/dev/null Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 Right now they're into the NFC West http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001031146/article/nfc-west-franchise-quarterbacks-each-teams-greatest-passer Franchise QB criteria are: Beginning in 1967 after the merger (Rules out Kemp) Minimum 48 Starts At least two of: Winning Record, Pro Bowl Selection, QBR > 75 Only Four Bills QB started at least 48 games: Ferguson had a losing record, never made a Pro Bowl, and had QBR under 75 Fitzy had a losing record, never made a Pro Bowl, but had a QBR over 75 Bledsoe had a losing record, but made a Pro Bowl, and had a QBR over 75 Jimbo meets all three requirements So by NFL.com's definition, the Bills have only had 2 "Franchise QBs" in the modern era. Jimbo and Bledsoe Our Longest Franchise QB Drought would be 1967-1986 with a dishonorable mention of the current 2004-Present (which hopefully ends with Allen's 48th start) Our Biggest Mistakes. Uhhhhhh, pull up a chair and grab a Snickers 1
Tatonka68 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 1. Jim Kelly 8 playoff appearances 4 Super Bowls 2. Jack Kemp 2 AFL Championships 3. Joe Ferguson 3 Playoff appearances 4. Doug Flutie 2 Playoff appearances 5. Drew Bledsoe nice stats Josh Allen ?????? Edited May 31, 2019 by Tatonka68 1
Nester Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 interesting topic. Clearly its Jim for us. Who would be the best QB in NFL history to not make this list? Steve Young? 1
gobills1212 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 With respect to the original poster (who i appreciate the effort- thanks) I didnt need SI to tell me what should be known by every Bills fan.... 4
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nester said: interesting topic. Clearly its Jim for us. Who would be the best QB in NFL history to not make this list? Steve Young? That or maybe one of Rodgers or Favre. Johnny Unitas?
LSHMEAB Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Nester said: interesting topic. Clearly its Jim for us. Who would be the best QB in NFL history to not make this list? Steve Young? Young is right up there. I'm going with Favre.
vincec Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) Ferguson is second. Anyone who thinks Fitz or even Bledsoe (in Buffalo) was better than him is not adjusting their statistics across the different eras. Actually I think that Kemp would probably be second best and he's not even eligible by these rules. 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Young is right up there. I'm going with Favre. Favre is GBs franchise QB per the article. Edited May 31, 2019 by vincec 2
vincec Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Nester said: interesting topic. Clearly its Jim for us. Who would be the best QB in NFL history to not make this list? Steve Young? Young has always been my guy. If I had to take a QB, he'd be the guy. Over anyone.
johnnychemo Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 Not only eras for Ferguson, but he had arguably one of the all time best running backs to hand off too, so of course the passing game would take a hit. He also played on some of the worst teams in that era as well. 1
LSHMEAB Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, vincec said: Ferguson is second. Anyone who thinks Fitz or even Bledsoe (in Buffalo) was better than him is not adjusting their statistics across the different eras. Actually I think that Kemp would probably be second best and he's not even eligible by these rules. Favre is GBs franchise QB per the article. Ah. Only saw the NFC West. I'd rank Rodgers ahead of Favre, but that debate is "in the eye of the beholder." Rodgers has the greatest passing numbers of all time. As far as the Bills go, that's an easy call for Kelly. Bledsoe shouldn't be on our list because most of his success came with NE. Edited May 31, 2019 by LSHMEAB
Doc Brown Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 40 minutes ago, Nester said: interesting topic. Clearly its Jim for us. Who would be the best QB in NFL history to not make this list? Steve Young? That would be a more interesting list. I'd pry go Unitas, Young, Favre, Roethlisberger, Starr in that order. Maybe Rivers at #6.
Albany,n.y. Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 It looks like they're using the traditional QB ratings. It's a stat I absolutely hate among the many QB stats that I hate. For example Rob Johnson as a Buffalo Bill had a passer rating of 85.5 while Jim Kelly had a passer rating of 84.4. (Kelly did beat RJ's 83.6 career record) So accordingly, in Bills history based on QB passer ratings RJ>JK-ABSURD!!!!! Also in terms of another over-worn stat, completion %, RJ in Buffalo 61.3% (60.5 career), JK 60.1%. Another stat where RJ > JK. This is why anyone in the media who uses any type of QB ratings, percentages, etc is dead to me. Just give me wins. A QB who wins > than any QB who has better stats. Yes I know the article uses a winning record as one of the variables, but they lost me the second they introduced a QB rating into the mix. Especially a ridiculous cut off of 75. Even Trent Edwards, JP Losman and EJ Manuel topped 75. So to put it in perspective , the 4 most vilified QBs in the drought years (RJ, JPL, TE, & EJM) all topped 75 career QB passer ratings. 1
Rico Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Nester said: interesting topic. Clearly its Jim for us. Who would be the best QB in NFL history to not make this list? Steve Young? Peyton Gump will have to take a seat to Johnny U, and I don't think he's beating Elway either.
whatdrought Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Rico said: Peyton Gump will have to take a seat to Johnny U, and I don't think he's beating Elway either. Maybe this is age bias, but Peyton behind Johnny U seems like a stretch to me... I didn’t get to watch Unitas so I won’t fight for it, but it’s hard to believe. Edited May 31, 2019 by whatdrought
Rico Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Maybe this is age bias, but Peyton behind Johnny U seems like a stretch to me... I didn’t get to watch Unitas so I won’t fight for it, but it’s hard to believe. I'd also take Bart Starr in a big game over Favre and definitely over Rodgers.
LSHMEAB Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Rico said: I'd also take Bart Starr in a big game over Favre and definitely over Rodgers. It's just so difficult to rank the guys who played in the 50/60's/70's vs. the guys who play today or recently. Bart Starr, for example, averaged 126 YPG passing during his career. I never saw him play, so I have no idea what to make of that. I'm sure he was great and it's likely he'd be putting up big time numbers in today's game, but I can't be sure. It's d*** near a different sport. Johnny U, on the other hand, averaged 190 YPG during the same era, which seems pretty amazing. Obviously there are factors that go into such statistics. Lombardi was a run first coach and the Colts were more progressive. Still, it's more and more difficult to truly rank all time greats as time passes and the game evolves. If you're into stats, it would seem that ranking players against their contemporaries would be one solid metric. That's for those of us that never saw guys like Starr or Unitas play. It's obviously easier to form a personal opinion if you did. Edited May 31, 2019 by LSHMEAB
whatdrought Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: It's just so difficult to rank the guys who played in the 50/60's/70's vs. the guys who play today or recently. Bart Starr, for example, averaged 126 YPG passing during his career. I never saw him play, so I have no idea what to make of that. I'm sure he was great and it's likely he'd be putting up big time numbers in today's game, but I can't be sure. It's d*** near a different sport. Johnny U, on the other hand, averaged 190 YPG during the same era, which seems pretty amazing. Obviously there are factors that go into such statistics. Lombardi was a run first coach and the Colts were more progressive. Still, it's more and more difficult to truly rank all time greats as time passes and the game evolves. If you're into stats, it would seem that ranking players against their contemporaries would be one solid metric. I think the biggest problem for me is that rankings such as these have intrinsic within them a level of personal feeling... you know what I mean- when you watch a guy play and you just know, he’s got it. Our brain creates a ranking that is rarely definable, but is none-the-less true to us. That being said, having not seen Unitas and Starr personally, im missing that element. 1
Rico Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: It's just so difficult to rank the guys who played in the 50/60's/70's vs. the guys who play today or recently. Bart Starr, for example, averaged 126 YPG passing during his career. I never saw him play, so I have no idea what to make of that. I'm sure he was great and it's likely he'd be putting up big time numbers in today's game, but I can't be sure. It's d*** near a different sport. Johnny U, on the other hand, averaged 190 YPG during the same era, which seems pretty amazing. Obviously there are factors that go into such statistics. Lombardi was a run first coach and the Colts were more progressive. Still, it's more and more difficult to truly rank all time greats as time passes and the game evolves. If you're into stats, it would seem that ranking players against their contemporaries would be one solid metric. That's one way to look at it. If you're talking about 'true franchise QB", I'm taking an indisputable class act and great leader in Bart Starr over two total POS. 3
416BillsFan Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 13 hours ago, Rico said: Peyton Gump will have to take a seat to Johnny U, and I don't think he's beating Elway either. I think it'll be PM based on the preamble that only SB-era years will be included. They specifically use him as an example: Because we only considered a player's performance from 1967 onward, some notable passers, such as Bart Starr and Don Meredith, aren't included, while others, like Johnny Unitas, only have post-'66 production factored into their franchise QB eligibility.
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