Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 I’ll give it a shot: Belichick Payton Reid Pederson Reich Carroll Harbaugh Tomlin McVay Lynn Nagy Arians McDermott Shanahan Zimmer Rivera Kitchens Quinn Garrett Vrabel O’Brien Taylor Kingsbury LaFleur Fangio Marrone Jon Gruden Jay Gruden Gase Flores Patricia Shurmur
whatdrought Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 Lulz at wonder-boy at #2... I hope he uses plenty of talcum powder to keep things dry with all the slobbering people do over his overrated self. There is no rational explanation for Sean McVey being ranked higher than Doug Pederson.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 7 hours ago, dma0034 said: Looks like they put a lot of blame on him for "regressing". People in the media don't care about the Bills. McDermott is a top 10 coach. Besides being the Bills coach, what in his resume says he is a top 10 coach? His 1 for 10 on challenges? His 15-17 record? Getting outscored by 105 and 57 points his first 2 years? Hiring 2 OCs that have had the 29 and 30 ranked offense? Starting Peterman? i think McDermott is a very good defensive coach. But like most nfl coaches, he is a dime a dozen. I think he is a nice guy who you would like to play for but I don’t see anything special he really does. However if Allen is really good, he will be a good coach. I think if this team doesn’t get at least 8 wins and show improvement on offense, his job might be on the line. 1
cage Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’ll give it a shot: Belichick Payton Reid Pederson Reich Carroll Harbaugh Tomlin McVay Lynn Nagy Arians McDermott Shanahan Zimmer Rivera Kitchens Quinn Garrett Vrabel O’Brien Taylor Kingsbury LaFleur Fangio Marrone Jon Gruden Jay Gruden Gase Flores Patricia Shurmur I think I would rank Rivera, Garrett, O'Brien and possibly Vrabel ahead of McD. Difficult to put him in the top half of the league at this stage. Rivera's been to a Super Bowl. Garrett's had multiple playoff appearances. O'Brien won his division last year with 11 wins where he finished ahead of Colts with Reich ranked in the top 10. I'm still thinking about McD v Vrabel... however, that would land McD at #17, which is probably about fair Edited May 30, 2019 by cage 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Lulz at wonder-boy at #2... I hope he uses plenty of talcum powder to keep things dry with all the slobbering people do over his overrated self. There is no rational explanation for Sean McVey being ranked higher than Doug Pederson. Maybe that McVay has a better record? ?
whatdrought Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Maybe that McVay has a better record? ? I found this for you: http://www.espn.com/nfl/superbowl/history/winners LII Feb. 4, 2018 U.S. Bank Stadium (Minneapolis) Philadelphia 41, New England 33 LIII Feb. 3, 2019 Mercedes-Benz Stadium (Atlanta) New England 13, Los Angeles Rams 3 You can argue record if you want, but that one says all that needs to be said. Also, if you remove Pedersons first year with the team and only compare the past two years you end up with this final breakdown: Pederson: 26-11 McVey: 26-10 Edited May 30, 2019 by whatdrought 1
BillsVet Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 6 hours ago, mykidsdad said: It's nearly impossible to grade a coach after two years with all of the roster turnover. And frankly how do you grade coach and not grade a coach as a coach-GM team. It's about the Johns and the Joes, not the X's and O's, right? Agreed. McD should be graded not only on W-L, but also for personnel strategy over the 2017 and 2018 off-seasons. He's running the show on personnel more than any previous Bills HC and the focus on defense before offense in 2017-18 demonstrates that. I want to see whether McD adapts to the modern game or remains a HC who plays it safe on offense and tries to keep games close with strong defense. He's into the 3rd off-season of running his defense and is now doing it with his guys. The question is whether he gives the offense more freedom, particularly after the spending spree this past off-season. Because if it's going to be a run oriented offense with a pedestrian passing game I think the ceiling for such a team is probably 9-7. McD has a lot to prove. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I found this for you: http://www.espn.com/nfl/superbowl/history/winners LII Feb. 4, 2018 U.S. Bank Stadium (Minneapolis) Philadelphia 41, New England 33 LIII Feb. 3, 2019 Mercedes-Benz Stadium (Atlanta) New England 13, Los Angeles Rams 3 You can argue record if you want, but that one says all that needs to be said. So Brian Billick is a better coach than Marv Levy?
whatdrought Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: So Brian Billick is a better coach than Marv Levy? And according to your argument that record without context is the determining factor, Mike McCarthy is a better coach than Bill Walsh. I'm saying that Pederson has accomplished more than McVey in the last two years by a huge margin when you look at the injuries and other issues he has overcome, and the main evidence of that fact is that he won the Superbowl against the very same team that bent McVey over. It's not just record, and It's not just Superbowls. It's the whole body of work. McVey is incredibly overrated.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, whatdrought said: And according to your argument that record without context is the determining factor, Mike McCarthy is a better coach than Bill Walsh. I'm saying that Pederson has accomplished more than McVey in the last two years by a huge margin when you look at the injuries and other issues he has overcome, and the main evidence of that fact is that he won the Superbowl against the very same team that bent McVey over. It's not just record, and It's not just Superbowls. It's the whole body of work. McVey is incredibly overrated. I think Pederson is a good coach. I just think you are completely overrating the SB win in the big picture. McVay took over a 4-12 team and has gone 24-8 and made a guy people called a bust into a MVP candidate. Pederson took over a 7-9 team and has gone 29-19. Agaim, they are both good coaches. I just think McVay is better. 1
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Besides being the Bills coach, what in his resume says he is a top 10 coach? His 1 for 10 on challenges? His 15-17 record? Getting outscored by 105 and 57 points his first 2 years? Hiring 2 OCs that have had the 29 and 30 ranked offense? Starting Peterman? i think McDermott is a very good defensive coach. But like most nfl coaches, he is a dime a dozen. I think he is a nice guy who you would like to play for but I don’t see anything special he really does. However if Allen is really good, he will be a good coach. I think if this team doesn’t get at least 8 wins and show improvement on offense, his job might be on the line. with our roster last year, we should have been 4-12 at best. McD seems to squeeze an extra couple wins out of every roster. That's a better mark of coaching than overall win-loss. And this is just silly: "I think he is a nice guy who you would like to play for but I don’t see anything special he really does." McD has a very goal-focused, motivational style vaguely termed "The Process" that some players wouldn't like but others eat up. He instills intensity in every team activity. Some may not appreciate that his focus on work ethic and 24/7/365 personal improvement in all things (not just football) flows from an evangelical, almost Puritanical Christian faith identity. It does not work for everyone. But those who buy in become hard-core Process converts. It is not totally unique in football, but it is not "a dime a dozen." Love it or hate it, the Process is special.
oldmanfan Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 It's silly to rank any guy who has never coached a game in the NFL before. Again, this is what happens when you have to fill a website every day with stuff. Guys write nonsense just to fill a space.
whatdrought Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think Pederson is a good coach. I just think you are completely overrating the SB win in the big picture. McVay took over a 4-12 team and has gone 24-8 and made a guy people called a bust into a MVP candidate. Pederson took over a 7-9 team and has gone 29-19. Agaim, they are both good coaches. I just think McVay is better. But what does it matter if they can't win the Superbowl? I think you're underrating the Superbowl win because of what it shows- Pederson outcoached the GOAT, McVey fell like a paper house before him. Its a unique look because it was the same dang team. More to the point, McVey did a good job turning them around, no doubt (though you have to wonder how much of that proves his predecessors complete BS), but last year they bought a team to be able to win. They went out and bought all of the pieces needed and came short. Meanwhile, Pederson did the job with a team absolutely depleated by injury. As far as Goff goes, the same team that made him look like a bust made Pederson's Superbowl MVP look like a bust too.. Pederson's regular season win % is .604 compared to McVay's .750. Pederson's playoff win % is .800 compared to McVay's .500 That paints an obvious picture to me... Pederson has won more when it's counted, and he's done it against the odds and with beat up rosters. Besides, as useful as this conversation has been, I think the disagreement is probably a toss up anyways- I just can't stand the hype for McVey. So I will agree to disagree with you as long as we can agree that Gase ranked anywhere above like 30 is a criminal act of idiocy. Edited May 30, 2019 by whatdrought
MJS Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 Really the ranking should just be by their overall win percentage with an adjustment for playoff wins, conference championship wins, and Superbowl wins. Literally the only thing that matters for a coach is winning.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 8 hours ago, MJS said: Win games and the meaningless rankings will be more favorable. Winning cures everything. So if that's case who needs a pundit to tell you anything? Just look at the standings.
MJS Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: So if that's case who needs a pundit to tell you anything? Just look at the standings. Great point. Let's fire the pundits.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, whatdrought said: But what does it matter if they can't win the Superbowl? I think you're underrating the Superbowl win because of what it shows- Pederson outcoached the GOAT, McVey fell like a paper house before him. Its a unique look because it was the same dang team. More to the point, McVey did a good job turning them around, no doubt (though you have to wonder how much of that proves his predecessors complete BS), but last year they bought a team to be able to win. They went out and bought all of the pieces needed and came short. Meanwhile, Pederson did the job with a team absolutely depleated by injury. As far as Goff goes, the same team that made him look like a bust made Pederson's Superbowl MVP look like a bust too.. Pederson's regular season win % is .604 compared to McVay's .750. Pederson's playoff win % is .800 compared to McVay's .500 That paints an obvious picture to me... Pederson has won more when it's counted, and he's done it against the odds and with beat up rosters. Besides, as useful as this conversation has been, I think the disagreement is probably a toss up anyways- I just can't stand the hype for McVey. So I will agree to disagree with you as long as we can agree that Gase ranked anywhere above like 30 is a criminal act of idiocy. He’s coached 2 seasons and is like 32! Man, we would have a riot if McVay was our coach and wasn’t ranked in the top 3.
whatdrought Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: He’s coached 2 seasons and is like 32! Man, we would have a riot if McVay was our coach and wasn’t ranked in the top 3. Who cares how old he is? He's worshiped as a prodigy and he is a good coach and may have a great future, but he hasn't shown enough to be ranked as the second best coach in the NFL. Now, if the ranking is also taking into account potential for growth, that's fine. But He hasn't done more than Sean Peyton or Doug Pederson.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, cage said: I think I would rank Rivera, Garrett, O'Brien and possibly Vrabel ahead of McD. Difficult to put him in the top half of the league at this stage. Rivera's been to a Super Bowl. Garrett's had multiple playoff appearances. O'Brien won his division last year with 11 wins where he finished ahead of Colts with Reich ranked in the top 10. I'm still thinking about McD v Vrabel... however, that would land McD at #17, which is probably about fair There is definitely room to move people around. I tried to do it without too much “resume factoring.” Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl and I don’t think he’s very good. My approach was pretty simple, “if my team could pick any current HC, what’s the order that I would draft them in?” So, while there is some “resume factoring” I really tried to look more at their coaching ability (or at least my perception of it). 2
row_33 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 8 hours ago, MJS said: Win games and the meaningless rankings will be more favorable. Winning cures everything. Gruden (Raiders) is the biggest drop in expectations on the list maybe the writers should read the threads on here about Allen's cakewalk to the MVP this upcoming season, then they will get it right. 1 1
Recommended Posts