MJS Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: 1 pick for say the next three years... who does he replace in the top 8? Even this year he's a hard pick because you just don't know if his body will hold up... If I had to pick a QB for one year right now it would be hard picking Brees or Brady. I'd take him over anyone besides maybe Rodgers.
LSHMEAB Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 The list is clearly placing weight on age and more of a "who would you choose to have for the rest of their career?" as opposed to who you'd take for one season. Pretty sure the OP stated as much. I think Winston has to be ahead of Mariotta, and Matt Ryan is way too high. Otherwise, solid.
thebandit27 Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Using DVOA for a receiver who averaged 60 yards per game doesn’t mean much. Especially since using DVOA as part of an argument towards the eliteness of a QB is reaching to begin with. And the fact the Seahawks led the NFL in rushing and Wilson still managed to throw 35 TD’s with and 8.1 Y/A and only 7 picks and a 110.9 QB rating does nothing but boost my argument. Again, as I said originally which was correct... Wilson is as elite as elite gets. Ok, so you've chosen to back up opinion with more opinion. That's fine, it's just not very persuasive
whatdrought Posted May 22, 2019 Author Posted May 22, 2019 29 minutes ago, MJS said: I'd take him over anyone besides maybe Rodgers. I can definitely see the argument for that. I guess my big hesitation is that Father Time is waiting in the wings and you wouldn’t want him to come around mid season. I did read somewhere that brees didn’t look great down the stretch. I don’t know personally about that, but it’s definitely a concern.
whatdrought Posted May 22, 2019 Author Posted May 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: The list is clearly placing weight on age and more of a "who would you choose to have for the rest of their career?" as opposed to who you'd take for one season. Pretty sure the OP stated as much. I think Winston has to be ahead of Mariotta, and Matt Ryan is way too high. Otherwise, solid. Yup! The choice of how to rank them was probably more subjective, but I did try to explain if. ? I guess that might be preference. I just see two inconsistent QB’s who aren’t franchise guys. Ones inconsistency is cause he’s hurt constantly, and the others is because he’s a head case. So it’s a pick your poison deal. That being said, I wouldn’t be shocked if Ariana turns Winston into a Star... but we’ll see. I disagree on Ryan. I think he’s easily a top 10 QB whose still relatively young. His biggest thing is that he’s been going against his Matty ice name the past few years. He needs to show he can win the big game. That’s what a lot of good QB’s need. 1
LSHMEAB Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: I can definitely see the argument for that. I guess my big hesitation is that Father Time is waiting in the wings and you wouldn’t want him to come around mid season. I did read somewhere that brees didn’t look great down the stretch. I don’t know personally about that, but it’s definitely a concern. That offense wasn't the same after the Cowboys matchup. Based on the eye test, both Brees and Brady lost velocity as the season progressed. Somehow, even with those diminished skills, Brady Brady'd. I believe that playoff run was the most impressive of his career BECAUSE of the arm issues. The guy was lunging to throw the ball 25-30 yards. At some point, the wheels are gonna fall off. These guys have had incredible careers, but time will beat Tom(and Drew). 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: Yup! The choice of how to rank them was probably more subjective, but I did try to explain if. ? I guess that might be preference. I just see two inconsistent QB’s who aren’t franchise guys. Ones inconsistency is cause he’s hurt constantly, and the others is because he’s a head case. So it’s a pick your poison deal. That being said, I wouldn’t be shocked if Ariana turns Winston into a Star... but we’ll see. I disagree on Ryan. I think he’s easily a top 10 QB whose still relatively young. His biggest thing is that he’s been going against his Matty ice name the past few years. He needs to show he can win the big game. That’s what a lot of good QB’s need. There's just something about Matty Ice. Don't trust him in big moments. Edited May 23, 2019 by LSHMEAB 1
Jay_Fixit Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Ok, so you've chosen to back up opinion with more opinion. That's fine, it's just not very persuasive This post ranks last in DVOA amongst posts in this thread.
whatdrought Posted May 23, 2019 Author Posted May 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: This post ranks last in DVOA amongst posts in this thread. Which is saying something based on how much people hate my ranking.. ?
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 8 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: This post ranks last in DVOA amongst posts in this thread. At least you're consistent in proffering nothing beyond unsubstantiated opinions.
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 Where do we factor in ‘desirability of QB’s domestic partner’? 1
SoTier Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 15 hours ago, BuffAlone said: Allen behind Jimmy G? You lost street cred with this Watson ahead of Rivers? Good grief I think Allen won as many games in 2018 as Garoppollo has won in his entire career, so neither has done anything in the NFL. I think both should be lower simply because both are unproven along with Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, Haskins etc. I would put all of these unproven guys in the lower third of the rankings since they're all resting on hopes rather than actual production.
TonyBeets Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) The one I most disagree with is Derek Carr. He has been a part of a coaching carousal for his career. Last year he had the same lack of talent at WR as Josh Allen to put things in perspective. He still threw for over 4k yards. Edited May 23, 2019 by TonyBeets
Jay_Fixit Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: At least you're consistent in proffering nothing beyond unsubstantiated opinions. Yet still my opinions have provided more to my correct side of the argument than your stomping your feet and crossing your arms saying “No.”
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Yet still my opinions have provided more to my correct side of the argument than your stomping your feet and crossing your arms saying “No.” Making things up is a generally horrible approach to persuasive argument development. If you cared to read, my first response on Wilson was that I wouldn't argue too much if someone wanted to put him in the elite tier, so while your "stomping" statement is cute and all, it's brutally misplaced and borders on absurd. What I said is that simply making a declaration with zero context whatsoever doesn't make for a compelling case, and frankly your posts since that original one have more or less gone south. Which is disappointing because I tried to engage with actual stats and context, but that went wayward as well. If you simply want to have your opinion accepted as fact without any real substantive discussion, then just say so and we don't need to get into the silliness you've spiraled into. Otherwise consider the idea that occasionally your opinion will be challenged and facts, not more opinion, tend to make a stronger case.
Jay_Fixit Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Making things up is a generally horrible approach to persuasive argument development. If you cared to read, my first response on Wilson was that I wouldn't argue too much if someone wanted to put him in the elite tier, so while your "stomping" statement is cute and all, it's brutally misplaced and borders on absurd. What I said is that simply making a declaration with zero context whatsoever doesn't make for a compelling case, and frankly your posts since that original one have more or less gone south. Which is disappointing because I tried to engage with actual stats and context, but that went wayward as well. If you simply want to have your opinion accepted as fact without any real substantive discussion, then just say so and we don't need to get into the silliness you've spiraled into. Otherwise consider the idea that occasionally your opinion will be challenged and facts, not more opinion, tend to make a stronger case. I mean, I even provided some sample numbers (stats, if you will) from this last season (not opinion, but fact) to support my very correct stance. And that was just a small sample, as if I delved into more, this argument would be more one sided than it already is. And all it takes is a simple visit to football-reference.com or maybe a view of a Seahawk game or two to see how “elite” (which isn’t even quantifiable) Wilson is. Not to mention, you can see that a guy you’ve said is elite (Luck) isn’t even as good or has had the success Wilson has had. Maybe you’re not a Ciara fan? Or maybe you don’t like that Wilson posts videos with his shirt off in bed, but refusing to acknowledge that he’s in the same class as the elite QB’s in the NFL is absurd. But hey, it’s your opinion. Even if it’s wrong. Edited May 23, 2019 by Jay_Fixit
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Maybe you’re not a Ciara fan? Or maybe you don’t like that Wilson posts videos with his shirt off in bed, but refusing to acknowledge that he’s in the same class as the elite QB’s in the NFL is absurd. But hey, it’s your opinion. The above tells me that either (a) you haven't read a single word of what I typed, or (b) you're trolling me. Because option c would be that you are unable to read or think, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Your posts definitely don't read as though you're an idiot. Like I said: all you had to do was say that you aren't interested in engaging in a discussion where your opinion can be questioned, and you'd rather simply have it accepted as fact. That's a very clear signal for me not to engage; in the future let me know when you've taken a position that you consider to be infallible and refuse to support beyond "I am right" and I'll know to steer clear.
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 19 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: #26 for Murray?! I hope he comes over to your house and punches you in the kneecap! luckily, he has the vertical leap to reach it... 1
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