Zay Jones is Bills' most likely player to emerge on offense

[Augie]

23 hours ago, Forward Progress said:

Fake news!!  I read right on this web site that Zay won't be on the Bills roster this season.

 

That’s what you get.....for listening to us! 

[BuffAlone]

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@Alphadawg7

 

If Zay does emerge in our offense,  you have to get this tattoo.

 

I'd hate to know where all those eggs went......

[Alphadawg7]

21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@Alphadawg7

 

If Zay does emerge in our offense,  you have to get this tattoo.

 

 

This was pretty funny the first time someone did this joke...third time, not so much.  

[Alphadawg7]

15 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Sills will be watching from the practice squad

 

Sills getting dinged up early did him no favors.  If Ray Ray can carry his momentum into camp, the WR battle is going to get even Moreno interesting.  I wonder if we stash sills in PS if someone would i ***** him, lots of teams wanted to bring him in after draft.  

 

I like Sills, so hoping he can come out strong in camp and preseason.  Different skill set than our other guys, but it won’t be easy for him to make the roster if guys like Duke and Ray Ray competing too.  

 

And as as far as Zay goes and the OP of this thread...like I said from day 1, I hope he proves my offseason skepticism wrong and becomes a big part of the team.   This article however is just an opinion piece by a writer, means nothing.  Zay has to prove it on the field, and he’s had a good start in OTAs, but I still want to see him hold his own when contact and real defense is being played.  

 

Cant wait to see Cole get on the field too, I think he’s going to be a huge asset for Josh if they can get their timing down.  

 

Go Bills!  

[RoyBatty is alive]

19 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Zay could still end up our number 1, honestly.

Yes he could if in fact the author of the original article is correct and he emerges but I just dont see him catching more than Beasley.

[Rocky Landing]

On 6/8/2019 at 7:26 AM, Ronin said:

 

Yet strangely, on a power-5 team Sills' stats dwarfed Jones' TD production was nearly three times was Jones' was in their Jr/Sr seasons.  35/13 TDs.  

 

Also, with Sills being a considerable reason as to why WVU was 7-6 & 8-4 in the Big 12 while Jones was largely a non-factor in helping EC win games in their 5-7 and 3-9 seasons, largely mopping up stats in garbage time and in 5-spread formations that aren't common in the NFL.  

 

If Jones does much more than he did last season, I'll be pretty surprised.  

 

Catch % Career:  

 

Beasley 70.9%

Foster 61.4%

Brown 50.2%

Jones 47.2%   

 

Sills was around 55% according to nfl.com's draft profile:  

• Just 55 percent of throws his way were completed

Otherwise, Jones' draft profile and Sills are comparable with the exception that Sills at least played against players that will be in the NFL.  

 

I'm far from convinced that this staff knows what to look for in WRs.  Here's the summary from Jones' profile at nfl.com, which I thought was favorable at the time, although the end-assessment I agreed with generally speaking;  

 

 

 

You're seriously putting Jones' career catch percentage (without one iota of context), comparing it to Sills college percentage, and drawing a conclusion?

 

THAT is a bizarre, and silly numbers game, there. 

 

Perhaps I could just throw out Jones' catch percentages for his last two games, (55.6%, and 66.7%, respectively) and proclaim that he improved towards the end of the season?

Perhaps I could cite his catch percentage in the Jets game (with Barkley throwing him the ball) of 72.7%, and his following game's percentage of 0.0% (only one target), and proclaim him WILDLY INCONSISTENT.

Perhaps I could cite his actually drop percentage (slightly under 3%-- lower than most of the top receivers in the 2018 league, btw), and declare that he is the second coming of Jerry Rice.

Perhaps I could cite how much different his numbers were when he was facing different defenses, or had different QBs throwing him the ball. 

Or, perhaps I could ignore all context, throw out one incomplete stat, and declare that Sills is a better NFL QB than Zay Jones.

[Rocky Landing]

On 6/8/2019 at 6:55 AM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think Zay Jones will struggle to make this roster. He is a very bad route runner and he struggles to get open, he is like the opposite of Hines Ward. When he does catch the football he looks unspectacular and slow, his mental understanding of offensive concepts seems slow. I think by removing Jones and Croom you improve the team at their respective positions.

When did he become a "very bad route runner?" It is one of his strengths.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

When did he become a "very bad route runner?" It is one of his strengths.

you seem angry.. lol

  His College game gave the impression he would be a QB most trusted friend. and the he fell apart once in the NFL

it does seem Jones has been a polarizing figure since being drafted. with good reason. His 1st season and offseason may have been the very worst i have ever taken notice of.

yet even i think he is trending up. second year with Allen will do him and wonders.

 Hope he proves me wrong after all

[Rocky Landing]

2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

you seem angry.. lol

  His College game gave the impression he would be a QB most trusted friend. and the he fell apart once in the NFL

it does seem Jones has been a polarizing figure since being drafted. with good reason. His 1st season and offseason may have been the very worst i have ever taken notice of.

yet even i think he is trending up. second year with Allen will do him and wonders.

 Hope he proves me wrong after all

I'm not angry, I'm drunk! (kidding)

Jones first season in the pros was terrible! 

 

 I was definitely one arguing that his position was not, and should not have been safe going into the 2018 season, regardless of where he was drafted, and I see him proving me wrong! And, I don't think there should be anything given to him this season.

 

That being said, at this point, I believe that he not only improved during the 2018 offseason, which was immediately evident at the outset of last season, I believe that he improved throughout last season. And I am not alone. I don't think I am saying anything particularly controversial. Zones had more targets last season than any other WR on the team, right up until week 17. I also think he just might be our most versatile WR, which, IMO, could make him our most valuable #2. 

 

He has also, very evidently, worked on his athleticism, and strength this offseason. That's a good thing-- perhaps he will be able to improve his catch radius, and ability to fight for contested ball, which I think are his two main deficiencies. To be honest, I don't see him as ever being a true #1 caliber WR. (I hope he proves me wrong, there, too!)

 

But, what does bother me about the Jones debate, are certain people's proclivity to crow about Foster's improvements, and athleticism, and Sills untapped, and unknown potential, while utterly ignoring the improvements Jones has made, and relying on stats that encompass his entire career, without acknowledging their upward trend, or providing an ounce of context to such stats. Of course, these sorts of debates occur on these threads all the time.  I just find that sort of debate dishonest.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Rocky Landing

[4merper4mer]

Is there any reason Sills went undrafted while Jones was a high 2nd?  Didn't any of these scouts read anything?

 

I think Sills projects to have a Will Fuller type career because of the V.

 

Note:. The above statement has just as much logic regarding the legend of Sills as any other ridiculous thing I've read.  Why people are rooting against Jones succeeding is baffling to me.  I hope they all do fantastic things, but if we're going on hunches my hunch is that Nick Easley will last longer than Sills.

[eball]

25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Is there any reason Sills went undrafted while Jones was a high 2nd?  Didn't any of these scouts read anything?

 

I think Sills projects to have a Will Fuller type career because of the V.

 

Note:. The above statement has just as much logic regarding the legend of Sills as any other ridiculous thing I've read.  Why people are rooting against Jones succeeding is baffling to me.  I hope they all do fantastic things, but if we're going on hunches my hunch is that Nick Easley will last longer than Sills.

 

Easley and Sills (and to some extent, Duke) are this year's versions of the guys "everyone is rooting for."  The truth remains that all face extremely long odds to make the 53.

 

I suppose the hope is that one or more show enough to be kept on the PS.  I had high hopes for Austin Proehl last year and he wasn't very good (although he is currently on the Rams' PS).

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Easley and Sills (and to some extent, Duke) are this year's versions of the guys "everyone is rooting for."  The truth remains that all face extremely long odds to make the 53.

 

I suppose the hope is that one or more show enough to be kept on the PS.  I had high hopes for Austin Proehl last year and he wasn't very good (although he is currently on the Rams' PS).

Joe Vitti's abound.  Sometimes they can provide value and I hope they all do. I haven't seen much Easley hype but some on Williams and Sills infiltrates every thread.  I think I saw someone mention him in the best modern composer thread on OTW.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Is there any reason Sills went undrafted while Jones was a high 2nd?  Didn't any of these scouts read anything?

 

I think Sills projects to have a Will Fuller type career because of the V.

 

Note:. The above statement has just as much logic regarding the legend of Sills as any other ridiculous thing I've read.  Why people are rooting against Jones succeeding is baffling to me.  I hope they all do fantastic things, but if we're going on hunches my hunch is that Nick Easley will last longer than Sills.

 

There is a big difference about being honest about where Zay has struggled and "rooting against him".  His rookie year was a disaster on and off the field.  His second year was pretty uninspiring considering he was irrelevant in almost 70% of his games and saw an UDFA who had been cut come in and outshine him.  So people being honest and unbiased in the critique of what his resume has been up until now does NOT mean people are "rooting against him".  

 

That is one of my biggest pet peeves around here.  The moment you openly criticize a player you are labeled a "hater" and assumed to just want him to fail.  In fairness, there are people around here who get invested in being right about their negativity and will go to all lengths to try and "be right".  But with Zay, just about everyone I have seen who has been skeptical or critical based on his first 2 years are not rooting for him to fail.  

 

I really hope Zay takes a big step forward, that would be great for both the Bills and Josh specifically.  As far as Sills goes, I find it funny that people are upset that people like the kid and want to see what he does.  His story is pretty amazing and he is an easy guy to root for.  But some posters hate the optimism for some reason and like to mock peoples interest in seeing what he can do.  Ever weirder, its mostly the same people who mocked Foster all last year and yet he still emerged.  

 

So I honestly dont agree with anything you just wrote.  I dont see anyone being ridiculous with Sills, he was quite accomplished and one of the best WR's in College football the last 2 years and a big reason Will Grier was as a good as he was.  He's still raw, but he also has a different skill set that could be good for a WR group, so nothing wrong with rooting for the kid.  Same with Duke, everyone loves a good redemption story, and again he could be a nice compliment to the other WRs if he makes the team, so would be good to see him do it.  

 

Regardless of anyones opinions, the WR battle will be fun to watch and its getting more interesting with Ray Ray starting strong too.  If he can carry that into camp and preseason, the battle is going to be even deeper.  

Edited June 10, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[gobills1212]

On 6/7/2019 at 4:11 PM, ChevyVanMiller said:

Zay Jones? I hardly recognized him with his clothes on.

Quoting an entire article for a 10 word response. I love it!

[John from Riverside]

On 6/7/2019 at 5:58 PM, Phil The Thrill said:

Sills will be watching from the practice squad

I think so to and honestly that is not a bad thing.....an unfortunate injury and we have some talent ready to be brought up.

Could we (gasp) actually have a decent WR core?

 

Unless Robert Foster takes that next step and becomes a legit  number one I see a bunch of "good" talent.......I will take that.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There is a big difference about being honest about where Zay has struggled and "rooting against him".  His rookie year was a disaster on and off the field.  His second year was pretty uninspiring considering he was irrelevant in almost 70% of his games and saw an UDFA who had been cut come in and outshine him.  So people being honest and unbiased in the critique of what his resume has been up until now does NOT mean people are "rooting against him".  

 

That is one of my biggest pet peeves around here.  The moment you openly criticize a player you are labeled a "hater" and assumed to just want him to fail.  In fairness, there are people around here who get invested in being right about their negativity and will go to all lengths to try and "be right".  But with Zay, just about everyone I have seen who has been skeptical or critical based on his first 2 years are not rooting for him to fail.  

 

I really hope Zay takes a big step forward, that would be great for both the Bills and Josh specifically.  As far as Sills goes, I find it funny that people are upset that people like the kid and want to see what he does.  His story is pretty amazing and he is an easy guy to root for.  But some posters hate the optimism for some reason and like to mock peoples interest in seeing what he can do.  Ever weirder, its mostly the same people who mocked Foster all last year and yet he still emerged.  

 

So I honestly dont agree with anything you just wrote.  I dont see anyone being ridiculous with Sills, he was quite accomplished and one of the best WR's in College football the last 2 years and a big reason Will Grier was as a good as he was.  He's still raw, but he also has a different skill set that could be good for a WR group, so nothing wrong with rooting for the kid.  Same with Duke, everyone loves a good redemption story, and again he could be a nice compliment to the other WRs if he makes the team, so would be good to see him do it.  

 

Regardless of anyones opinions, the WR battle will be fun to watch and its getting more interesting with Ray Ray starting strong too.  If he can carry that into camp and preseason, the battle is going to be even deeper.  

So much LOL I don't know where to start but I'm sure you're rooting for Zay.

 

What constitutes a disaster on an off the field?  Are disasters irrecoverable?  Has there ever been a rookie WR on a team with a QB that didn't pass that had a worse season than Jones?

 

How is it that he was "outshined" by a receiver who had fewer receptions, yards and touchdowns?

 

Meanwhile Sills the miracle was one of the best receivers in college for two years running, is "very accomplished", gets all the credit for his QB's career and somehow gets passed over by every team in the league in all 7 rounds.  Clue: He was NOT one of the best receivers in college football in terms of being a pro prospect.

 

I was skeptical about Foster after the preseason drops but am now hopeful he can build on a good second half of 2018.  I am also rooting for Jones, Sills, Easley, Williams, McCloud, Brown and Beasley along with Croom, Kroft and the rookie who is holding out.

 

I do find it silly that a Zay Jones sucks thread was created and sillier that it has partially turned into a Sills is amazing thread.

Edited June 10, 2019 by 4merper4mer

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

At least at this point we have all the bases covered. 

 

Zay will either be the Bills MVP or be cut this year, or something in between.  I’M CALLING IT NOW!!

[Alphadawg7]

54 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

So much LOL I don't know where to start but I'm sure you're rooting for Zay.

 

What constitutes a disaster on an off the field?  Are disasters irrecoverable?  Has there ever been a rookie WR on a team with a QB that didn't pass that had a worse season than Jones?

 

If you dont think Zays rookie year was terrible, I dont know what to tell you.  I was happy when we drafted him (even though I preferred local JuJu, I still also liked Zay).  I was excited about him after preseason...then he went out and couldn't catch a cold, cost us multiple games with drops, and had one of the worst catch rates in the league.  Then he tried to jump naked out of a 31 story window.  I dont know about you, but thats a disastrous first year in my book.  

 

And when did I say he couldn't recover from it?  Again, you are jumping to conclusions that were not said.  You know its ok to be HONEST about a players season without it automatically meaning he cant get better right?  Its also ok to be skeptical until then too.  

 

Quote

 

How is it that he was "outshined" by a receiver who had fewer receptions, yards and touchdowns?

 

Now this is just a silly thing to say.  Lets not pretend you dont know that Foster was cut and didn't emerge until after he was brought back.  You knew what I meant...he came back and then outshined Zay down the stretch including doing 3 times in 7 games what Zay has never done in 31 games...three 100 yard games.  

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile Sills the miracle was one of the best receivers in college for two years running, is "very accomplished", gets all the credit for his QB's career and somehow gets passed over by every team in the league in all 7 rounds.  Clue: He was NOT one of the best receivers in college football in terms of being a pro prospect.

 

Again, you are saying things I didn't say.  Please show me where I said he was one of the best pro prospects?  I said specifically he was one of the best WRs in college football, finalist for the top WR in college football too...and lets not forget that that was despite never playing WR before college.  And I said he was raw, which is why he didn't get drafted.  Yet a lot of the NFL is made up of players who weren't drafted.  

 

Quote

 

I was skeptical about Foster after the preseason drops but am now hopeful he can build on a good second half of 2018.  I am also rooting for Jones, Sills, Easley, Williams, McCloud, Brown and Beasley along with Croom, Kroft and the rookie who is holding out.

 

So after seeing Foster exceed your expectations last year (and probably Levi too) you don't think its a bit silly to just crap on this years UDFA's as if they have no chance to make this team?  Again, no one is saying Sills is a lock, but its ok for people to root for the kid or be excited to see him compete.  You are substantially over exaggerating what people are saying about Sills just like you are twisting things I said here to mean something they did not mean.  

 

Quote

 

I do find it silly that a Zay Jones sucks thread was created and sillier that it has partially turned into a Sills is amazing thread.

 

None of this last line is true.  There was a thread discussing why I felt Zays roster spot could be in jeopardy (started before FA and the Draft) based on expected off season moves.  In that thread some people have expressed excitement for Sills for example...then posters like you trash the idea that Sills could have a chance, and it makes people defend why they look forward to seeing what Sills can do.  Then posters like you translate that into meaning more than it does as if someone was implying Sills was a lock to make the roster, something no one has said.  

 

So sorry man, nothing personal...but you are making your own narratives up here.  No one really is rooting for Zay to fail and no one is saying Sills or even Duke is a lock for this roster.  But some of us are excited about their POTENTIAL and look forward to the battles on the field to see if they can show they can help this team, especially given the different styles guys like Duke and Sills could bring to compliment the other WRs.  

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[4merper4mer]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If you dont think Zays rookie year was terrible, I dont know what to tell you.  I was happy when we drafted him (even though I preferred local JuJu, I still also liked Zay).  I was excited about him after preseason...then he went out and couldn't catch a cold, cost us multiple games with drops, and had one of the worst catch rates (if not the worst) in the league.  Then he tried to jump naked out of a window.  I dont know about you, but thats a disastrous first year in my book.  

 

And when did I say he couldn't recover from it?  Again, you are jumping to conclusions that were not said.  You know its ok to be HONEST about a players season without it automatically meaning he cant get better right?  Its also ok to be skeptical until then too.  

 

 

Now this is just nonsense.  Lets not pretend you dont know that Foster was cut and didn't emerge until after he was brought back.  You knew exactly what I meant...he came back and then outshined Zay down the stretch including doing 3 times in 7 games what Zay has never done in 31 games...three 100 yard games.  

 

 

Again, you are saying things I didn't say.  Please show me where I said he was one of the best pro prospects?  I said SPECIFICALLY he was one of the best WRs in college football, finalist for the top WR in college football too...and lets not forget that that was DESPITE never playing WR before college.  And I said he was raw, which is why he didn't get drafted.  Yet a LARGE portion of the NFL is made up of players who weren't drafted.  

 

 

So after being wrong about Foster last year (and probably Levi too) you don't think its a bit silly to just crap on this years UDFA's as if they have no chance to make this team?  Again, no one is saying Sills is a lock, but its ok for people to root for the kid or be excited to see him compete.  You are GROSSSSSSSSSLY over exaggerating what people are saying about Sills just like you are twisting things I said here to mean something they did NOT mean.  

 

 

Except none of this last line is true.  There was a thread discussing why I felt Zays roster spot could be in jeopardy (started before FA and the Draft) based on expected off season moves.  In that thread some people have expressed excitement for Sills for example...then posters like you trash the idea that Sills could have a chance, and it makes people defend why they look forward to seeing what Sills can do.  Then posters like you translate that into meaning more than it does as if someone was implying Sills was a lock to make the roster, something NO ONE has said.  

 

So sorry man, nothing personal...but you are making your own narratives up here.  No one is rooting for Zay to fail and no one is saying Sills or even Duke is a lock for this roster.  But some of us are excited about their POTENTIAL and look forward to the battles on the field to see if they can show they can help this team, especially given the different styles guys like Duke and Sills could bring to compliment the other WRs.  

 

You have some reality issues if you think I am "crapping on" anyone along with some of your other comments above.  I am rooting for every single one of them to be great.  I crapped on no one.  I do find it odd that Sills name comes up over and over and over in threads like this that are about other players.  I don't trash the idea that he has a chance.  He is on the roster so he does.  I trash the idea that he made Will Grier what he is today and that his college career, which resulted in him being undrafted, gives him a better chance of making the roster than Jones.  That's a joke.

 

I do remember Jones drop in the Carolina game.  I agree he cost us that game because so many other people scored so many touchdowns and all Zay needed to do was add one more.  The whole offense was tremendous except for him.  If he had only been an average rookie we'd have won the Super Bowl.

 

In your wonderful Zay Jones sucks thread the OP lists all of his deficiencies and nary a positive trait, but we are now to believe you think and hope he can succeed?  You list his 7 deadly sins.  You list zero positive traits. You list zero specific rays of hope.  Your thread didn't exactly state "Zay's roster spit could be in jeopardy".  Look at its title dude.  It's ok to be invested in an opinion.  Just own it.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

You have some reality issues if you think I am "crapping on" anyone along with some of your other comments above.  I am rooting for every single one of them to be great.  I crapped on no one.  I do find it odd that Sills name comes up over and over and over in threads like this that are about other players.  I don't trash the idea that he has a chance.  He is on the roster so he does.  I trash the idea that he made Will Grier what he is today and that his college career, which resulted in him being undrafted, gives him a better chance of making the roster than Jones.  That's a joke.

 

You see there you go again, no one said that.  

 

Quote

 

I do remember Jones drop in the Carolina game.  I agree he cost us that game because so many other people scored so many touchdowns and all Zay needed to do was add one more.  The whole offense was tremendous except for him.  If he had only been an average rookie we'd have won the Super Bowl.

 

In your wonderful Zay Jones sucks thread the OP lists all of his deficiencies and nary a positive trait, but we are now to believe you think and hope he can succeed?  You list his 7 deadly sins.  You list zero positive traits. You list zero specific rays of hope.  Your thread didn't exactly state "Zay's roster spit could be in jeopardy".  Look at its title dude.  It's ok to be invested in an opinion.  Just own it.

 

 

 

And there it is again, just confirming what I said.  You cant seem to separate being honest about how we see something and "rooting for him to fail".  I mean you keep responding and literally confirming everything I just said.  

 

And If you want to make your mind up about the SUBSTANCE of the meaning of a thread based on YOUR interpretation of a meaning of a thread title, thats your choice.  My thread predicted a trade...the title reflect that. 

 

All good man, nothing personal, but not much more to discuss here.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Alphadawg7