be either.  I get the skepticism, we just see the paths a bit different.  The only thing I get frustrated around is the how the Nate thing gets over blown and twisted outside of what both McD and Beane have literally said verbatim.  I guess I give them credit when they say something as they have been pretty true to their word over and over again.  

 

With KB, he was at least productive early before some injuries slowed him down.  And Beane only traded for him when the Bills were surprisingly in the playoff hunt mid season.  Had they not been, trade never happens.  So I dont hate on them for making that move as KB was a key part of why we snapped the 17 year streak as we dont make the playoffs without his play in the snow game alone.  Im thrilled Josh Allen is shouldering the playoff missed streak right now.  

 

What I love about Beane and McD is they dont make decisions out of ego, which is why they were able to cut KB knowing it looks bad on them after trading a 3rd for him the year before.  But they went with what was best for the team rather than drag a bad decision further.  

 

As far as last year goes though, they had to reset the deck and the benefits were reaped this offseason with all that cap space and draft assets.  So they couldn't fill everything out the way they wanted, so I dont hold the WR situation against them given they had little room to really do much.  They certainly sought out to add more talent this year and next draft is loaded with some blue chip WR prospects too.  

 

Cheers...go Bills!

[Ayjent]

Zay will be solid, but not spectacular at best and he hasn't been that yet.  He showed a couple of games where he could be a reliable target, but the difference between marginal NFL talent and good talent is consistency, not flashes.  I'm still not sold on him, but he did progress last year, and if he takes another step forward he is definitely a guy that could be a solid NFL player.  I think he is going to have to be better to get snaps, but the talk of him being a No. 1 in some of the articles seems misguided and overly optimistic.  The guy who was emerging as a No. 1 was Foster, but he still needs to show a lot more to win that title as well.  The guys they have a WR are okay, but there are no sure things as a bona fide No. 1 target who will get over 1000 yards.  The Bills may just have a collection of No. 2 through 4 options that start at any given time.  That's better than last year, but it's not a massive improvement unless Foster or Jones take big steps forward.

[Ronin]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:39 PM, ngbills said:

Your NCAA top 10 all time receiving yards...

 

1	Corey Davis*	5278	2013	2016	Western Michigan
2	Trevor Insley	5005	1996	1999	Nevada
3	Ryan Broyles*	4586	2008	2011	Oklahoma
4	Justin Hardy*	4541	2011	2014	East Carolina
5	Marcus Harris	4518	1993	1996	Wyoming
6	Patrick Edwards*	4507	2008	2011	Houston
7	James Washington*	4472	2014	2017	Oklahoma State
8	Rashaun Woods*	4414	2000	2003	Oklahoma State
9	Ryan Yarborough*	4374	1990	1993	Wyoming
10	Troy Edwards	4352	1996	1998	Louisiana Tech

 

Interesting.   The very first thing that our FO should have looked at was a list like that while having paid particular attention to Hardy, who preceded Jones at EC.  

 

Hardy's rookie season at EC was better than Jones' rookie season, and Hardy's other three seasons were all better than all but Jones' senior season in yards, and all were better than Jones in terms of TDs and YPC.  

 

Yet, with Ryan throwing the ball in Atlanta, Hardy's been purely a depth player.  I suspect he would have done much better on a team like ours which has been begging for good WRs, still, it's unlikely that he would be better than a depth WR, like Jones, regardless.  

 

Here's the thing, Hardy was a 4th/5th round prospect according to NFL.com's draft profile on him.  So frankly,  besides looking at Jones' senior season which was laden with garbage-time production, in a big way, with little TD production contrasted with the number of catches he had, translating to a TD every 20 receptions in his senior season, 1 TD every 17.3 overall, I have difficulty understanding why the draft profile difference between him and Hardy who logged one TD every 6 catches as a senior and 1 TD every 11 catches overall, with a better Yards-per-Reception in his last three seasons than Jones ever had there.  

 

It can only possibly be an overemphasis of his senior season, because his other three seasons were absolutely nothing to write home about.  

 

And frankly, Jones misses that list by 73 yards with 4,279.  

 

 

 

[Ronin]

8 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Zay will be solid, but not spectacular at best and he hasn't been that yet.  He showed a couple of games where he could be a reliable target, but the difference between marginal NFL talent and good talent is consistency, not flashes.  I'm still not sold on him, but he did progress last year, and if he takes another step forward he is definitely a guy that could be a solid NFL player.  I think he is going to have to be better to get snaps, but the talk of him being a No. 1 in some of the articles seems misguided and overly optimistic.  The guy who was emerging as a No. 1 was Foster, but he still needs to show a lot more to win that title as well.  The guys they have a WR are okay, but there are no sure things as a bona fide No. 1 target who will get over 1000 yards.  The Bills may just have a collection of No. 2 through 4 options that start at any given time.  That's better than last year, but it's not a massive improvement unless Foster or Jones take big steps forward.

 

Tremendously well summarized!!  

 

My concerns about Foster are that he was a big play or nothing and as any seasoned NFL fan should know, you can't routinely win with "big plays" being your primary weapon, to the contrary in fact.  

 

To start, two of his three biggest passes were thrown by Barkley.  

 

Otherwise, of his top-8 receptions, 6 were against really bad teams, the Jets, Jags, and Lions, 4, 5, and 6-win teams.  

 

In his best four games he averaged 4 catches for 103 yards and 1/2 TD, which is great production to say the least.  But in his other three games during that last 7-game stretch he averaged 3 catches for 33 yards.  

 

My single biggest concern tho is his injury issues.  He was plagued with injuries throughout college, so much so that the schtick on him is that he would have done much better if he hadn't been injured, but that's speculation to at least some extent.  Obviously he'd have done "better," but how much better.  But my concern is that again, he's injured.  Players that are constantly injured more often than not remain that way.  

 

To your point, it's difficult to be consistent when you're injured.  

 

Same with Morse, our biggest FA signing IMO, he's hurt now too also with a history as such.  Knox's status is also similar although he's not hurt yet.  Then there's Brown, arguably our second biggest FA signing, he too has a significant injury history.  Again, tough to be consistent when you're not on the field.  

 

[LSHMEAB]

On 6/9/2019 at 8:05 PM, White Linen said:

 

I think it's pretty simple.  The confidence he had in college didn't come over to the NFL.  

 

There's something just wrong with how he catches the ball.  Not every time but a lot.  He double clutches, has to catch the ball twice to secure it and sometimes has to trap the ball in his body and go down.  He doesn't ***** the ball out of the air consistantly and then head up field.  There's a delay - that to me looks like lack of confidence.  

 

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Good news is our FO isn't waiting around for any player.  Competition will either make a player better or they'll get passed by. 

 

 

This is it in a nutshell. He looked like he was having fun in college. At times, he appears to be intimidated in the NFL. He's got to ability to ***** the ball with regularity, but he's overthinking everything.

 

My hope is that with an "uneventful" offseason and an impressive new physique, he can get some of that confidence back. Some may view the physique thing as silly, but personal improvement could very well bring out the best in someone, especially when psychology seems to a factor. 

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

This is it in a nutshell. He looked like he was having fun in college. At times, he appears to be intimidated in the NFL. He's got to ability to ***** the ball with regularity, but he's overthinking everything.

 

My hope is that with an "uneventful" offseason and an impressive new physique, he can get some of that confidence back. Some may view the physique thing as silly, but personal improvement could very well bring out the best in someone, especially when psychology seems to a factor. 

 

My issue is his greatest opportunity was last year and he let it slip away.  I hoped he would be a Jarvis Landry type - where he's on a team with limited QB play but is just so good he still gets his.   

 

What I really like about Beane so far is he doesn't wait around for you.  In years past we'd just hope on top of hope until there wasn't anymore with a player.  Now it's perform or we bring others in that will. 

 

I don't think Zay is being written off or that we should but he's got a much harder road now.  Now he's got to find a way to get the ball with Cole, Brown and Foster.