OBJ missing Cleveland OTAs

[BarleyNY]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:09 AM, mjt328 said:

Building a roster is more than just stockpiling talent.

That's one reason I'm skeptical about how far Cleveland goes, and more excited about where Buffalo is headed.

 

With the Bills, you can see players unifying around Sean McDermott and his vision.  You can sense Josh Allen rising to a leadership position, and the locker room lining up behind him.  Even the free agents who walked in the door 2-3 months ago... whether it be Cole Beasley standing up to defend the city, or the multiple offensive players who came here because of Allen's potential. 

 

Can you say the same about Freddie Kitchens and Baker Mayfield? 

 

 

Emphatically yes.  On all counts.  The only "issues" in Cleveland thus far are that OBJ only showed for one of the voluntary OTA practices and that the third string RB wants traded.  Incidentally he was the only other player not at OTAs.  As for FAs that came to a team because of the QB there it's worth noting that OBJ came to Cleveland in large part because of Mayfield while Allen certainly wasn't enough to make Antonio Brown want to come to Buffalo.  There's a lot to like about what is happening here in Buffalo - and I get the optimism - but there is real potential in places other than here.  Also let's be real, the Browns and Bills both added a lot of talent this off-season.  So have other teams.  None of them know how well they will mesh.  It's a bit much to see some people assume the best here and the worst elsewhere, especially when they obviously haven't even bothered to do their homework on the other teams and have a selective memory with the Bills.

[without a drought]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

The thread is about how his coach thought it was a big deal. Anyway, who are you referring to as the star players on new teams who chose  not to attend OTAs every year before this? 

I thought the media made the big deal out of it, including the 10 words used by Kitchens. I see it as his frustration with the same questions everyday and some will take those couple of words and build it into a story of it's own.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Emphatically yes.  On all counts.  The only "issues" in Cleveland thus far are that OBJ only showed for one of the voluntary OTA practices and that the third string RB wants traded.  Incidentally he was the only other player not at OTAs.  As for FAs that came to a team because of the QB there it's worth noting that OBJ came to Cleveland in large part because of Mayfield while Allen certainly wasn't enough to make Antonio Brown want to come to Buffalo.  There's a lot to like about what is happening here in Buffalo - and I get the optimism - but there is real potential in places other than here.  Also let's be real, the Browns and Bills both added a lot of talent this off-season.  So have other teams.  None of them know how well they will mesh.  It's a bit much to see some people assume the best here and the worst elsewhere, especially when they obviously haven't even bothered to do their homework on the other teams and have a selective memory with the Bills.

 

 

Empathically NO!!!  Only McD has the vision to unify players around HIM!  It cannot be replicated by others elsewhere!

 

Anyway, defending the city of Buffalo?  After Pegula made Beasely the 3rd highest paid slot receiver in the NFL, I bet he would have made a video entitled "2 girls, 1 slot receiver, 1 cup" if they asked him to...

Edited June 5, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, without a drought said:

I thought the media made the big deal out of it, including the 10 words used by Kitchens. I see it as his frustration with the same questions everyday and some will take those couple of words and build it into a story of it's own.

He should have known they would blow it up, but he’s a rookie coach. He will learn. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Emphatically yes.  On all counts.  The only "issues" in Cleveland thus far are that OBJ only showed for one of the voluntary OTA practices and that the third string RB wants traded.  Incidentally he was the only other player not at OTAs.  As for FAs that came to a team because of the QB there it's worth noting that OBJ came to Cleveland in large part because of Mayfield while Allen certainly wasn't enough to make Antonio Brown want to come to Buffalo.  There's a lot to like about what is happening here in Buffalo - and I get the optimism - but there is real potential in places other than here.  Also let's be real, the Browns and Bills both added a lot of talent this off-season.  So have other teams.  None of them know how well they will mesh.  It's a bit much to see some people assume the best here and the worst elsewhere, especially when they obviously haven't even bothered to do their homework on the other teams and have a selective memory with the Bills.

 

The Bills didn't want to pay AB as well as the compensation.  That's why he's not in Buffalo, not because of Allen.

[BarleyNY]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills didn't want to pay AB as well as the compensation.  That's why he's not in Buffalo, not because of Allen.

 

Sorry, I still don’t buy that at all.  The Bills side of the story came out well after Brown’s side, which was:

 

Rosenhaus tells Brown on the audio of the phone call: “Like when the Bills called me today, and they said if we make the trade what are you guys looking for? And I wouldn’t even give them a number because I know you’d rather not go there.”

“Yeah, don’t even waste time,” Brown replied.

“I really want you to have a good quarterback and to be in a ... winning environment, man,” Rosenhaus tells his client.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/26/antonio-brown-buffalo-bills-trade-nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-boomin-experience-podcast/

 

That the contract on top of the picks was too much in total was a reasonable, face-saving story by the Bills, but that’s all it was because it doesn’t make any sense.  $11.2M over 3 years is the difference we are talking about here, right?  $3.7M/season is not that much money.  Also it makes no sense that the draft compensation would not have been negotiated down to closer to what the Raiders paid if the Bills had balked at the combination.  Hell, why wasn’t that even discussed?  Why did we just walk away?  Why wouldn’t we have made some sort of counter to the Steelers?  Sorry, Brown’s story makes sense and came out before he even made a decision about where to play.  The Bills story just doesn’t make sense.

 

The funny thing is that Brown has to play with Carr on a poor team.  But maybe he just wanted to move to Las Vegas and get paid or play for a perennial winner and get paid.  I don’t know.  But he sure didn’t want to play here with Allen - even if that choice was a big mistake.  Lastly, let me just reiterate that I’m glad he’s not here.  The Bills dodged a bullet IMO, but they did disappoint me by even trying to trade for him.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Sorry, I still don’t buy that at all.  The Bills side of the story came out well after Brown’s side, which was:

 

Rosenhaus tells Brown on the audio of the phone call: “Like when the Bills called me today, and they said if we make the trade what are you guys looking for? And I wouldn’t even give them a number because I know you’d rather not go there.”

“Yeah, don’t even waste time,” Brown replied.

“I really want you to have a good quarterback and to be in a ... winning environment, man,” Rosenhaus tells his client.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/26/antonio-brown-buffalo-bills-trade-nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-boomin-experience-podcast/

 

That the contract on top of the picks was too much in total was a reasonable, face-saving story by the Bills, but that’s all it was because it doesn’t make any sense.  $11.2M over 3 years is the difference we are talking about here, right?  $3.7M/season is not that much money.  Also it makes no sense that the draft compensation would not have been negotiated down to closer to what the Raiders paid if the Bills had balked at the combination.  Hell, why wasn’t that even discussed?  Why did we just walk away?  Why wouldn’t we have made some sort of counter to the Steelers?  Sorry, Brown’s story makes sense and came out before he even made a decision about where to play.  The Bills story just doesn’t make sense.

 

The funny thing is that Brown has to play with Carr on a poor team.  But maybe he just wanted to move to Las Vegas and get paid or play for a perennial winner and get paid.  I don’t know.  But he sure didn’t want to play here with Allen - even if that choice was a big mistake.  Lastly, let me just reiterate that I’m glad he’s not here.  The Bills dodged a bullet IMO, but they did disappoint me by even trying to trade for him.

 

You buy that Carr and the Raiders are a "winning environment (man)."

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You buy that Carr and the Raiders are a "winning environment (man)."

AB will soon find out that Carr isn’t Big Ben. Not even close. Big Ben made AB. I’m gonna enjoy watching Carr unmake him.

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Doc said:

 

You buy that Carr and the Raiders are a "winning environment (man)."

 

No.  I said as much in the post you quoted.  I think AB is an idiot.  He was an absolute tool to the Bills and if he had been either a decent or smart person, then he’d have handled the situation discretely.  I also think he ran himself out of options.

 

As for the Bills, what were they supposed to do at that point?  Not really much to be done except what they did do - publicly say they weren’t interested anymore and tell everyone it was because of AB’s contract demands.  That way they couldn’t be used as leverage.  It’s not like they did anything wrong (except pursue AB in the first place).

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

No.  I said as much in the post you quoted.  I think AB is an idiot.  He was an absolute tool to the Bills and if he had been either a decent or smart person, then he’d have handled the situation discretely.  I also think he ran himself out of options.

 

As for the Bills, what were they supposed to do at that point?  Not really much to be done except what they did do - publicly say they weren’t interested anymore and tell everyone it was because of AB’s contract demands.  That way they couldn’t be used as leverage.  It’s not like they did anything wrong (except pursue AB in the first place).

 

So if you don't believe that Carr and the Raiders are a winning environment, why do you think AB agreed to be traded there?  Yes, because they were willing to give into his contract demands and the Steelers trade compensation.  That Raiders won't be good anytime within the 2 years that AB will be there.

 

Talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Doc

[LSHMEAB]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So if you don't believe that Carr and the Raiders are a winning environment, why do you think AB agreed to be traded there?  Yes, because they were willing to give into his contract demands and the Steelers trade compensation.  That Raiders won't be good anytime within the 2 years that AB will be there.

 

Talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.

He stated that AB probably wanted to play for a perennial winner with an established QB OR play in Vegas. I don't even know that Gruden believes he's building a winner.

 

There was also the weird "like" on Twitter that went something along the lines of "AB isn't going to Buffalo to play with a run first QB."

 

Now we can break that down and criticize AB for not understanding Allen's situation last season and being short sighted. Nevertheless, it makes no sense that the Bills would have been willing to go ALL the way and balk at 3.7 mil/season. It's possible that Brown made a huge mistake. But nothing about the story leads me to believe it wasn't AB who nixed the deal.

 

Probably better off that Allen doesn't have AB in his ear 24/7 anyways. THAT'S the positive.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

44 minutes ago, K-9 said:

AB will soon find out that Carr isn’t Big Ben. Not even close. Big Ben made AB. I’m gonna enjoy watching Carr unmake him.

 

 

...WHOA!....stop right there.......Terrell Davis said on NFLN that "AB is far better off with Raiders and the improving Carr versus a potentially disastrous QB situation in Bflo".....now who should I believe??........he is a HOF'er you know....

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

So if you don't believe that Carr and the Raiders are a winning environment, why do you think AB agreed to be traded there?  Yes, because they were willing to give into his contract demands and the Steelers trade compensation.  That Raiders won't be good anytime within the 2 years that AB will be there.

 

Talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.

 

As I said in my previous post, I think he ran himself out of options.  He had a bunch of suitors when he disrespected the Bills.  I’m not sure why he chose the Raiders (as I also said previously), but I am sure that the contract played a major part.  But I’d bet that the Bills would’ve paid him that too if the trade compensation was in the realm of what the Raiders gave up. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

He stated that AB probably wanted to play for a perennial winner with an established QB OR play in Vegas. I don't even know that Gruden believes he's building a winner.

 

There was also the weird "like" on Twitter that went something along the lines of "AB isn't going to Buffalo to play with a run first QB."

 

Now we can break that down and criticize AB for not understanding Allen's situation last season and being short sighted. Nevertheless, it makes no sense that the Bills would have been willing to go ALL the way and balk at 3.7 mil/season. It's possible that Brown made a huge mistake. But nothing about the story leads me to believe it wasn't AB who nixed the deal.

 

Probably better off that Allen doesn't have AB in his ear 24/7 anyways. THAT'S the positive.

 

Look, if it were a team other than one like the Raiders, I’d agree. But if most people know they’re not going to contend for a SB in the 2 years he’s going to be there, then it’s about money.  Saying “well, I’ll play for a contender or in Vegas” sounds like face-saving. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...UH OH....MORE UNREST..  sounds like the implosion is progressing...............

 

Report: Browns' Kitchens having issues with offensive coordinator

Dallas Robinson, Pro Football Rumors

13 hrs ago

 

New Cleveland Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens hired former Buccaneers offensive coordinator Todd Monken for the same role, but Monken’s transition has reportedly not gone well, according to Mike Silver of NFL.com (Twitter link). 

 

In turn, Kitchens has been forced to play a larger-than-expected role in “spearheading” Cleveland’s offense, per Silver. Kitchens had already been planning to call offensive plays in 2019, so it’s unclear what the issue regarding Monken might be. 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-browns-kitchens-having-issues-with-offensive-coordinator/ar-AACQZW8?li=BBnba9I

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...UH OH....MORE UNREST..  sounds like the implosion is progressing...............

 

Report: Browns' Kitchens having issues with offensive coordinator

Dallas Robinson, Pro Football Rumors

13 hrs ago

 

New Cleveland Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens hired former Buccaneers offensive coordinator Todd Monken for the same role, but Monken’s transition has reportedly not gone well, according to Mike Silver of NFL.com (Twitter link). 

 

In turn, Kitchens has been forced to play a larger-than-expected role in “spearheading” Cleveland’s offense, per Silver. Kitchens had already been planning to call offensive plays in 2019, so it’s unclear what the issue regarding Monken might be. 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-browns-kitchens-having-issues-with-offensive-coordinator/ar-AACQZW8?li=BBnba9I

 

 

 

How about where the vets confronted Mayfield this week about his ill-advised comments about Duke Johnson? He needs to keep his mouth shut. 

[BarleyNY]

40 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

How about where the vets confronted Mayfield this week about his ill-advised comments about Duke Johnson? He needs to keep his mouth shut. 

 

I don’t think you can take anything regarding the Browns seriously when it comes from Mike Silver.  He’s been a huge Hue Jackson sycophant for a long time and it is well known.  Here’s a tweet from PFT’s managing editor:

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by BarleyNY