Brian Gaine fired as Texans GM

[Ennjay]

10 hours ago, whatdrought said:

There are going to be teams that get remembered for wasting generational/historical talents by fielding crap football teams, and the Texans with JJ Watt are high on that list. We’ll see if they can capitilize on his renaissance, but I doubt it.

 

 

Browns and Joe Thomas might be top of the list. 

 

Off topic maybe but I've always felt sorry for Eric Moulds for the same reason.  On another team he might have made the HOF.

 

 

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

No.  Barry Sanders is at the top of that list.  Marino would be a close second.

 

Agreed on Sanders but I have a hard time having sympathy for Marino.  He didn't play on crap teams -- just teams that were stuck behind others that were better (usually the Bills), like Earl Campbell's Oilers were stuck behind some great Steeler teams.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Ennjay

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

..things are getting crowded at "the top".......we have the Jesters, Cards, perennial "Snyder's Deadskins" and now the Tex-UMS.....thinking the inaugural "Dysfunction Junction Organization Of The Year" trophy votes could be a tie..... presented at SB halftime.....

[transient]

8 hours ago, Ennjay said:

Agreed on Sanders but I have a hard time having sympathy for Marino.  He didn't play on crap teams -- just teams that were stuck behind others that were better (usually the Bills), like Earl Campbell's Oilers were stuck behind some great Steeler teams.

 

And unlike the Broncos at the end of Elway's career, the Dolphins with Marino never accepted that they needed a running game.

[BillsFanM.D.]

4 minutes ago, transient said:

 

And unlike the Broncos at the end of Elway's career, the Dolphins with Marino never accepted that they needed a running game.

 

they drafted a RB in the first round three times  during his career....and another one two years before he arrived.  They also drafted O line including Richmond Webb.  Broncos just had more success/luck in drafting.  I wouldn't say is was lacking as a priority for the Dolphins though.  

[LSHMEAB]

19 hours ago, whatdrought said:

There are going to be teams that get remembered for wasting generational/historical talents by fielding crap football teams, and the Texans with JJ Watt are high on that list. We’ll see if they can capitilize on his renaissance, but I doubt it.

 

 

Browns and Joe Thomas might be top of the list. 

I would say it's far worse in the case of Joe Thomas. Quite possibly the best LT of the last 15 years.

 

The Texans haven't been worldbeaters, but Watt is a household name because he puts up monster numbers and has a big personality.

 

Joe Thomas played a position strongly dependent on those around him, so he's a footnote in history to most.

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I would say it's far worse in the case of Joe Thomas. Quite possibly the best LT of the last 15 years.

 

The Texans haven't been worldbeaters, but Watt is a household name because he puts up monster numbers and has a big personality.

 

Joe Thomas played a position strongly dependent on those around him, so he's a footnote in history to most.

 

Plus, Watt still has a chance to get a ring. 

 

I was always curious why Thomas didn’t want a trade. 

[transient]

1 hour ago, BillsFanM.D. said:

 

they drafted a RB in the first round three times  during his career....and another one two years before he arrived.  They also drafted O line including Richmond Webb.  Broncos just had more success/luck in drafting.  I wouldn't say is was lacking as a priority for the Dolphins though.  

 

Serious question, did the RBs they drafted suck or did they just not effectively work them into the game plan? I’m working from memory here, but they always struck me as being willing to live and die by Marino’s arm. I don’t really remember them as a team that ever had a game plan that tried to establish the run. Contrast that with the balance the Bills had with Kelly under center (granted, with Thomas in the backfield). 

 

To further that point, I just looked on the Pro Football Reference site. Marino is 14th all time in average pass attempts per game, but he’s the only one of his era in the top 20 (unless you count Favre at 17 and/or Bledsoe at 12, since they overlapped the latter part of Marino’s career). The next from that era is Warren Moon at 24. Jim Kelly is all the way down at 45. 

[Ennjay]

1 hour ago, transient said:

 

Serious question, did the RBs they drafted suck or did they just not effectively work them into the game plan? I’m working from memory here, but they always struck me as being willing to live and die by Marino’s arm. I don’t really remember them as a team that ever had a game plan that tried to establish the run. Contrast that with the balance the Bills had with Kelly under center (granted, with Thomas in the backfield). 

 

To further that point, I just looked on the Pro Football Reference site. Marino is 14th all time in average pass attempts per game, but he’s the only one of his era in the top 20 (unless you count Favre at 17 and/or Bledsoe at 12, since they overlapped the latter part of Marino’s career). The next from that era is Warren Moon at 24. Jim Kelly is all the way down at 45. 

 

This is how I remember it too.  The Dolphins were always ready to scrap the running game, probably because Marino wanted to throw it.  Obviously that's what he was best at.

[BillsFanM.D.]

2 hours ago, transient said:

 

Serious question, did the RBs they drafted suck or did they just not effectively work them into the game plan? I’m working from memory here, but they always struck me as being willing to live and die by Marino’s arm. I don’t really remember them as a team that ever had a game plan that tried to establish the run. Contrast that with the balance the Bills had with Kelly under center (granted, with Thomas in the backfield). 

 

To further that point, I just looked on the Pro Football Reference site. Marino is 14th all time in average pass attempts per game, but he’s the only one of his era in the top 20 (unless you count Favre at 17 and/or Bledsoe at 12, since they overlapped the latter part of Marino’s career). The next from that era is Warren Moon at 24. Jim Kelly is all the way down at 45. 

 

 

To a certain degree they did.  Sammie Smith was a top ten pick and never lived up to that billing (Terrell Davis was a sixth round pick and became the best back in football).  The other guys were not memorable at all.  Also going off memory....I recall Sammie having a series of fumbles that cost the Dolphins big one season.  

 

There is no doubt that those Dolphins were pass heavy...but it also seemed to me that they were perpetually trying to establish...and then abandoning the run game.  To that point, Smith was the 'missing link' that was going to finally get Marino a ring.  Just never worked out.  

Edited June 9, 2019 by BillsFanM.D.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I would say it's far worse in the case of Joe Thomas. Quite possibly the best LT of the last 15 years.

 

The Texans haven't been worldbeaters, but Watt is a household name because he puts up monster numbers and has a big personality.

 

Joe Thomas played a position strongly dependent on those around him, so he's a footnote in history to most.

 

And the Texans in Watt's time have made the postseason plenty. They just haven't gone deep in it. That was not the case for Thomas. 

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I would say it's far worse in the case of Joe Thomas. Quite possibly the best LT of the last 15 years.

 

The Texans haven't been worldbeaters, but Watt is a household name because he puts up monster numbers and has a big personality.

 

Joe Thomas played a position strongly dependent on those around him, so he's a footnote in history to most.

I agree.  It's rare for a team to hold arguably the best player in the league at a premium position for that long (11 years) and not even make the playoffs.  It's great having the best OT in the league blocking the QB's blindside but you have to have a good qb to take advantage.  His two best QB's performance wise were Brian Hoyer and Dereck Anderson which is really sad.  The rest were former starters past their prime (Jeff Garcia, Jake Delhomme), journeyman QB's (Campbell, McCoy, McCown, Frye), and three 1st round busts (Quinn, Weeden, Manziel).  Yikes.    

 

Dick Butkis is the only other no doubt first ballot hall of famer that comes to mind that never made the playoffs (I think).  

[bills522]

On 6/8/2019 at 12:10 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

@JerseyBills I’m not sure what’s confusing? The Bills hired him to be 2nd in command not long ago. He left after getting a GM job. His team went 11-5 and he got fired. I don’t think that it is unreasonable to think that the Bills may be interested in bringing him back for the upcoming season. 

I'd be happy for him to come back in the same capacity as before. That draft he was here for was pretty successful. Why not? 

[Mr. WEO]

By the end of this month, the Texans will be paying 3 GMs....

 

 O'Brien has to be one of the most overrated HC's in the NFL. Consistently mediocre offenses.  Mr. 9-7.  Won 11 games last year and got blanked in the WC gae.  In fact, trounced in each of his 3 playoff games.

 

No he's grinding through his 3rd GM in 6 seasons.

 

Count the Texans out right  now.

[Ittakestime]

3 hours ago, bills522 said:

I'd be happy for him to come back in the same capacity as before. That draft he was here for was pretty successful. Why not? 

 

What are you talking about?  Gaine literally didn't work a draft here.

 

Moves he was here for:

 

Sammy and Darby trades.

Signing Boldin

Ragland Trade

Dareus Trade

Benjamin Trade

 

None of these signing/trades were good.

 

Finding players that can play midseason is a major part of his job.  Finding a guy like Isiah Mckenzie last year.  While Gaine was here we brought in guys like Robert Blanton, Deandre Coleman, Philly Brown, Deonte Thompson, Lafayette Pitts. 

 

There could be a case made that this team has been way better at building a team without Gaine, than with Gaine.

 

Let's also not forget that Gaine being brought in was because the Pegula's were impressed with him when interviewing for the GM job.  It's not like Beane took the job with him being someone on his staff.  The Pegula's liked him.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

By the end of this month, the Texans will be paying 3 GMs....

 

 O'Brien has to be one of the most overrated HC's in the NFL. Consistently mediocre offenses.  Mr. 9-7.  Won 11 games last year and got blanked in the WC gae.  In fact, trounced in each of his 3 playoff games.

 

No he's grinding through his 3rd GM in 6 seasons.

 

Count the Texans out right  now.

 

He went 9-7 with quarterbacking from a combination of Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Savage, Hoyer and Osweiler. I think that is a good thing not a bad thing. His only losing season they were decimated by injury (not just Watson but 8 or 9 starters were down for the majority of the season). His one full season with a proper Quarterback they won 11 games - but they did lay an absolute egg in the wild card game - no doubt and a lot of it was on Billy O's inability to adjust in game to what Indy were doing. 

 

I don't think he has been helped by the GM'ing in the sense that their actual plan last season was for Seantrel Henderson to start at tackle which given everything we know about both a) his play and b) his health seems woefully negligent. Henderson broke an ankle week one. They have failed to build an offensive line despite numerous attempts. 

 

Without doubt he is also a difficult personality. He has a huge ego and a gruffness to go with it. He has had a winning record 4 out of 5 seasons and made the post season 3 times (though he is 1-3 when getting there). 

 

It is also worth saying that while the relationship between Billy O and Rick Smith never ran smooth Smith stepped down for family reasons to care for his dying wife. 

 

Basically I think O'Brien is a mixed bag. I think he has done a generally good job with Houston. Of the Belichick disciples that have tried being an NFL Head Coach he has been about the most successful. But there is a legitimate question about whether he is a guy who can win a Championship. Or is he a Marvin Lewis who the majority of the time will produce good, competitive football teams that have a chance to make the post season but never really kick on. I think ownership will be thinking very carefully about that this year because they have their Quarterback. Now they have to find out if their coach is really the guy to take advantage. 

3 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Let's also not forget that Gaine being brought in was because the Pegula's were impressed with him when interviewing for the GM job.  It's not like Beane took the job with him being someone on his staff.  The Pegula's liked him.

 

 

Hmmm. Or my conspiracy theory - which is that everyone knew Beane was getting the job. They had already lined Gaine up to be on the staff and it never hurts to be seen to be getting GM looks. Gaine was the eye candy to the league to cover the fact that Beane had been secretly running the Bills' draft from the Panthers' war room. 

[Ittakestime]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. Or my conspiracy theory - which is that everyone knew Beane was getting the job. They had already lined Gaine up to be on the staff and it never hurts to be seen to be getting GM looks. Gaine was the eye candy to the league to cover the fact that Beane had been secretly running the Bills' draft from the Panthers' war room. 

 

What?  Gaine wasn't here for the draft, how could he be eye candy?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

 

What?  Gaine wasn't here for the draft, how could he be eye candy?

 

You misunderstand me. He was eye candy during the Bills interview process. He was never getting the job. He knew that. He was always coming here to be on Beane's staff. He interviewed so that the Bills could present to the league an honest competition and make it look like it hadn't been Beane's job for months - which it had, even to the point of us drafting guys he had scouted in Carolina. 

[CA OC Bills Fan]

22 hours ago, Lurker said:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-fire-GM-Brian-Gaine-after-17-months-13961559.php

 

"McNair determined that Gaine was a better personnel man than a general manager and didn’t want to redefine the job with the Texans."

 

What an odd statement.    Being a good personnel man is Job One for any GM.     You can hire other people for cap management, contracts, etc.     I suspect BOB wanted to dictate personnel more than Gaine and ultimately led the coup after thinking he had the GM under his thumb...b

I heard John McClain interviewed on Sirius XM yesterday. He said basically what’s quoted above. The Texans were very happy with Gaine’s personnel decisions, but felt he lacked the skill to run all departments in the organization. He also said O’Brien approves all personnel decisions. He, or perhaps Carucci, brought up that they could have hired assistant GMs to run other departments, no reason given why they didn’t. They didn’t say there were any issues with relationships.

 

I also found it interesting that NE can block an interview if it’s not considered a “true” promotion. They are given the job description and unless it’s a complete GM job, they block Caserio. They didn’t explain further but I assume the fact that O’Brien has control over the 53 man roster.

[LSHMEAB]

13 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Plus, Watt still has a chance to get a ring. 

 

I was always curious why Thomas didn’t want a trade. 

I don't know man. We're talking about a guy who was on a boat during the draft festivities. Just one of those people who showed up to work and did his job. I suspect he'll be in Canton one day FWIW. Still.....

[whatdrought]

38 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't know man. We're talking about a guy who was on a boat during the draft festivities. Just one of those people who showed up to work and did his job. I suspect he'll be in Canton one day FWIW. Still.....

 

Im sure he will be, probably 5 years from whenever he retired.