chris heff Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, FLFan said: Looking beyond the score, Jackson is still "intellectually challenged" to put it in a nice way, and not a particularly talented quarterback. https://247sports.com/Article/How-Lamar-Jackson-went-from-struggling-student-to-Heisman-contender-47448027/ After moving to Boynton Beach, with pressure from his coach he maintained straight A grades. Why would you call this young man stupid when you have zero knowledge or expertise to do so?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, chris heff said: So the fact that Jackson recognizes he is gripping the ball wrong and is trying to correct it makes him stupid? Okay got it. ...NEVER used the word "stupid"......where the hell is your logic?.....graduating to the closed membership mega million dollar fraternity known as the NFL and you don't know how to GRIP THE DAMN BALL?.....um...ok...you win....and in recent news, an MLB draftfee was asked if his fastball was a a two seamer or four seamer and his answer was "huh"?.....I missed the memo...
LSHMEAB Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Logic said: Everyone jumped on the Lamar bandwagon early because the Ravens made the playoffs. I'm telling you, I think this kid's going to be a bust. He is NOT an NFL level thrower right now. Unless he makes serious strides, I see him having an RGIII level career. Jackson busting seems to be the overwhelming consensus on the board, so you're in the majority.
billsfan1959 Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Logic said: I was sooooo glad to find out that Jackson was never even CONSIDERED by One Bills Drive. I did not feel like going through the "he can run, but he must learn to be an actual QUARTERBACK completely from scratch!" song and dance with him. Although, ironically, I suppose people could say the same thing about Josh Allen... Not if they actually watched both of them play... 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: Jackson busting seems to be the overwhelming consensus on the board, so you're in the majority. ...you're astute and have been around long enough....what attributes do you see Jackson possesses to dispell the leap to "bust" label?...just curious..... 1
chris heff Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...NEVER used the word "stupid"......where the hell is your logic?.....graduating to the closed membership mega million dollar fraternity known as the NFL and you don't know how to GRIP THE DAMN BALL?.....um...ok...you win....and in recent news, an MLB draftfee was asked if his fastball was a a two seamer or four seamer and his answer was "huh"?.....I missed the memo... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dummy
billsfan1959 Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...you're astute and have been around long enough....what attributes do you see Jackson possesses to dispell the leap to "bust" label?...just curious..... I think it is too early to tell either way. While he didn't carry the Ravens to the playoffs and he played, by far, the weakest defenses (DVOA) of all the 2018 QBs, he didn't do anything to lose the games either. I think he has the most deficiencies in the passing game of the 2018 QBs; however, he is a tremendous athlete. I do not believe he will be a long time starter in this league; but, I do not think he will be a complete bust either. You never know, though. Again, it is too early to tell.. Edited May 27, 2019 by billsfan1959 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, chris heff said: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dummy ....translate......I'm too dumb.........
FLFan Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 24 minutes ago, chris heff said: https://247sports.com/Article/How-Lamar-Jackson-went-from-struggling-student-to-Heisman-contender-47448027/ After moving to Boynton Beach, with pressure from his coach he maintained straight A grades. Why would you call this young man stupid when you have zero knowledge or expertise to do so? Reading the hero worshiping puff piece you linked does not provide any more knowledge or expertise. There are many explanations for why he would suddenly become a straight A student in that situation and only one of them relies on intelligence. My observation of Lamar is quite the opposite, which includes the very damning article linked at the beginning of this thread. You are right - I do not know him but I would certainly not characterize him as smart based on what I have seen and heard. Perhaps unfair, but I was just sharing my observations.
Saxum Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said: This was my 1st thought when I saw the article. One would think it's pretty obvious that some things may change with the hiring of a new OC. Especially with Marty being replaced by Roman.
BarleyNY Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, MJS said: Sounds like Tyrod. "Keep him in the pocket and make him throw". Plenty of defenses know how to do that well. Sooner or later you have to be a QB and deliver the ball. Jackson will be a spectacular bust. Been saying it all along. Agree that Jackson is the same kind of QB as TT. Baltimore will play a similar style offense with probably more RPOs than we did with TT, but the focus on run game and deep throws will be similar. He’ll be able to do what TT did - beat the bad teams, be competitive with the mediocre teams and struggle with the good ones. Baltimore likely will have a very good defense so they could conceivably make the playoffs with him at QB.
Patrick Duffy Posted May 27, 2019 Author Posted May 27, 2019 44 minutes ago, chris heff said: So the fact that Jackson recognizes he is gripping the ball wrong and is trying to correct it makes him stupid? Okay got it. If he is a "QB", then he should know how to grip the ball, for the most part. Come on man. 1
LSHMEAB Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...you're astute and have been around long enough....what attributes do you see Jackson possesses to dispell the leap to "bust" label?...just curious..... I don't see him ever becoming a top QB, but I think he can be effective for awhile. He possesses the "gameday" intangibles you look for in a QB. What I mean by that is the ability to instinctively make people miss without getting blown up, make proper reads, hit guys in stride on the run, and take off if need be. Despite the MUCH discussed Wonderlic, I don't think think he has any issues in terms of recognition. Arm strength (49 MPH velocity)/accuracy are certainly issues. He's in a perfect spot right now with Roman, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had a really good season. The arm/accuracy issues will prevent him from ever becoming elite, but they won't prevent him from being effective. I doubt he'll be playing into his 30's because he relies too much on athleticism, so you're not getting a long career. It just seems that people are basing a great deal of their opinion on one disastrous half of football( IN THE PLAYOFFS). Never mind the fact that he almost lead a remarkable comeback with the entire crowd begging for Joe. So while he's not a franchise QB, I don't envision him as a total flop. JMO. In a sense, I compare his "complete bust" percentage to that of Josh Allen. It's very low. Just like Allen, he's too good in certain areas to just wash out of the league quietly. And the obligatory "Josh has far more upside as a passer"(which is true.) Edited May 27, 2019 by LSHMEAB 2
chris heff Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: If he is a "QB", then he should know how to grip the ball, for the most part. Come on man. Professional athletes make adjustments all the time. How often do you hear about footwork or mechanics? Or a golfer adjusting his grip. In this case it is another reason to pile on Lamar Jackson. Why vilify this particular young man? Is he a bad person? What is it about Lamar Jackson that has so many casting aspersions? His intelligence has been questioned, his athleticism has been questioned. I don’t get it.
Buffalophil1948 Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 I agree with him being a lot like TT. Greg Roman knows how to game plan with that type of QB. My question is how much did he work on his game during the off season? JA knows he has deficiencies and worked hard during the off season to correct them. He didn't show up the first day of OTA's not knowing how to hold the ball. Jackson has great athletic ability but where is his head at? Mama say I'm gonna be fine. I'm her little superstar
billsfan1959 Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I don't see him ever becoming a top QB, but I think he can be effective for awhile. He possesses the "gameday" intangibles you look for in a QB. What I mean by that is the ability to instinctively make people miss without getting blown up, make proper reads, hit guys in stride on the run, and take off if need be. Despite the MUCH discussed Wonderlic, I don't think think he has any issues in terms of recognition. Arm strength (49 MPH velocity)/accuracy are certainly issues. He's in a perfect spot right now with Roman, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had a really good season. The arm/accuracy issues will prevent him from ever becoming elite, but they won't prevent him from being effective. I doubt he'll be playing into his 30's because he relies too much on athleticism, so you're not getting a long career.. It just seems that people are basing a great deal of their opinion on one disastrous half of football( IN THE PLAYOFFS). Never mind the fact that he almost lead a remarkable comeback with the entire crowd begging for Joe. So while he's not a franchise QB, I don't envision him as a total flop. JMO. Good take. People forget how successful Roman has been with similar QBs. I would not be surprised at all to see Jackson have a good season.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I think it is too early to tell either way. While he didn't carry the Ravens to the playoffs and he played, by far, the weakest defenses (DVOA) of all the 2018 QBs, he didn't do anything to lose the games either. I think he has the most deficiencies in the passing game of the 2018 QBs; however, he is a tremendous athlete. I do not believe he will be a long time starter in this league; but, I do not think he will be a complete bust either. You never know, though. Again, it is too early to tell.. ...so do you think his tremendous athleticism can overcome he fundamental football deficiencies?....he is almost the antithesis to our Josh Allen......we principally knew of his purported fundamental football deficiencies primarily from urinalists' yips (YAWN).....but realistically, did we have any notion as to his athleticism considering what he displayed in 2018?...I'm always under my proverbial rock, but no way in hell did I ever imagine the lad's speed, agility and/or elusiveness for a youngster of his size..... 1
billsfan1959 Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...so do you think his tremendous athleticism can overcome he fundamental football deficiencies?....he is almost the antithesis to our Josh Allen......we principally knew of his purported fundamental football deficiencies primarily from urinalists' yips (YAWN).....but realistically, did we have any notion as to his athleticism considering what he displayed in 2018?...I'm always under my proverbial rock, but no way in hell did I ever imagine the lad's speed, agility and/or elusiveness for a youngster of his size..... I'm not sure anyone anticipated the level of athleticism displayed by Allen. In terms of Jackson, I do think he has more deficiencies in the passing game than Allen; however, he is not without some ability - particularly when he is using his athletic ability to create opportunities. so, in that sense, yes, I do think his athleticism, when used properly, can overcome some of those deficiencies. I think if anyone can bring out the best in Jackson's skill set, it will be Roman.
BarleyNY Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: If he is a "QB", then he should know how to grip the ball, for the most part. Come on man. It should be extraordinarily concerning that a second year, starting NFL QB is still working on holding the ball correctly. That in no way has anything to do with intelligence. Just now, chris heff said: Professional athletes make adjustments all the time. How often do you hear about footwork or mechanics? Or a golfer adjusting his grip. In this case it is another reason to pile on Lamar Jackson. Why vilify this particular young man? Is he a bad person? What is it about Lamar Jackson that has so many casting aspersions? His intelligence has been questioned, his athleticism has been questioned. I don’t get it. Not talking about a player with a good grip tweaking it or trying to change to a better grip. We are talking about a 2nd year, starting QB who isn’t consistently gripping a ball correctly. Very different things. Mechanical flaws tend to rear their ugly heads when a QB is pressured or otherwise stressed. It is genuinely difficult to make lasting changes to mechanics because those flaws are so ingrained into the player by the time they get to the NFL. Jackson has 2 years of QB in HS, 3 in college and this is his 2nd in the NFL. Not to say he can’t do it, just that he is fighting some bad odds. Of course, if the problems are due to the coaches trying to change his mechanics then maybe he’d be fine (or at least better off) if they just let him revert back to his old ones. Which is likely anyway. Still, basic mechanical issues at this point in his career should be a big red flag. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: I'm not sure anyone anticipated the level of athleticism displayed by Allen. In terms of Jackson, I do think he has more deficiencies in the passing game than Allen; however, he is not without some ability - particularly when he is using his athletic ability to create opportunities. so, in that sense, yes, I do think his athleticism, when used properly, can overcome some of those deficiencies. I think if anyone can bring out the best in Jackson's skill set, it will be Roman. ..THAT should be interesting...my closely connected buds to OBD said Roman went ballistic internally with the Cassel trade and having to work with Tuhrod.....seeing that Tuhrod was Wrecks' boy, wonder if Roman's firing lends credence to him not wanting to work with Taylor....Jackson is of a similar skill set IMO (but probably wrong)...
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