Malazan Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 So he has no details...no in depth information on why and doesn't really give a reason at all...so clickbait but it now has it's own thread because some poster here couldn't help himself so I guess it worked.. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Doc said: Opinions... I know right. If Allen was on the Fins, what would Bills fans’ opinions be after being a 56% passer in a lower D1 conference where he wasn’t on any of the All MWC teams; completed 52% of his passers his rookie year with 10 tds and 12 ints? I’m sure we would talking about how the Fins have a stud franchise qb. ? right or wrong, I try to be consistent. I didn’t want the Bills to draft Allen. I hate that I’m not blindly behind because I have serious doubts. I know he is a hard work and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I know people who have meant him and said he’s a good dude. But I need to see him win with arm. I think the Bills could have gotten him a better OC (I’m amazed how sold everyone is on Daboll) and a legit 1 type receiver. I do like the improved oline and he plays with a good defense to keep him in games. but to sum it up, if Allen wasn’t a Bill, fans wont be sold either (also silly to be sold on a qb after one year). I hate that I still have the doubts and there aren’t many things that I would love to be wrong on than Allen. But sorry. After years of defending every Bills qb (compare Losman and Favre’s 1st 2 years), I need to see it. So do non Bills fans. And hopefully, we do. 4 1
NickelCity Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 1 minute ago, 1billsfan said: I generally agree with this notion...however, the tone and exactness of his comments regarding Allen smacks of total disrespect regarding what this kid accomplished last season. Josh Allen will have a great platform to prove the doubters (though "haters" seems like a more appropriate term for this guy) wrong with the first game of the season being played on the road in the biggest media market on the planet. I'm glad we have Allen and am optimistic he can develop, but I wouldn't say he "accomplished" anything so cut and dry that opinions can't reasonably vary. The expectations for him are crazy high this season. I'm guilty of feeding that at times, myself. But my point is that the jury is still very much out and one could have watched all the snaps last season and have real concerns. Not "he's awful" concerns, but he needs to significantly alter portions of his game to be what we want him to be. I choose to believe he'll get there. 5
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I wish someone asked Aaron if he sees Josh Rosen as an NFL starting QB. As I recall, last year he was a big fan and one of the "Bills drafted wrong Josh" prognosticators. Wanted the Dolphins to draft Josh Rosen. Overall though, yes, you're right - Josh Allen is like a litmus test for "college analytics" vs "old-school scouting". I freely admit I wanted Rosen and didn’t want Allen. I think both guys played on bad offenses and I do think Rosen has it worse. They had very similar passing stats with Allen being a far superior runner. but it is beyond stupid to make any concrete judgments about either guy’s future after one season on a losing team. I also would struggle to respect an “analyst” who change their opinion based on a season. Either way, it’s pretty awesome that the division is Brady vs. the 3 1st rounders (and Fitz). Maybe the division can be interesting for the first time in forever. 2
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 25, 2019 Author Posted May 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: So he has no details...no in depth information on why and doesn't really give a reason at all...so clickbait but it now has it's own thread because some poster here couldn't help himself so I guess it worked.. I am quite sure he has some basis for his opinion. That is his job, opnions based on numerical analysis. Schopp and Bulldog did not ask him for his reasons which would have made the interview more interesting, imo. As for "clickbait" I doubt it applies to a WGR interview and an article in NYUPSTATE by Ryan Talbot. Those links do Aaron Schatz no benefit. He's an interesting listen because his opinions, although just as flawed as those from anyone else, are at least based on something tangible.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...will ALWAYS be doubters about him as well as others in the class....pfft.......I'm more inclined to read critical yet objective assessments by former NFL QB's (the stature of their careers is meaningless) as in Simms, Boomer, Dilfer, "Coach" Palmer or even our new "Coach" Dorsey and what they say, whether good, bad or somewhere in between (more than likely laying out pros and cons)....they are STILL connected to the game versus worrying about some urinalist typing away from under his desk...... With all due respect, besides playing, have those former QBs shown ability to scout qbs? John Elway, up there for best qb ever IMo, has been awful at evaluating qbs. Jim Kelly wanted Tebow. Michael Jordan has one of the worst franchises in the nba. Probably the best qb evaluator in the nfl is a former college linemen and Kool Aid man lookalike Andy Reid. Honestly, sometimes former players opinions are worse than nerds who get hurt playing flag football. Edited May 25, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 3
Augie Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Did anyone else get a brain aneurysm trying to read this? That does not instill confidence regarding his opinion. About anything. . Edited May 25, 2019 by Augie
HOUSE Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) Aqaron Schatz was a sports writer for WBRU in Providence RI and worked for The Boston Globe Broadcast area: Southern New England . I could have guessed that one.. http://www.sloansportsconference.com/people/aaron-schatz/ Edited May 25, 2019 by HOUSE 2
YoloinOhio Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 I’m pretty sure Josh is used to people not believing in him. It’s been that way his whole life. It’s part of what drives him so hard. He was never coddled, never propped up as a sure thing. I don’t see this as a bad thing, and I hope someone sends him the interview 4
BarleyNY Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I freely admit I wanted Rosen and didn’t want Allen. I think both guys played on bad offenses and I do think Rosen has it worse. They had very similar passing stats with Allen being a far superior runner. but it is beyond stupid to make any concrete judgments about either guy’s future after one season on a losing team. I also would struggle to respect an “analyst” who change their opinion based on a season. Either way, it’s pretty awesome that the division is Brady vs. the 3 1st rounders (and Fitz). Maybe the division can be interesting for the first time in forever. I agree. People have to understand that these analytics based guys are just talking odds in every case. Schatz simply talked about how he viewed a player predraft and that he hadn’t seen enough in that player’s rookie season to change his mind. He never even said that Allen couldn’t be a quality QB, just that he hadn’t seen it. That’s fair. Heck, he’s right. Allen showed some flashes last season - and a ton of heart - but he’s got a lot more to prove before any of us should anoint him a franchise QB. I’ll be rooting for him, but I’m not going to get ahead of things. I’m not going to cherry pick a game or other data and I’m going to rate him exactly like I would if he were the QB of the Jets, Vikings or any other team. He isn’t going to get bonus points for being a Bill and I’m rooting for him, or because I want him to succeed or because I know his back story. He’ll have to earn it. Edited May 25, 2019 by BarleyNY 4 2 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: With all due respect, besides playing, have those former QBs shown ability to scout qbs? John Elway, up there for best qb ever IMo, has been awful at evaluating qbs. Jim Kelly wanted Tebow. Michael Jordan has one of the worst franchises in the nba. Probably the best qb evaluator in the nfl is a former college linemen and Kool Aid man lookalike Andy Reid. Honestly, sometimes former players opinions are worse than nerds who get hurt playing flag football. ...NEVER said all...some but NOT ALL....friends of mine used to fly out to play in Elway's annual charity golf tourney......said he was a major egotistical, stand offish "Richard" and then some.....so how it that Denver QB situation doing John Boy?.. ...Kelly?.....sure a diehard Bflo fan but sometimes his yap gets the better of his brain....any news on his Bills Buying Group yet?....Simms, Dilfer, Palmer, Dorsey, etc remain respectfully connected for a reason.... Edited May 25, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy
Jay_Fixit Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...I wouldn't either......... He’s 5’9 and wears flip flops in public. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 Just now, Jay_Fixit said: He’s 5’9 and wears flip flops in public. ...heard pink WITH heels......uh oh............
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 25, 2019 Author Posted May 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I agree. People have to understand that these analytics based guys are just talking odds in every case. Schatz simply talked about how he viewed a player predraft and that he hadn’t seen enough in that player’s rookie season to change his mind. He never even said that Allen couldn’t be a quality QB, just that he hadn’t seen it. That’s fair. Heck, he’s right. Allen showed some flashes last season - and a ton of heart - but he’s got a lot more to prove before any of us should anoint him a franchise QB. I’ll be rooting for him, but I’m not going to get ahead of things. I’m not going to cherry pick game or data and I’m going to rate him exactly like I would if he were the QB of the Jets, Vikings or any other team. He isn’t going to get bonus points for being a Bill and I’m rooting for him or because I want him to succeed or because I know his back story. He’ll have to earn it. Seen is the operative word. Is he looking at his raw stats or is he actually watching him play? Schopp did not ask him. The basis for his unchanged view of his projection into the NFL is the most interesting part of the opninion and Schopp let it go unanswered. Numbers need meaning and context. Josh's scramble runs were analytically more productive than any other QB's checkdown passes. No one completes 100% of them for over 10 ypa. Josh's TD runs limited his passing TDs. Is there any more value to a passing TD than a running TD? The factors listed in the OP absolutely make completion % a lower number. I would want Schatz to put these into some context (rookie year, depth of target, drops, spikes/throwaways, % throws under pressure.) 2
GunnerBill Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I agree. People have to understand that these analytics based guys are just talking odds in every case. Schatz simply talked about how he viewed a player predraft and that he hadn’t seen enough in that player’s rookie season to change his mind. He never even said that Allen couldn’t be a quality QB, just that he hadn’t seen it. That’s fair. Heck, he’s right. Allen showed some flashes last season - and a ton of heart - but he’s got a lot more to prove before any of us should anoint him a franchise QB. I’ll be rooting for him, but I’m not going to get ahead of things. I’m not going to cherry pick a game or other data and I’m going to rate him exactly like I would if he were the QB of the Jets, Vikings or any other team. He isn’t going to get bonus points for being a Bill and I’m rooting for him, or because I want him to succeed or because I know his back story. He’ll have to earn it. Excellent take. 1
dubs Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) At this point in Josh’s career and based on what he did last year, there is absolutely no certainty on where his career will take him. He could be great, he could bust. Last year he showed a lot of promise but there are obviously still a lot of areas for improvement. But it on today’s world, everything gets put into a binary and Josh Allen is no exception. Pundits like Schatz must have an opinion and it must be one extreme or the other. Schatz, being on team nerd, is clearly going to fall into the Josh sucks camp. Edited May 25, 2019 by dubs
WideNine Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Did anyone else get a brain aneurysm trying to read this? “I’ve noticed a lot of optimism about the moves that the Bills have made in the offseason," Schatz said. "That they’ve made a lot of good moves. And here’s the thing, I think they’ve made a lot of good moves. The problem is that where they were going to be before those moves is not as good as I think where Bills fans think they would be before those moves. So even after making a lot of good moves, I’m not that optimistic about them.” So this guy who is a poster child for Orwellian doublethink is believable why? Football outsiders should just stick to crunching numbers and let those with working grey matter make sense of them. They would have more credibility if this guy never shares his conclusions again.
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