oldmanfan Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: OK, gramps. You found ONE. Congratulations. Next time don't make declarative statement that you then have to retract. 7 minutes ago, Gugny said: I don't see any harm in Kelly speaking to Allen. That said - I don't see any real benefit, either. I've said for years that I was tired of hearing what Thurman, Kelly and Reed thought about the team. I never cared what they thought. Even if they'd won a Super Bowl ... I wouldn't care what they thought. They're yesterday's news. I agree with JSP that this team needs to find its own identity. They don't need a torch passed from a team that was good 30 years ago. I also agree that this isn't something we see with other teams in the league. My feeling is that it's a Big Fish/Little Pond situation. I was tired of it 10 years ago. I simply don't see the benefit. From a football perspective I see your point. But Kelly also led a team that had its share of interesting personalities, and insight into how he approached leadership could certainly be helpful to a young guy that has to now shoulder that responsibility.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gugny said: I don't see any harm in Kelly speaking to Allen. That said - I don't see any real benefit, either. I've said for years that I was tired of hearing what Thurman, Kelly and Reed thought about the team. I never cared what they thought. Even if they'd won a Super Bowl ... I wouldn't care what they thought. They're yesterday's news. I agree with JSP that this team needs to find its own identity. They don't need a torch passed from a team that was good 30 years ago. I also agree that this isn't something we see with other teams in the league. My feeling is that it's a Big Fish/Little Pond situation. I was tired of it 10 years ago. I simply don't see the benefit. I agree that Allen & Co. need to find their own identity and own it--however, you cannot wish away nor should you want to, that they stand on the shoulders of those that have gone before, each a representative of the Buffalo Bills, a once-proud franchise that needs all the help it can get to climb back up the mountain of NFL relevancy and sustained success. If that once proud history and getting back to that (plus MORE) adds extra juice/motivation for Allen, who seems to genuinely enjoy interacting with Kelly (including hanging out at his house), who are any of us to judge that? Do we really think Allen is mentally incapable of taking what would help him and separate out (with the help of Dabs) whatever won't? BTW, if the past is so irrelevant and worthless, why bother rooting for a specific franchise to begin with? Wouldn't it be more fun to live only in the moment, and root for, say, New England or the Rams, or whoever is the team du jour each year? If I can't enjoy success both now and from previous years, what's the point of feverishly wishing for it to come even next year, if I have to immediately slough that off as yesterday's news...just wondering, as that seems like a lot of effort with no lasting payoff. Edited June 4, 2019 by NoHuddleKelly12 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Next time don't make declarative statement that you then have to retract. You're not my real dad, You can't tell me what to do. How about this: Find me ALL the instances in the past 10 years where teams deliberately brought in old guys to have a tea party with young guys.
Gugny Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: From a football perspective I see your point. But Kelly also led a team that had its share of interesting personalities, and insight into how he approached leadership could certainly be helpful to a young guy that has to now shoulder that responsibility. Fair point. And if Allen has requested to speak to Kelly about leading a football team, I think it's great that Kelly has agreed to speak with him. If this was initiated by Kelly, then I would take issue with that. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Fair point. And if Allen has requested to speak to Kelly about leading a football team, I think it's great that Kelly has agreed to speak with him. If this was initiated by Kelly, then I would take issue with that. I think this is a fair response. If Allen reached out, then yes. But if someone in the franchise or in Kelly's camp initiated it, I want no part of it. 1
Gugny Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I agree that Allen & Co. need to find their own identity and own it--however, you cannot wish away nor should you want to, that they stand on the shoulders of those that have gone before, each a representative of the Buffalo Bills, a once-proud franchise that needs all the help it can get to climb back up the mountain of NFL relevancy and sustained success. If that once proud history and getting back to that (plus MORE) adds extra juice/motivation for Allen, who seems to genuinely enjoy interacting with Kelly (including hanging out at his house), who are any of us to judge that? Do we really think Allen is mentally incapable of taking what would help him and separate out (with the help of Dabs) whatever won't? BTW, if the past is so irrelevant and worthless, why bother rooting for a specific franchise to begin with? Wouldn't it be more fun to live only in the moment, and root for, say, New England or the Rams, or whoever is the team du jour each year? If I can't enjoy success both now and from previous years, what's the point of feverishly wishing for it to come even next year, if I have to immediately slough that off as yesterday's news...just wondering, as that seems like a lot of effort with no lasting payoff. I never said the past should be disregarded or forgotten. I'm just saying that the past doesn't need to be part of the present. Especially if the present isn't requesting it.
oldmanfan Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: You're not my real dad, You can't tell me what to do. How about this: Find me ALL the instances in the past 10 years where teams deliberately brought in old guys to have a tea party with young guys. How about this: I could care less about such instances, because it doesn't matter a hill of beans what other teams do, and because I was not the one making such a big deal about it. I think having guys that have been through it talking to younger guys coming up in generally a good idea, whether it's football or business or whatever. Maybe they share what worked in terms of leadership and, perhaps even more importantly, share things they messed up. Sorry you're getting so upset. Are you going to send your dad to beat me up after school now? 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: Fair point. And if Allen has requested to speak to Kelly about leading a football team, I think it's great that Kelly has agreed to speak with him. If this was initiated by Kelly, then I would take issue with that. I see this point. If I'm Allen I'd take whatever time Jim wanted to give me.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Are you going to send your dad to beat me up after school now? That would be interesting, as he's likely older than you. It'd probably be a race to see who breaks a hip first.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: I never said the past should be disregarded or forgotten. I'm just saying that the past doesn't need to be part of the present. Especially if the present isn't requesting it. It appears (we just don't know) that the Bills brain trust is actively seeking this out/running with it. If they actually are utilizing film study with Kelly to create new wrinkles with Josh based on those concepts, with Dabs as the gate-keeper, then I hope they will have your undivided support.
DC Tom Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: You must have had one! The rest of us were waiting for “You’re an idiot!” ? Okay. You're an idiot. 1 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Okay. You're an idiot. Should have opted for the Milky Way. I think the nuts make you cranky(er)... Edited June 4, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Added (er). It fits.
Not at the table Karlos Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 Didn’t read entire thread so I’m sure it’s been said already but Jim has said on many occasions that he has no interest in coaching. With his health I don’t see him changing his mind.
MJS Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 Pretty silly to assume that other teams don't have their past great players come in to help motivate their current players. That's very common.
Saxum Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: The failures need to go. If you really feel the need then demonstrate it not just say. Go. 3 hours ago, mcdamit said: Mr Sunshine Tim Graham I have met him and he resembles that remark.
BigPappy Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: BAGGAGE. People like you, people like DaBillzwhatever1973, people like vorpma IDOLIZE Kelly to the point where they're blind to his obvious weaknesses. And that idolization carries some really awful expectations, like somehow Jim's gonna lay hands on the kid and turn him into something THEY want Josh to be. Let the kid be himself. Let him grow into the role himself. Don't put an unnecessary albatross around his neck. Jim was a great QB. It's time, though, that he faded off into the sunset. He's had his day. Let this guy have his. WOW dude! You are pretty cynical not to mention over reaching in your statement. I am guessing because you are reading way to much into what YOU think was going on in those meetings. He was INVITED to talk with Daball and JA so that he could speak to his own experiences of what worked for him and what didn't in the scheme he ran while calling his own plays. They were looking for incite from someone who played the position and called his own plays, seemingly that it appears that JA may be calling his own plays (in what i am going to guess is) in certain game situations. I SERIOUSLY doubt that our current coaching staff wants to turn JA into a replica of Jim. More likely is that they want to take some of the strength that he had as a play caller and see if he can instill in JA some of that knowledge. As for your idolizing of Kelly comment, people can idolize someone for the memories they have from watching one of the greats play the game of football without overlooking their weakness's or flaws. It's called having respect for something some accomplished doing something they loved. Try showing some.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, BigPappy said: It's called having respect for something some accomplished doing something they loved. Try showing some. perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that Jim was a great QB. This isn't about trivializing his accomplishments. It's about having the franchise not mess with the current occupant of the position. 2 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that Jim was a great QB. This isn't about trivializing his accomplishments. It's about having the franchise not mess with the current occupant of the position. Common ground. Also, I think an analogy may be the presidency [DISCLAIMER NOTE: I am not trying to make this political by ANY means, so don't anyone else either please]. Any "current" president pick your era, would have faced unique geopolitical realities/challenges in an ever-changing world, which only they can or must deal with in the now. However, that same occupant would also most likely benefit from insights gleaned from previous occupants to that unique office, such as how to prioritize your day, multi-task, handle staff issues, the media, interacting with other world leaders on the world stage, what the White House cooks are best at, or that one thermostat that they just can't seem to fix right in the residence, etc. Am I making any sense?
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