Lfod Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) I don't think Jim Kelly would be a deciding factor in how Josh Allen pans out. If he has some tips and tricks about how he was successful in the past it couldn't hurt to share them with a newer QB. I would just give a warning. If you talk about collaboration and it fails people most likely put the blame on Jim Kelly even if it was a minor mentoring thing. You will just end up hurting your reputation. Edited June 5, 2019 by Lfod
PrimeTime101 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 I think there is way to many trolls in this thread. Anyone that thinks that coaches/teams talking to a hall of fame player because they want to try something or spin off something is just stupid or a troll. Jim Kelly was one of a handful that called plays all game long and this team wants to learn from that in how they did it and how it was effective in the type of calls more then the actual call.. The groupings of call it was. Even to complain about them doing this.. Thinking it will ruin Josh Allen.. The narrative of all this bs on this thread is a joke. Its one thing to give an opinion and its another to voice an opinion that is so outrageous and stupid to people. #1. Don't feed the trolls Check #2. Ignore the ignorance Check
Figster Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Lfod said: I don't think Jim Kelly would be a deciding factor in how Josh Allen pans out. If he has some tips and tricks about how he was successful in the past it couldn't hurt to share them with a newer QB. I would just give a warning. If you talk about collaboration and it fails people most likely put the blame on Jim Kelly even if it was a minor mentoring thing. You will just end up hurting your reputation. Nor do I Lfod, watching one of the latest interviews with Simms I was intrigued with how easily Allen could give explanation for his minor adjustments and actions. To me Allen comes accross as a guy that will soak up everything around him good and bad then find ways to make improvement. A great example of the process. 2
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Some good quotes from both McD and Josh concerning this topic; posted elsewhere by Yolo also. https://www.cover1.net/sean-mcdermott-josh-allen/ 1
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Some good quotes from both McD and Josh concerning this topic; posted elsewhere by Yolo also. https://www.cover1.net/sean-mcdermott-josh-allen/ thanks for posting this man. interesting quote here. wonder if those showing negative feelings toward JK, will now have the same ill feelings toward the coach? I mean, seems he, the HC, has no issues but hey, he must have a loser mentality to let JK get involved with JA... McD Q: What Jim said is that he was meeting with [Ken] Dorsey, [Brian] Daboll and with Josh [Allen]. Also that they had downloaded plays from the Super Bowl era and said any plays that Josh liked were to be implemented. So it’s pretty specific areas of discussion, he sat in meetings. A: It really boils down to, like I said before, us trying to find every way possible to improve our football team. I’ve stood up here before and told you guys we look at every way to improve our football team and this is no different. Jim is a Hall of Famer, and to me it would ignorant of us not to have a relationship with Jim. Sometimes asking him “hey what do you think”, we’ve got a younger quarterback, so all of that’s healthy, all of that’s good. At the end of the day, Brian will be the one calling the plays and we’ll move forward with that. You guys can work out that much yourselves. Josh Allen Q: We heard Jim Kelly tell us yesterday that there’s been times where he’s sat down with you, Brian [Daboll], Coach [Ken] Dorsey and gone over film and had conversations. Can you dive a little bit more into what those have been like and how frequent those have been? A: I wouldn’t say that they’ve been frequent but it’s always good to get new ideas, especially from a guy like Jim who is a Hall of Famer and played at the highest level for a very long time. For myself, just kind of picking his brain and talking and seeing what he did on film and actually being able to ask him what his thought process was on a certain concept. You see it nowadays too, football has not changed that much. They ran the same concepts that we still run to this day so in order to pick his brain has been really good for me. Obviously he’s been there with me with Dorsey and Daboll a couple of times. So, I don’t think it’s been much more than that, I don’t know if everybody has been making it a big deal but to have a guy like Jim around the building is special because he means a lot to this city and a lot to this organization so I’m just thankful that he is fortunate enough to come over here and talk to us. Edited June 5, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973 2
Heitz Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 23 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: I take it you haven't spent much time in corporate America. Almost uniformly, consultants are snake-oil salesmen and a waste of time. And, no, I'm older than you so I've had AMPLE opportunity to learn from process gurus and motivational speakers and the like in ALL kinds of different fields from sales to technology. And uniformly, they're teachers because they cannot do. You know the old saying, right? Stick to your wheelhouse, friend...being wrong on football messageboards. 23 hours ago, 5 Wide said: Consultants are BS. They peanut butter spread basic concepts across multiple industries without taking the time to get into the weeds to learn the nuances of what actually transpires in different market niches. I would say the consultant analogy is a bad one though. This would be more like the retired VP of sales of your company coming back to talk about his experience working the same industry you're presently in, servicing the same accounts etc.. Man, my 20 year career as a marketing consultant feels wasted now. Guess all those YOY retainers and praises from clients are for the killer snake oil and non-nuanced plans we force upon them... Blanket statements like those above are almost as dumb as believing that a little advice from Jim Kelly is going to ruin Josh Allen! ? 1 2
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: thanks for posting this man. interesting quote here. wonder if those showing negative feelings toward JK, will now have the same ill feelings toward the coach? I mean, seems he, the HC, has no issues but hey, he must have a loser mentality to let JK get involved with JA... McD Q: What Jim said is that he was meeting with [Ken] Dorsey, [Brian] Daboll and with Josh [Allen]. Also that they had downloaded plays from the Super Bowl era and said any plays that Josh liked were to be implemented. So it’s pretty specific areas of discussion, he sat in meetings. A: It really boils down to, like I said before, us trying to find every way possible to improve our football team. I’ve stood up here before and told you guys we look at every way to improve our football team and this is no different. Jim is a Hall of Famer, and to me it would ignorant of us not to have a relationship with Jim. Sometimes asking him “hey what do you think”, we’ve got a younger quarterback, so all of that’s healthy, all of that’s good. At the end of the day, Brian will be the one calling the plays and we’ll move forward with that. You guys can work out that much yourselves. Josh Allen Q: We heard Jim Kelly tell us yesterday that there’s been times where he’s sat down with you, Brian [Daboll], Coach [Ken] Dorsey and gone over film and had conversations. Can you dive a little bit more into what those have been like and how frequent those have been? A: I wouldn’t say that they’ve been frequent but it’s always good to get new ideas, especially from a guy like Jim who is a Hall of Famer and played at the highest level for a very long time. For myself, just kind of picking his brain and talking and seeing what he did on film and actually being able to ask him what his thought process was on a certain concept. You see it nowadays too, football has not changed that much. They ran the same concepts that we still run to this day so in order to pick his brain has been really good for me. Obviously he’s been there with me with Dorsey and Daboll a couple of times. So, I don’t think it’s been much more than that, I don’t know if everybody has been making it a big deal but to have a guy like Jim around the building is special because he means a lot to this city and a lot to this organization so I’m just thankful that he is fortunate enough to come over here and talk to us. Now I understand the uproar. This sounds aweful 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Now I understand the uproar. This sounds aweful What do you expect him to say? He knows if he says anything remotely negative about the golden calf, a whole bunch of old-timers are gonna pitchfork-and-torch him.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Heitz said: Man, my 20 year career as a marketing consultant feels wasted now. Guess all those YOY retainers and praises from clients are for the killer snake oil and non-nuanced plans we force upon them... Blanket statements like those above are almost as dumb as believing that a little advice from Jim Kelly is going to ruin Josh Allen! ? Many People are threatened by knowledge. That’s why it’s the decision makers and executives hiring consultants, not the rank and file who tend to be intimidated by intellectuals, experts, doers and go-getters. competent folks seee value or find a way to extract value, incompetent ones are threatened and insecure. Ive seen the pattern for decades now. Edited June 5, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood 2
Gugny Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Now I understand the uproar. This sounds aweful This makes me think, even more, that it's being initiated by Kelly and nobody has the heart to say, "no." But it also seems that it's not taking a lot of their time.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: What do you expect him to say? He knows if he says anything remotely negative about the golden calf, a whole bunch of old-timers are gonna pitchfork-and-torch him. This whole thing is so innocuous it’s amazing the ire thats been stirred up. When your doing football 12 hours a day it’s probably refreshing to look at film from the 90s 1 minute ago, Gugny said: This makes me think, even more, that it's being initiated by Kelly and nobody has the heart to say, "no." But it also seems that it's not taking a lot of their time. Exactly. More a pr effort than a strategic one. Edited June 5, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood
Gugny Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Exactly. More a pr effort than a strategic one. Given Kelly's health, I will also add that - what it appears McDermott, Allen, Daboll/assistants are doing (allowing Kelly to spend a little time/share his thoughts) - is classy. 2 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Gugny said: This makes me think, even more, that it's being initiated by Kelly and nobody has the heart to say, "no." But it also seems that it's not taking a lot of their time. Gugs, I’m really not trying to be difficult here, but I came away with the exact opposite conclusion over who reached out to whom first...I’m pasting back in the relevant portion of MCD’s presser: McD Q: What Jim said is that he was meeting with [Ken] Dorsey, [Brian] Daboll and with Josh [Allen]. Also that they had downloaded plays from the Super Bowl era and said any plays that Josh liked were to be implemented. So it’s pretty specific areas of discussion, he sat in meetings. A: It really boils down to, like I said before, us trying to find every way possible to improve our football team. I’ve stood up here before and told you guys we look at every way to improve our football team and this is no different. Jim is a Hall of Famer, and to me it would ignorant of us not to have a relationship with Jim. Sometimes asking him “hey what do you think”, we’ve got a younger quarterback, so all of that’s healthy, all of that’s good. At the end of the day, Brian will be the one calling the plays and we’ll move forward with that. You guys can work out that much yourselves. (emphasis supplied) Edited June 5, 2019 by NoHuddleKelly12
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 46 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: For myself, just kind of picking his brain and talking and seeing what he did on film and actually being able to ask him what his thought process was on a certain concept. You see it nowadays too, football has not changed that much. They ran the same concepts that we still run to this day so in order to pick his brain has been really good for me ^^^^^This excerpt from Josh’s presser transcript may come as a shock for those of you who imagine football concepts used today were just invented during last year’s offseason, and there’s nothing qualitative to be gleaned as a result. Hope you’re sitting down! 1
Figster Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 40 minutes ago, Gugny said: Given Kelly's health, I will also add that - what it appears McDermott, Allen, Daboll/assistants are doing (allowing Kelly to spend a little time/share his thoughts) - is classy. It is classy Gu, Regardless of who may have initiated it...
Figster Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Gugs, I’m really not trying to be difficult here, but I came away with the exact opposite conclusion over who reached out to whom first...I’m pasting back in the relevant portion of MCD’s presser: McD Q: What Jim said is that he was meeting with [Ken] Dorsey, [Brian] Daboll and with Josh [Allen]. Also that they had downloaded plays from the Super Bowl era and said any plays that Josh liked were to be implemented. So it’s pretty specific areas of discussion, he sat in meetings. A: It really boils down to, like I said before, us trying to find every way possible to improve our football team. I’ve stood up here before and told you guys we look at every way to improve our football team and this is no different. Jim is a Hall of Famer, and to me it would ignorant of us not to have a relationship with Jim. Sometimes asking him “hey what do you think”, we’ve got a younger quarterback, so all of that’s healthy, all of that’s good. At the end of the day, Brian will be the one calling the plays and we’ll move forward with that. You guys can work out that much yourselves. (emphasis supplied) If I remember correctly, JK had made some comments awhile back expressing his interest in sharing a few thoughts with Allen. Sort of an ice breaker comment. Don't quote me on it though https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/213281-jim-kelly-wants-to-sit-down-with-josh-allen/ Edited June 5, 2019 by Figster
The Senator Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Heitz said: Man, my 20 year career as a marketing consultant feels wasted now. Guess all those YOY retainers and praises from clients are for the killer snake oil and non-nuanced plans we force upon them... Blanket statements like those above are almost as dumb as believing that a little advice from Jim Kelly is going to ruin Josh Allen! ? You have to consider the source - particular the first quote - an ignorant troll who in one post call everyone either old or “gramps”, then a few posts later argues that he older than most and has more experience in corporate America than anyone on this board. His life is the epitome of James Thurber’s Walter Mitty. He has little, if any, knowledge of either football or business, but enjoys baiting others to respond to his nonsense - gives him something else to do with his hands all day when he not playing with himself. Just put him on your ‘Ignore’ list, and you won’t even see his nonsense. Trust me, your TSW experience will be more pleasant that way. . Edited June 5, 2019 by The Senator 1 2
Fan in San Diego Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 14 hours ago, The Senator said: You have to consider the source - particular the first quote - an ignorant troll who in one post call everyone either old or “gramps”, then a few posts later argues that he older than most and has more experience in corporate America than anyone on this board. His life is the epitome of James Thurber’s Walter Mitty. He has little, if any, knowledge of either football or business, but enjoys baiting others to respond to his nonsense - gives him something else to do with his hands all day when he not playing with himself. Just put him on your ‘Ignore’ list, and you won’t even see his nonsense. Trust me, your TSW experience will be more pleasant that way. . Just tossing in my $0.02 I recently hired a sales consultant. Best thing I've ever done. Jim Kelly can teach the rookie so much on reading defenses, pre snap reads, hot reads, K-Gun when needed. No downside here.
The Senator Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Fan in San Diego said: Just tossing in my $0.02 I recently hired a sales consultant. Best thing I've ever done. Jim Kelly can teach the rookie so much on reading defenses, pre snap reads, hot reads, K-Gun when needed. No downside here. Couldn’t agree more. I wouldn’t object if HOFers James Lofton and/or Andre Reed sat down with our young WRs either. .
5 Wide Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 21 hours ago, Heitz said: Man, my 20 year career as a marketing consultant feels wasted now. Guess all those YOY retainers and praises from clients are for the killer snake oil and non-nuanced plans we force upon them... Blanket statements like those above are almost as dumb as believing that a little advice from Jim Kelly is going to ruin Josh Allen! ? Guess this falls under the your mileage may vary idiom. The consultants i have worked with have provided little value to the end game. I'm sure there are highly specialized consultants that do a great job in their silos, but the output consultants have presented to me have been little more than typical boiler plate stuff with a few tailored details that make general business school assumptions.
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