BillsFan4 Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 11 hours ago, K-9 said: Haha! He literally didn’t stop one shootout attempt that season. Not. One. 0 for 8 and a stellar .000 save percentage. Anyway screw that guy. The Sabres organization stood by him, paid for his treatment and rehab and then he has the nerve to do that hit job on the Buffalo fans in one of the NY papers last spring? Screw Lehner. I’m sorry he battled sobriety demons and I’m glad he seems to have that in control now, but HE ripped off the fans by choosing to play when he wasn’t clean, sober, and committed to being his best on a nightly basis. Sorry, but he doesn’ get to blame the fans for that. He can piss off. I feel pretty much the same. I applaud him for getting help with his mental illness+addiction and being so open about his recovery. But he was not part of the solution during his time here. If anything, he was part of the problem. He was playing while heavily drinking, and was reportedly quite a handful to deal with at times. I feel like he didn’t start taking his NHL career seriously until he left Buffalo. So why he seems to hold such a grudge against the Sabres, I have no idea. He’s taken quite a few shots at buffalo since he left. I mean, he’s kind of right about some of the stuff he said. But I just don’t get why he seems to have so much hate for the team that gave up prime assets to give him his first ever shot at a starting role in the NHL (after he forced his way out of Ottawa). A role he never took seriously until he left. I fully understand that it often takes people time to come to terms with addiction/mental illness and get the help they need. So I don’t hold a grudge against Lehner. I just don’t get the hate he has for buffalo is all. As far as his save % here, yeah it was good. But IMO the Sabres artificially inflated goalies sv%’s because they allowed such a high volume of shots (bylsma’s system was all about letting the other team take as many low danger shots as they wanted). Look at some of the other goalies that had great sv% numbers during that time. About 1/2 aren’t even in the NHL anymore. And as you said, he was the worst goalie in shootouts and on breakaways I have ever seen. Remember, he refused to even practice the shootout here. Housley (iirc) tried to get him to and he refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: And as you said, he was the worst goalie in shootouts and on breakaways I have ever seen. Remember, he refused to even practice the shootout here. Housley (iirc) tried to get him to and he refused. If Housley couldn't get the lumbering goalie to practice on his weaknesses that is an indictment of the coach. If the player refuses to participate in a drill that addresses weakness in his game then that is in your face insubordination. Not only does the coach lose credibility with the player but the flagrant disrespect flows down to the rest of the team. The coach has the authority to direct his players. If you are not winning with your players then what do you have to lose by moving out the recalcitrant player/s. Lehner's internal struggles were known within the organization. I'm sure they didn't know what the exact cause of his aberrant behavior was but there was enough of an issue to recognize that something was very wrong. The staff shouldn't have put up with his conduct and attitude because it was detrimental to the team. They should have forced him seek help and use his roster spot for someone else. Losing is bad enough. Losing control of the operation is worse. The former GM who dealt for Lehner made a stupendously stupid deal. It made absolutely no sense. It demonstrates how bad decisions have lingering consequences and make the road to success a much longer distance to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: If Housley couldn't get the lumbering goalie to practice on his weaknesses that is an indictment of the coach. If the player refuses to participate in a drill that addresses weakness in his game then that is in your face insubordination. Not only does the coach lose credibility with the player but the flagrant disrespect flows down to the rest of the team. The coach has the authority to direct his players. If you are not winning with your players then what do you have to lose by moving out the recalcitrant player/s. Lehner's internal struggles were known within the organization. I'm sure they didn't know what the exact cause of his aberrant behavior was but there was enough of an issue to recognize that something was very wrong. The staff shouldn't have put up with his conduct and attitude because it was detrimental to the team. They should have forced him seek help and use his roster spot for someone else. Losing is bad enough. Losing control of the operation is worse. The former GM who dealt for Lehner made a stupendously stupid deal. It made absolutely no sense. It demonstrates how bad decisions have lingering consequences and make the road to success a much longer distance to travel. Good points. Once again illustrating just how out of his depth Housley was as a head coach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 13 hours ago, JohnC said: I looked up Alex Nylander's stats with Chicago. In 12 games he has 2 goals and 5 assists with a plus 2. He is averaging 12:47 minutes a game. Those are respectable numbers. However, Beane's deal of Jokiharju for Nylander is very much in our favor. The Blackhawk fans have every right to be upset with that deal. Beane must be a really busy man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 39 minutes ago, JohnC said: If Housley couldn't get the lumbering goalie to practice on his weaknesses that is an indictment of the coach. If the player refuses to participate in a drill that addresses weakness in his game then that is in your face insubordination. Not only does the coach lose credibility with the player but the flagrant disrespect flows down to the rest of the team. The coach has the authority to direct his players. If you are not winning with your players then what do you have to lose by moving out the recalcitrant player/s. Lehner's internal struggles were known within the organization. I'm sure they didn't know what the exact cause of his aberrant behavior was but there was enough of an issue to recognize that something was very wrong. The staff shouldn't have put up with his conduct and attitude because it was detrimental to the team. They should have forced him seek help and use his roster spot for someone else. Losing is bad enough. Losing control of the operation is worse. The former GM who dealt for Lehner made a stupendously stupid deal. It made absolutely no sense. It demonstrates how bad decisions have lingering consequences and make the road to success a much longer distance to travel. That is who I blame the most for the whole Lehner situation. Tim Murray scouted+drafted Lehner and spent years in Ottawa with hi. He was the GM of their AHL team the whole time Lehner player there. He knew Lehner better than just about anyone (or at least he should have). How did he not not have any idea of Lehner’s problems? Robin even said that this had been going on since his Ottawa days. Murray not only trades for him, but he gives up a 1st round pick in the deepest draft in over a decade to do it. He was the only GM willing to give up a 1st for Lehner, and he had the most inside knowledge on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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JohnC Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: That is who I blame the most for the whole Lehner situation. Tim Murray scouted+drafted Lehner and spent years in Ottawa with hi. He was the GM of their AHL team the whole time Lehner player there. He knew Lehner better than just about anyone (or at least he should have). How did he not not have any idea of Lehner’s problems? Robin even said that this had been going on since his Ottawa days. Murray not only trades for him, but he gives up a 1st round pick in the deepest draft in over a decade to do it. He was the only GM willing to give up a 1st for Lehner, and he had the most inside knowledge on him. The first round pick that Murray used for Lehner (a goalie that Ottawa probably wasn't going to keep) could have been used for a forward who would now be ready to play on the first or more likely second line. Compare that to the current GM signing Hutton and giving up nothing for him? Hutton is not only as good, if not better, but also one of the leaders on this team. The previous staffs have made so many crippling mistakes that it is both laughable and sad. GMs make a lot of decisions in which not all of them work out. That's inherent in making decisions in any profession. However, there is a big difference between making a calculated decisions that don't work out and making outrageously stupid decisions that never had any chance of working out. The primary reason that Murray blundered on his goalie acquisition in Lehner is that he overvalued the attribute of size for the position. That was why he was so fixated on him. He got tunnel vision in his scouting for the position and it resulted in that decision exploding on him. While Murray was intoxicated with his self-destructive bluster and short term perspective Botterill was more analytical with a longer term perspective. Or another way of saying this is being dumb is not better than being smart! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Why does everyone always forget the MVP of that trade? David Legwand was so good, he scored from his own bench. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: This is absolutely no surprise to me whatsoever. The worst destination in the league was always Winnipeg, back before they lost their team. Now it's back again so perhaps it is still thought of #1 No Trade Zone. Calgary/Edmonton come to mind, Buffalo, a few others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 Not gonna lie, I smiled when Lehner just got lit up by Evander Kane on a short handed breakaway. I see Lehner’s been practicing... lol. Also, speaking of Kane -> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 17 hours ago, JohnC said: The first round pick that Murray used for Lehner (a goalie that Ottawa probably wasn't going to keep) could have been used for a forward who would now be ready to play on the first or more likely second line. Compare that to the current GM signing Hutton and giving up nothing for him? Hutton is not only as good, if not better, but also one of the leaders on this team. The previous staffs have made so many crippling mistakes that it is both laughable and sad. GMs make a lot of decisions in which not all of them work out. That's inherent in making decisions in any profession. However, there is a big difference between making a calculated decisions that don't work out and making outrageously stupid decisions that never had any chance of working out. The primary reason that Murray blundered on his goalie acquisition in Lehner is that he overvalued the attribute of size for the position. That was why he was so fixated on him. He got tunnel vision in his scouting for the position and it resulted in that decision exploding on him. While Murray was intoxicated with his self-destructive bluster and short term perspective Botterill was more analytical with a longer term perspective. Or another way of saying this is being dumb is not better than being smart! This GM has done some positive things but signing Hutton was not some epiphany. He was one of just a few free agent options and he is basically average although when he is on he really helps the team. Replacing Lehner was going to look good even if he signed Louie Anderson to play goalie. The frustrating part about Botts is his willingness to golf his days away while waiting 1000 years for success. It won't work. Eichel will be turning 52 in year one of Botts "get the 8 seed plan". Player development has to be called into question at this point. Nylander, utterly worthless for years in the Sabres system, is a viable NHL player 10 minutes after moving to Chicago and we have a 19 year old phenom that is.......regressing? Not a good look. The coach has been a positive for sure so good on Botts for hiring him but he can't keep giving him chicken **** and ask for chicken salad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 8 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Not gonna lie, I smiled when Lehner just got lit up by Evander Kane on a short handed breakaway. I see Lehner’s been practicing... lol. Also, speaking of Kane -> Wow. What player is doing this in the middle of a playoff series? Red flags galore. He needs to call GA and get his priorities straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 On 11/4/2019 at 9:04 PM, GG said: I’m fairly certain Sabres defense was also at fault on all his shootout efforts. Seriously. He looked like a trout flapping on a dock half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Wow. What player is doing this in the middle of a playoff series? Red flags galore. He needs to call GA and get his priorities straight. Could explain why he was late coming in from Toronto that one time. Probably made a pit stop in Niagara Falls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 The attached link is a column by Travis Yost from the Buffalo News. It focuses on the good play of the third pairing of Jokiharju and Scandella with the main focus on Jokiharju. He uses analytics to support his case of how well Joki is playing and how the younger player is elevating the play of the older Scandella. The bottom line is this trade of Nylander for Jokiharju has worked out really well for us. He is still a very young player with a lot of upside. Kudos to our GM. https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/06/buffalo-sabres-henri-jokiharju-marco-scandella-analytics-travis-yost/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 Finally some Sabres hockey today! Hopefully they can get back in the win column. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: Finally some Sabres hockey today! Hopefully they can get back in the win column. Without question, Tampa is not only the more talented team but they are underachieving this season. It was mentioned by one of the Buffalo commentators (forgot which one) that some of the players were starting to snipe at one another on the bench during the games. I'm hoping that this cross continent game doesn't result in them bonding as a team and playing better as a unit. The Sabres have a number of Swedes on the roster who will be playing in front of family and friends. Just maybe that back home atmosphere might be a factor in this game. If the Sabres win one game out of two I will be more than satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) The hockey Gods demand retribution for the cheap shot Kucherov just gave Sobotka. Blatant interference well after Sobotka shot the puck and the ref was too much of a p***sy to blow the whistle. I hope Risto makes Kucherov swallow his own stick. Screw this ref. Calls interference on Dahlin after totally missing the more blatant penalty on Kucherov. Ref has money on TAMPA. That’s the only explanation. Edited November 8, 2019 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Is tomorrow's game also being televised on NBC sports network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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