billspro Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 55 minutes ago, meh said: I don't see what all the fuss is over EO's weight. People though Aaron Maybin was too light too and just look at his dominance. Unfortunately Maybin was not a elite athlete. Below average NFL athlete and small is not a good combo.
Saxum Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Damn, he's getting held and triple teamed and still manages to get good pressure. Good prep work for Bills getting held and making plays anyways.
John from Riverside Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 3 hours ago, meh said: I don't see what all the fuss is over EO's weight. People though Aaron Maybin was too light too and just look at his dominance. Thank you for your contribution 1
mrags Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 13 hours ago, aristocrat said: dont you think donald bulked up as well? most guys do Donald consistently plays at 285. Where as Oliver played about 15lbs less. He bulked up to 285 for combine purposes. Then started to slim down again. Nobody is saying that it cannot be done. But comparing Oliver to Donald is just plain stupid. Donald is the exception, not the rule. He was looked at as undersized by everyone as well. U til he started dominating. Nobody is saying Oliver can’t be that. But at 285lbs or less as a DT in the Nfl, the odds are against him.
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: AAC =/= NFL. Know what I mean? (Edit) TL;DR version: you're lazy, I'm not When I see comments from media that say Ed is the "most likely to bust", it must be this train of thought, as well as the size factor. It's lazy, but it's kind of a "common sense", connect the dots mentality, similar to what goes on with mock drafts IMO. Its simply just trying to use perceived logic based on the data available in order to predict the future. But as we all know with mock drafts, that line of thinking, more often than not, leads to a false prediction. But hey, it can can get you a click or two... In Oliver's case, his main knocks are his size (based on general perception of NFL DT size), and the fact that he didn't play against a ton of top tier college linemen. Aaron Donald has proven that size isn't everything at DT (but lets face it, he is the exception to the rule). Same with John Randall (a player that's probably more comparable with Oliver). But what doesn't seem to be talked about much by the "outside" media, or at least the few Oliver critics, is what's going on "upstairs". John Randall is a HoFer, not just because of his physical talents, despite his size, but also because of his mental make-up. That's what seperated him from the rest, and it's not something that every great prospect has. A guy like Marcel Dareus has all the talent in the world for a man that size, and could have been one of the best DTs ever, but doesn't have what it takes upstairs to be great, to seperate himself from the rest...he is the rest now. Ed Oliver certainly seems to have the kind of head on his shoulders that you want in a player, to accompany that kind of talent. He knows and has publicly acknowledged the fact that he hasn't faced the best of the best, week in, week out, but is excited for the challenge. He has a very family oriented, hard working background. And when wacthing him play, his effort and relentlessness is undeniable. Aside from all of that, since being drafted, us Bills fans have taken notice to his mental make-up, and how genuine it is, whether it's his demeanor on draft day, to visiting Pancho in hospice (and still wearing the rubber bracelet he was given), or talking about his horses. He's a good dude! There was some question about his character because of the one small public issue with his coach, but I'm pretty sure that's been washed away for us by his actions since (and by the coach himself). I guess we'll all have to truly wait and see with Oliver, but I'm quite confident that he'll do just fine. Maybe he struggles a bit at times early in his career, or in certain situations throughout his career, but I have a hard time seeing him busting. Maybe he doesn't become a "John Randall", or even an "Aaron Donald" in the end, but I don't care what college you went to or what conference or level of competition...any player that plays out of his natural position and pushes the pocket with three guys trying to block you (one holding you), or consistently beating double teams, is on another level. Landing him at 9 is an absolute STEAL. ***And since I mentioned a former Alabama defensive tackle already, I'd like to say that I'm not sold on Quinnen Williams, not because I don't think he's a good player, but because I'm weary of players who may have plateaued a bit under a great college coach. He did play against some of the best in the country, but he also played for and alongside the best in the country. I'm not knocking the kid for it, but I'm sure his play did benefit from that to some extent. We're all a product of our environment. He, too, was drafted at 3, but I don't know if he'll quite live up to that status. Granted, he'll be playing next to a stud DT for the time being, but I just don't know how much better he'll become as a pro, and he may be near his ceiling already. I know there have been a few really good or great players from Alabama to play in the NFL since Saban took over, but there just seems to be many more players in that time that never lived up to their draft status, with a few busts sprinkled in. Perhaps there's a mental aspect to it that plays a role, from an overall program standpoint (the plateau idea), to an individual player's mental make-up standpoint. A lot of these high recruit guys come from rough backgrounds. To play for Alabama, you can't be a complete malcontent, but your head probably blows up a bit. And once you get to the NFL and get paid, it could be hard to handle and stay focused on being a great player (Marcel). I don't know enough about Williams to pass judgement, and maybe he has a few good years like Dareus did, but anyone that blesses themsleves in 3rd person on the mic during their first interview after being drafted may have some of that going on...call it strike one from me. Edited May 25, 2019 by Drunken Pygmy Goat
Turk71 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 "Oliver might be the biggest boom-or-bust candidate in this entire class. His athleticism has warranted some scouts to compare him to Aaron Donald, but Oliver is even more undersized than Donald was, as his playing weight was reportedly under 285 pounds. Because of that lack of size, some have called for Oliver to switch to linebacker. In the right scheme — where he can play nose tackle in a three-technique — Oliver could become an All-Pro. Teams may also discover this fall that he is a major project who has to switch positions if he can’t handle NFL-sized offensive linemen. " ---------------- ----------------- ----------------------- This is the yardbarker.com quote in the OP. These guys are full of crap. At the combine Donald was 6'1" 285, Oliver was 6'2" 287 and somehow Oliver is even more undersized than Donald? The authors brain must be undersized. Oliver was also quicker, jumped higher and further, and did just 3 less reps on the bench. 32 to Donalds 35. 1
Thurman#1 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 17 hours ago, Mark Vader said: They say that, because Aaron Donald has proven himself in the NFL. Yeah, thing is ... before Aaron Donald proved himself in the NFL ... they said the same things they're now saying about Oliver. Nobody's saying Oliver has proven himself in the NFL. What they are saying is that it has been proven - flat-out proven in several cases such as Randle, Donald and Ratliff - smaller guys who are very athletic can play Interior DL in the NFL and do very very well indeed. So the guys pretending to know that Oliver will get dominated because of his size are not even coming close to proving their cases.
aristocrat Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 4 hours ago, mrags said: Donald consistently plays at 285. Where as Oliver played about 15lbs less. He bulked up to 285 for combine purposes. Then started to slim down again. Nobody is saying that it cannot be done. But comparing Oliver to Donald is just plain stupid. Donald is the exception, not the rule. He was looked at as undersized by everyone as well. U til he started dominating. Nobody is saying Oliver can’t be that. But at 285lbs or less as a DT in the Nfl, the odds are against him. With the bills he will have a legit meal plan and trainers. He didn’t have that at Houston. It will be much easier to Manage 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 17 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: most likely to bust...Ed Oliver, defensive tackle, Houston...yeah okay dave holcomb, I'll really take your word for it...yardbarker, LOL The ‘bust’ awards are usually handed out after the third game of the season, right? ? Sounds about right for these football pundits. 1
cle23 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, aristocrat said: With the bills he will have a legit meal plan and trainers. He didn’t have that at Houston. It will be much easier to Manage I guarantee you he had that a Houston. D1 football programs have meal plans and trainers, and good ones.
aristocrat Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, cle23 said: I guarantee you he had that a Houston. D1 football programs have meal plans and trainers, and good ones. Not like you’d think
cle23 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, aristocrat said: Not like you’d think You have 1st hand knowledge of Houston's meal and training programs?
Royale with Cheese Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 39 minutes ago, aristocrat said: Not like you’d think I played college baseball for a mid major 20 years ago and I had meal plans and trainers.
aristocrat Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 40 minutes ago, cle23 said: You have 1st hand knowledge of Houston's meal and training programs? Do you think it’s on par with the bills? And won’t he have more time to concentrate on it?
thebandit27 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, thing is ... before Aaron Donald proved himself in the NFL ... they said the same things they're now saying about Oliver. Nobody's saying Oliver has proven himself in the NFL. What they are saying is that it has been proven - flat-out proven in several cases such as Randle, Donald and Ratliff - smaller guys who are very athletic can play Interior DL in the NFL and do very very well indeed. So the guys pretending to know that Oliver will get dominated because of his size are not even coming close to proving their cases. People really need to go back and read Donald's draft profile from NFL.com. Though some of us said we'd love to have him at 9th overall in 2014, he was hardly a consensus elite prospect. @K-9 posted it in another thread, and the revisionism about Donald's projection is pretty strong
MJS Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 19 hours ago, VW82 said: I remain terrified of this pick, and expect Oliver to have a rough transition to the NFL much like Edmunds did at times. I also thought Edmunds might have to change positions and those guys scare me. OTOH in two years it’s possible we have the best 3T/MLB combo in the NFL. I’d be more skeptical if it wasn’t McBeane taking/developing them. Edmunds was great. Not sure how anyone could have expected more from him in his rookie season playing a new position. 1
GimmeSomeProcess Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 22 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: That third one is my worry. NFL guards are just going to decimate the guy. He's REALLY light. Sure on run plays but in pass plays good luck, his get off is so incredible. You can’t block what you can’t touch.
Thurman#1 Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 3 hours ago, mrags said: Donald consistently plays at 285. Where as Oliver played about 15lbs less. He bulked up to 285 for combine purposes. Then started to slim down again. Nobody is saying that it cannot be done. But comparing Oliver to Donald is just plain stupid. Donald is the exception, not the rule. He was looked at as undersized by everyone as well. U til he started dominating. Nobody is saying Oliver can’t be that. But at 285lbs or less as a DT in the Nfl, the odds are against him. Yes, Donald is the exception not the rule. But there have been others, such as Ratliff and Randle. Yeah, you have to be very very athletic and very strong to do it. But Oliver is. Yeah, he'll have to prove it. But there's a reason he went in the top ten. He's got a good chance.
formerlyofCtown Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 22 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: most likely to bust...Ed Oliver, defensive tackle, Houston...yeah okay dave holcomb, I'll really take your word for it...yardbarker, LOL Maybe he meant Canton.
Augie Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 If Oliver bulked up for the Combine, he didn’t let it slow him down! His quicks be freaky!
Recommended Posts