Gugny Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Flacco was 4-5 and had the same qb rating as Jackson. Flacco is definitely a better passer but Jackson provided a spark to that team. QBs don't have W-L records; teams do. And I have no faith, nor belief, in QB ratings. I will not deny that Jackson provided a spark. But leaving him in that playoff game was nothing short of asinine. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Good thing that OTAs means nothing. As much media as there is now, I miss the days when no one cared about practice. The Steelers have been pretty awesome. The Jets and the fins suck. It balances out. The Ravens have been a good franchise. ^ this guy
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, eball said: And this upsets you why? Are you now the self-appointed arbiter of fairness in QB critiques? I can't wait to see the conversation in here when Mahomes and the Chiefs' offense regress this season -- which they are almost certain to do. I just hate hypocrisy and people who talk out of both sides of their mouth. Easiest thing for me to do (like I used and what a lot of people do here) is make every excuse for Allen and pretend like I wanted him all along. Then the cult wouldn’t attack me have a different opinion. Hypocrites are the worst. And i I have no idea what the Mahomes’ point means? If he doesn’t throw 50 tds, he isn’t good or something? Weird point. 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: QBs don't have W-L records; teams do. And I have no faith, nor belief, in QB ratings. I will not deny that Jackson provided a spark. But leaving him in that playoff game was nothing short of asinine. I mean I get your point but at that point, he’s your future. If Allen was in a playoff game would we want him pulled? He sucked that game but actually made a few plays at the end. But i I fully agree he has a lot of work to do as a passer to be good enough. Tyrod did look fairly good in a Roman offense. 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: ^ this guy ^ this guy ?
Heitz Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Gugny said: I will not deny that Jackson provided a spark. But leaving him in that playoff game was nothing short of asinine. I watched that game in an airport - had a blast watching / chatting with Ravens fans as they dumped on their Playoff QB! And if they were, the non-Ravens fans were 100x worse ?
Gugny Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Heitz said: I watched that game in an airport - had a blast watching / chatting with Ravens fans as they dumped on their Playoff QB! And if they were, the non-Ravens fans were 100x worse ? It was one of the worst QB performances, ever. It was Peterman-esque.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: It was one of the worst QB performances, ever. It was Peterman-esque. A little dramatic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1021524-the-worst-qb-playoff-performances-in-nfl-history.amp.html the great Flacco went 13-30 for 141 yards, 3 ints and a 18 QB rating.
Gugny Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: A little dramatic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1021524-the-worst-qb-playoff-performances-in-nfl-history.amp.html the great Flacco went 13-30 for 141 yards, 3 ints and a 18 QB rating. Not dramatic at all. He was pathetic for the entire game. And I'm not comparing him to Flacco, or anyone else. I'm just saying that the dude sucks. And he REALLY sucked that day.
K-9 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, JohnC said: When the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson and especially after dealing Flacco the staff understood that he wasn't a conventional qb. That being so the metrics to judge him and his progress understandably would not be the standard evaluation that you would use on most qbs. I may be wrong and presumptuous but I doubt that he will ever be a pocket qb who goes through progressions. But that doesn't mean that he and the team can't be successful in their own unconventional way. I respectfully disagree with you that the Ravens aren't viewed by most people as a more successful/solid franchise than the Bills have been over the past decade or so. Hopefully, that perception and reality will soon change. But under Ozzie (now departed) and with Harbaugh as the coach this franchise has consistently been good and recognized for its competency. Disagree. If he can’t operate out of the pocket consistently, he has no chance of succeeding in this league. Zip, zero, nada, none. It really is that simple. Oh, they can design various gimmicks to hide the fact he can’t operate from the pocket and that will buy him some time in the league. But once teams “make him be a quarterback”, it’s all over as a starter. Edited May 30, 2019 by K-9
JohnC Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 39 minutes ago, K-9 said: Disagree. If he can’t operate out of the pocket consistently, he has no chance of succeeding in this league. Zip, zero, nada, none. It really is that simple. Oh, they can design various gimmicks to hide the fact he can’t operate from the pocket and that will buy him some time in the league. But once teams “make him be a quarterback”, it’s all over as a starter. He is not going to be a pocket passer who goes through progressions. That is not to say he can't make initial reads but there is a limitation to his ability to play in a conventional offense. His style of play is going to be different from the standard style of qb play in the NFL. Will it work? I'm not sure. The point of my prior post is that when you have a Lamar Jackson type of qb you can't run a Flacco type offense. You have to adjust the offense to suit the unconventional player. Will Jackson's limitations eventually be exposed and catch up with him? Probably so. But when the Ravens (Ozzie) drafted him they were well aware of what he could do and not do. Apparently there were willing to work with his limitations and strengths.
K-9 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, JohnC said: He is not going to be a pocket passer who goes through progressions. That is not to say he can't make initial reads but there is a limitation to his ability to play in a conventional offense. His style of play is going to be different from the standard style of qb play in the NFL. Will it work? I'm not sure. The point of my prior post is that when you have a Lamar Jackson type of qb you can't run a Flacco type offense. You have to adjust the offense to suit the unconventional player. Will Jackson's limitations eventually be exposed and catch up with him? Probably so. But when the Ravens (Ozzie) drafted him they were well aware of what he could do and not do. Apparently there were willing to work with his limitations and strengths. Well, I am sure and it won’t work. At least not for long. A QB must be able to operate from the pocket predominantly because the pocket offers more of the field to exploit and forces defenses to defend more area. If a QB can’t do that, it just makes it too easy for defenders. DCs don’t just defend what you can do, they they defend what you can’t do as well. I don’t believe for a second that the Ravens didn’t think they could develop him into a pocket passer as they designed schemes to maximize his other talents in the meantime. But those schemes are too simplistic in the long run and defenses will force him to beat them from the pocket sooner or later. If he shows he can, he can have a long career. If he can’t, he won’t. Like I said, it’s that simple.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: True Freshman Eddie O vs Lamar ...smart move for Harbaugh to sign his extension quickly....stay tuned..............
K-9 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: True Freshman Eddie O vs Lamar Louisville was the 5th ranked team in the country going into that game? Unbelievable. 1
LSHMEAB Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 Jackson wasn't nearly as bad in that playoff game as the absurd miscues would lead one to believe. He threw for 194 yards 2 TD's/1 pick and ran for another 54 as the youngest player to ever start a playoff game. They were dead in the water, crowd begging for Joe, and he almost brought them all the way back. They lost by 6 points. The 3 fumbles, however, were unacceptable and ultimately cost them the game. His percentage was also terrible and he dug them into the hole in the first place. It wasn't ALL bad though. Josh Allen has far more upside as an all around QB, but the Jackson stuff is a little over the top.
GoBills808 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Jackson wasn't nearly as bad in that playoff game as the absurd miscues would lead one to believe. He threw for 194 yards 2 TD's/1 pick and ran for another 54 as the youngest player to ever start a playoff game. They were dead in the water, crowd begging for Joe, and he almost brought them all the way back. They lost by 6 points. The 3 fumbles, however, were unacceptable and ultimately cost them the game. His percentage was also terrible and he dug them into the hole in the first place. It wasn't ALL bad though. Josh Allen has far more upside as an all around QB, but the Jackson stuff is a little over the top. You can’t just use those stats though, that was the definition of garbage time. Jackson cost them that game 100%. He was awful when it mattered. Ravens defense was the only reason that game was close enough for him to get some positive statistics when it was out of their reach...I mean their first half possessions went punt fumble punt punt INT punt. He was laughably bad that game. 1
Rochesterfan Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 11 hours ago, ScottLaw said: It's more like 8-3 for NE including playoffs. But that 6-1 regular season record fits your argument better so I get it.? Two of those games were the AFC championship game in which Baltimore won one and should've won the other if not for Lee Evans. If your argument is the Ravens have been more consistent in wins because they play Cleveland twice then you are lost. The Bills play the Dolphins and Jets ever year. *****, the 4-12 Jets beat the Bills IN BUFFALO last season. Ravens are just a better run organization. It's not even arguable. It is not my argument you flat out stated: 20 hours ago, ScottLaw said: If I had to guess they are probably the most successful AFC team against the Patriots since their domination the past two decades. And I am pointing out in the regular season they are 1-6 - if they had played them nearly as many time as the Bills that would equate to 3-18 compared to the Bills 3-20 during that stretch. Not exactly successful- so you are flat out wrong. Even if you include the playoff wins - they are no where near the most successful AFC team versus the Pats during this run. Add in the fact that they play 0.500 against Pittsburgh and Cincinnati and beat the Browns at the same pace the Pats have beat the Bills. The Bills are playing 0.500 ball against the Fins and Jets and then dominated by the Pats. The Divisions matter. During Harbaughs’s time they were a consistently good team early - the last four years have been up and down with both the Bills and the Ravens making the playoffs once and the biggest difference being the one to two extra wins the Ravens get against their division rather than the Pats. But that is all theoretical- my point is you made a statement above to prove a point that Baltimore is probably the most successful AFC team versus the Pats and that is just false. Sorry
LSHMEAB Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, GoBills808 said: You can’t just use those stats though, that was the definition of garbage time. Jackson cost them that game 100%. He was awful when it mattered. Ravens defense was the only reason that game was close enough for him to get some positive statistics when it was out of their reach...I mean their first half possessions went punt fumble punt punt INT punt. He was laughably bad that game. Garbage time? Didn't they have the ball with a chance to win the game? Jackson fumbled. I'm sure you remember that part. There's no debate that he was abysmal in the first half, but it seems like quite a few people forgot they play 2. Edited May 31, 2019 by LSHMEAB
GoBills808 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Garbage time? Didn't they have the ball with a chance to win the game? Jackson fumbled. I'm sure you remember that part. There's no debate that he was abysmal in the first half, but it seems like quite a few people forgot they play 2. He was garbage the whole game. Racked up stats when it was out of reach. It was one of the worst performances by a QB I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen some bad ones. He looked clueless as did their whole offense. Seriously, rewatch it. They were running one-read high school concepts and while some of that was the Chargers defense it was also 100% a testament to how bad Jackson was.
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