BarleyNY Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Protocal69 said: When you look at Allen from pure passing numbers perspective he sucks. Now what is funny is that Sam Darnold gets all the praise in the world but from a pure passing numbers perspective his overall numbers are only marginally better than Allen. Sam Darnold was 1-9 in his last 10 games with his only win was against the BILLS where it took a special teams meltdown and 3 dimes from Darnold in the 4th to pull it out. Before the 3 dimes he looked like trash. I actually like Darnold but the gap between him and Allen is far less than what people make it out to be Who exactly is giving Darnold praise? Other than maybe the media who suck up to large markets? Honestly?
Ol Dirty B Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 1 hour ago, K-9 said: The analytics or bust guys simply never address their always present elephant in the room: their complete inability to quantify those intangible qualities that are just as important to being a successful QB as a completed pass. What do the analytic guys think of Russell Wilson or Mahomes? 2 hours ago, HOUSE said: Why doesn't this guy quit and give some poor kid a job Why don't you do the same?
Protocal69 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Who exactly is giving Darnold praise? Other than maybe the media who suck up to large markets? Honestly? The analytics people, most fans comparing the 2 QB, most of the media. Trust me I follow all 3 groups.
K-9 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: What do the analytic guys think of Russell Wilson or Mahomes? I’m sure they think they are great QBs because of their numbers. Perhaps you should ask one of them to be sure though.
Ol Dirty B Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, K-9 said: I’m sure they think they are great QBs because of their numbers. Perhaps you should ask one of them to be sure though. I'm saying though that while they can give great traditional QB play, they also largely rely on intangibles and praise them for it. I don't think they're completely blind.
Mr. WEO Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 If "Schatz is the first and certainly not the last", exactly how many analysts will go down on Allen?
TAinLack. Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 8 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said: Aaron was on WGR yesterday with an interesting position on Josh. He still does not "see" him as an NFL starting QB. Says he would like to see Bills fans rewarded but does not see Josh as likely to produce it. If I were doing the interview I'd have asked him about the basis for this, is it the numbers or some actual film review? IIRC, this was his predraft assessment based on his Wyoming stats and their correlation to historical projection and he's not bending it based on year 1 in the NFL. Assuming he is still focused on the numbers, I would have asked him what effect that the following would have on his numbers: 1) being the leader in depth to target 2) being amongst the top in dropped passes and throwaways/spikes 3) being near the top in throws under pressure I saw some Twitter chatter started by Bills reporters Sal Capaccio and Ryan Talbot. Here's the link to the latters' story: newyorkupstate " I-do-not-see-a-nfl-starting-qb-in-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-says-espns-aaron-schatz" I appreciate facts in any discussion and numbers are facts. But discussions need facts connected to meaning and context. It looks like if the Bills have a decent season, he already has an alternate explanation as to why it happened. I think Josh will be one of the alltime "scouts eyes and ears" vs. "raw analytics" cases in the NFL. Someone gets to tell the other side "I told you so." I would of loved to ask him what his analytics would give 6th round pick Tom Brady after one year?! Josh will be just fine, most likely better as well as the rest of the Bills team.
Success Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 Some had very fixed ideas about what kind of QB Allen would be coming out if college. It is very, very hard for some to admit they were wrong. 1 1
Kemp Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Success said: Some had very fixed ideas about what kind of QB Allen would be coming out if college. It is very, very hard for some to admit they were wrong. Did I miss the part where he proved them wrong?
John from Riverside Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, Kemp said: Did I miss the part where he proved them wrong? He is in fact proving them wrong you need to go back to what ppl were actually saying about him is he a finished product? No 1
JohnC Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 8 hours ago, HappyDays said: Did anyone else get a brain aneurysm trying to read this? Do you know what the definition of gobbledygook is? https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gobbledygook
BillyWhiteShows Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 It should be noted that Allen already has outperformed the prognosis that Schatz and others predicted during his rookie year. Football outsiders went on record saying that Allen was a parody of an NFL QB, and backtracking themselves from those comments now would only hurt their credibility even worse. As someone said old Schatzy is trying to hedge his bets. 2
GimmeSomeProcess Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 38 minutes ago, Kemp said: Did I miss the part where he proved them wrong? People said he’s a back up best. While mixed results, with poor talent, he showed he can lead a team. Compared to Peterman and Anderson, with the same talent looked like Elway.
Kemp Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: It should be noted that Allen already has outperformed the prognosis that Schatz and others predicted during his rookie year. Football outsiders went on record saying that Allen was a parody of an NFL QB, and backtracking themselves from those comments now would only hurt their credibility even worse. As someone said old Schatzy is trying to hedge his bets. He was the 30th ranked QB in the NFL. Outperformed whose prognosis? Mayfield, Darnold, and even Rosen were ranked higher. This is who he outperformed: Edited May 26, 2019 by Kemp
zevo Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 I think most of the argument for people like Schatz is in college Allen didn’t elevate the team around him...schatz and people like schatz believe that if success doesn’t come in college that it will not come in the pros. This is obviously not always the case....in this case I hope Allen shoves it up all their asses.
ganesh Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 9 hours ago, ExWNYer said: It's interesting to note that those in the national media who think the Bills are going to be bad think that Allen won't be any good (like Schatz) and those who think the Bills are on the rise think that Allen will be a good QB. Regardless of their stance, each side has seemed to draw a line in the sand based on their predetermined convictions and they are not going to budge. They will either crow when they are right or ignore it (and try to avoid eating crow) when they are wrong. Such is life in the 'hot take' world of social media. FWIW, Aaron Schatz is a frequent guest on 'Schopp & the Bulldog' and Mike Schopp worships at the altar of Schatz. Josh Allen has been one of the MOST Polarizing QB in football right from his high school days !!!! He will remain that until he retires from the NFL. There will be many who will root for this kid for his talent and the enthusiasm he shows on the field. There will be equal number of people who will provide their "analytic" view on his stats and his mechanics as the basis for their skepticism. That is how the Jost Allen world exists! 1
Kemp Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: People said he’s a back up best. While mixed results, with poor talent, he showed he can lead a team. Compared to Peterman and Anderson, with the same talent looked like Elway. Looked like Elway in any way? Really, that is absolutely comical. We don't know what will happen next season, but anyone who saw Allen as anything better than a terrible passer last year is cloudy in thought.
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