Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[shrader]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I don’t have an issue with the pick as much as I do with his policy of not even considering a defenseman with that pick because it was “too high” and you only draft forwards that high (something Murray talked about more than once). 

Nylander wasn’t a reach. He was ranked in the top 10 of the draft. 

 

But Sergachev should have been at least in consideration for that pick. Same with Chychrun and McAvoy. They shouldn’t have been disqualified from consideration because they played defense and Murray thought #7 was too high to take a defenseman. 

 

 

I'd love to see thoughts like this truly put to the test.  But unfortunately (actually, fortunately), GMs are typically fired before that can ever happen.  If 8 is too high to take a defenseman, what does Murray do if he's presented with the first overall pick with Dahlin on the board?  There's clearly some line where a stupid rule like that gets thrown out the window.

 

It's the same thought I had immediately last year when I heard the Tom Dundon quote that the Hurricanes will never draft a defenseman in the first round as long as he owns the team.  That comment conveniently came out right after they had finished second in the draft lottery.  With him though, I genuinely think he just might be so stupid as to force the GM to take Svechnikov over Dahlin.

[Buffalophil1948]

Hate to say it but I think Nylander is going to be stuck at the bottom of the log jam Chicago has for forwards.  He will get stuck in the AHL in Rockford.  That will help his attitude and work ethic.

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, shrader said:

I do think that it was mostly a case of Murray not placing anywhere near as much value on the defense position.  It goes beyond the drafts.  Look at all of his moves while he was here.  He focused very heavily on adding scoring.  He never traded for defense.  Any d-man he did acquire, it involved a defenseman going back the other way (Myers -> Bogosian, Pysyk -> Kulikov).  Other deals actually depleted our D numbers (McNabb -> Fasching/Desluariers, Zadorov in the O'Reilly deal).  Only one trade lead to a net gain in D (Gorges for pick).

 

He also didn't pay any serious attention to the position in free agency.  Take a look at this list, he never looked beyond the bargain bin:
Meszaros

Strachan

Benoit

Donovan

Sanguinetti

Colaiacovo

Franson

Fedun

Falk

 

 

It's a very short time frame, so it's definitely possible that he would have turned his focus to the D once the offense was fully established, but completely neglecting it for those three years is a big part of why he's gone.

What your post indicates is that Murray was simply not a good GM. There was little strategy and thought in constructing a roster. He tried to short circuit the rebuild process with expedient decisions that instead of advancing the rebuild set it back. He not only didn't advance the construction of a competitive team but set it back. Most of us disagree with how the current GM handled the ROR trade. (I'm sure there is more to that back story that we are aware of that includes input from the owners.) But putting aside that issue most of his moves have an understandable rationale and thoughtfulness behind them. 

 

You and Bills4 point out that Murray didn't value the defense compared to the rest of the roster. But what is also evident is that he still wasn't very successful in constructing the forward lines. With Murray style trumped substance. His bluster and tough talk didn't compensate for his inability to handle the many responsibilities associated with his GM job. When all is said and done the bland and boring Botts outshined the more colorful, loud and pugnacious personality of Murray. Or another way of saying it is : Substance over style. 

 

 

[plenzmd1]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What your post indicates is that Murray was simply not a good GM. There was little strategy and thought in constructing a roster. He tried to short circuit the rebuild process with expedient decisions that instead of advancing the rebuild set it back. He not only didn't advance the construction of a competitive team but set it back. Most of us disagree with how the current GM handled the ROR trade. (I'm sure there is more to that back story that we are aware of that includes input from the owners.) But putting aside that issue most of his moves have an understandable rationale and thoughtfulness behind them. 

 

You and Bills4 point out that Murray didn't value the defense compared to the rest of the roster. But what is also evident is that he still wasn't very successful in constructing the forward lines. With Murray style trumped substance. His bluster and tough talk didn't compensate for his inability to handle the many responsibilities associated with his GM job. When all is said and done the bland and boring Botts outshined the more colorful, loud and pugnacious personality of Murray. Or another way of saying it is : Substance over style. 

 

 

 

 

'Wonder who said this on July 2nd of last year?????

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

i'm happy with the deal. The Blues got the best player while in my mind the key for Buffalo is getting the picks and Tage Thompson, a young player with upside. Botterill was determined to shake up the room and get a better mix. And without question he is accomplishing that. 

 

Make no mistake our GM is building for the future. He is trying to piece together some good young players who will grow together. He is a strategic thinker compared to the more tactical former GM. Overall, I like what he has done

 

 

 

 

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

 

'Wonder who said this on July 2nd of last year?????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Botts got the best deal he could because he was determined to quickly move him, probably because of the impending bonus. I have never criticized him for trading the gap toothed player because it was apparent that something was going on there. The criticism I have is just because he got what he could get at the time doesn't mean that he couldn't have gotten much more by waiting for a better deal. As it turned out that imbalanced deal hurt the team. What's obvious is obvious. 

 

Compare how Botts handled the ROR case with the possible Risto or McCabe trade case? Very often patience brings you a better return than impatience. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by JohnC
grammar

[Alaska Darin]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:28 PM, GG said:

 

Wouldn't that list include Nylander?

Of course...

[plenzmd1]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Botts got the best deal he could because he was determined to quickly move him, probably because of the impending bonus. I have never criticized him for trading the gap toothed player because it was apparent that something was going on there. The criticism I have is just because he got what he could get at the time doesn't mean that he couldn't have gotten much more by waiting for a better deal. As it turned out that imbalanced deal hurt the team. What's obvious is obvious. 

 

Compare how Botts handled the ROR case with the possible Risto or McCabe trade case? Very often patience brings you a better return than impatience. 

[BillsFan4]

 

https://www.tsn.ca/video/granato-there-s-no-limit-to-eichel-s-potential~1727585

 

“Sabres assistant coach Don Granato joins OverDrive to chat about Buffalo’s outlook for next season, and what it was like to coach Auston Matthews in the US developmental program.”

 

heres the whole interview -

 

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/don-granato-on-the-teamsnap-coaches-conference-auston-matthews-his-hopes-for-the-sabres-this-season-1.1336177

Edited July 11, 2019 by BillsFan4

[Cripple Creek]

On 7/9/2019 at 10:44 PM, JohnC said:

I don't watch many Amerk games but I do watch the highlights from their games from their web site. I have also heard many interviews of Chris Taylor, the HC, discussing Nylander. The description of his play rarely changes. Nylander is described as a skilled and finesse player. Taylor has often said that he and his staff assiduously work to get him to play a more two way game and a harder physical game on the boards and in his zone. When the description of his style of play hasn't changed much over the past couple of years then it becomes obvious (at least to me) that he is either incapable of rounding out his game or he doesn't have the desire to. 

 

I have seen him in a few Sabre games. For the most part he is an invisible and no impact player with some interludes of skill. But what is evident to the observer is that his game lacks consistent energy. I have a standard way of evaluating players: Trust your eyes and not your hope.   

Did they really use the word assiduously when they described their coaching style?

[JohnC]

The below link is a column by Matt Larkin of The Hockey News. He was giving his opinion on the trade possibilities for Risto. I'm open on the issue but starting to lean toward keeping him unless the return is an offer that can't be refused. 

 

http://thehockeynews.com/news/article/its-time-for-buffalo-to-trade-rasmus-ristolainen-where?view=getnewpost

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/video/granato-there-s-no-limit-to-eichel-s-potential~1727585

 

“Sabres assistant coach Don Granato joins OverDrive to chat about Buffalo’s outlook for next season, and what it was like to coach Auston Matthews in the US developmental program.”

 

heres the whole interview -

 

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/don-granato-on-the-teamsnap-coaches-conference-auston-matthews-his-hopes-for-the-sabres-this-season-1.1336177

Both of these links showed how thoughtful Granato is as a coach and his approach to the game as an instructor. For Krueger as exemplified by this coaching hire the approach is not just about individual talent development as it is about team building. There is a depth and interconnectedness about how this staff wants to put together a team. 

 

When Granato was talking about how special Mathews and Eichel are as players I thought of Nylander. Nylander may not be as explosive as these players but his skill set is elite. He will never attain a level of success as a player to match his hockey talent because he simply doesn't have the burning desire and commitment to the game that Matthews and Eichel have. I would love to be wrong but what you see when watching him is evident. 

[GG]

Larsson signs $1.55 million one-year extension - 4th line is solidified.   This makes it nearly certain that one or two RHD will be moved soon.

[plenzmd1]

14 minutes ago, GG said:

Larsson signs $1.55 million one-year extension - 4th line is solidified.   This makes it nearly certain that one or two RHD will be moved soon.

so i have no clue sometimes on how hockey works..

 

but my understanding is he can still be waived, and if claimed new team eats the cap 

if unclaimed, send him to Rochester , Sabres still eat the cap

Hopefully, this is the plan with Sobotka..instead of buying him out eat the cap hit while you have the space..but his ass better be playing either in Rochester or on loan to some ECL team..anywhere but taking meaning shifts in Buffalo

 

this cant work if player a a NM clause, but it is what we did with Matty Mo no?

 

Cap space not a huge issue i am guessing even in a trade scenario..cause most likely any trade involves Risto and his cap number being shipped out. So why not keep guys like this and have the flexibility and possible trade fodder like Sobotka was last year.

 

 

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

so i have no clue sometimes on how hockey works..

 

but my understanding is he can still be waived, and if claimed new team eats the cap 

if unclaimed, send him to Rochester , Sabres still eat the cap

Hopefully, this is the plan with Sobotka..instead of buying him out eat the cap hit while you have the space..but his ass better be playing either in Rochester or on loan to some ECL team..anywhere but taking meaning shifts in Buffalo

 

this cant work if player a a NM clause, but it is what we did with Matty Mo no?

 

Cap space not a huge issue i am guessing even in a trade scenario..cause most likely any trade involves Risto and his cap number being shipped out. So why not keep guys like this and have the flexibility and possible trade fodder like Sobotka was last year.

 

 

But, but, but who else is gonna take key defensive faceoffs from the left dot?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GG said:

Larsson signs $1.55 million one-year extension - 4th line is solidified.   This makes it nearly certain that one or two RHD will be moved soon.

What does solidifying our fourth line have to doe with trading any of our d-men? I do agree with you that either Risto or McCabe or maybe even both are likely to be traded. But if the organization decides to stay pat with the bulging unit because the team will have both Pilut and Bogo on the shelf when the season starts then that isn't a bad situation to be in. As it stands our blue line unit as it is currently constituted is very good with Dahlin/Montour on the first pairing, Risto/McCabe on the second pairing and then Miller/Scandella/Bogo/Pilut making up the third and fourth pairing with some shuffling. That's not a bad unit. 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What does solidifying our fourth line have to doe with trading any of our d-men? I do agree with you that either Risto or McCabe or maybe even both are likely to be traded. But if the organization decides to stay pat with the bulging unit because the team will have both Pilut and Bogo on the shelf when the season starts then that isn't a bad situation to be in. As it stands our blue line unit as it is currently constituted is very good with Dahlin/Montour on the first pairing, Risto/McCabe on the second pairing and then Miller/Scandella/Bogo/Pilut making up the third and fourth pairing with some shuffling. That's not a bad unit. 

 

The capologists are saying that.  There’s no room to fit all the RFAs who filed arbitration - Linus, ERod, and McCabe.  Someone has to go now.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The capologists are saying that.  There’s no room to fit all the RFAs who filed arbitration - Linus, ERod, and McCabe.  Someone has to go now.

From a cap standpoint I understand your point. But if you look at all our RFAs none of them are considered costly especially considering the playing time they accrue. Other than maybe McCabe who is going to put stress on our cap? It seems to me that if a d-man is dealt it will be more due to having an excess in one area and having a need in another. 

[GG]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

From a cap standpoint I understand your point. But if you look at all our RFAs none of them are considered costly especially considering the playing time they accrue. Other than maybe McCabe who is going to put stress on our cap? It seems to me that if a d-man is dealt it will be more due to having an excess in one area and having a need in another. 

 

Nothing but pure math at this point.  The nuts at Sabrespace laid it out.  Sabres have $3.1 million in cap space, which isn’t enough to keep all 3 RFAs in arbitration.  

 

It’s even more clear now that the D surplus is temporary.

Edited July 12, 2019 by GG

[snafu]

3 hours ago, GG said:

 

Nothing but pure math at this point.  The nuts at Sabrespace laid it out.  Sabres have $3.1 million in cap space, which isn’t enough to keep all 3 RFAs in arbitration.  

 

It’s even more clear now that the D surplus is temporary.

 

Could trade Girgensons. He’s making about the same as Larsson at this point and they probably don’t need both of them to C the 4th line. 

And he’s fairly useful as trade bait.

[BillsFan4]

Pretty good read -

 

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Growing-trend-in-how-Pittsburgh-and-Buffalo-are-building-their-defense/177/100456

Growing trend in how Pittsburgh and Buffalo are building their defense

 

Quote

Yesterday the Buffalo Sabres made another move to try and improve their blue line. They acquired 20 year old Henri Jokiharju in exchange for Alex Nylander. It is the latest in a string of moves to try and revamp a group that struggled to move the puck and create offense. Jokiharju joins Colin Miller and Brandon Montour as recent additions to the right side of Buffalo's back end. These moves open the door for a Rasmus Ristolainen trade which has great potential for Buffalo. There are many teams who will perceive Ristolainen’s value to be higher than it is.  

When Jason Botterill was hired by the Sabres they had one of the worst blue lines in the entire league. The group included Rasmus Ristolainen, Zach Bogosian, Josh Gorges, Justin Falk (no not that one), Taylor Fedun, Dmitry Kulikov, Cody Franson, and Jake McCabe.  

The recent moves by the Sabres got me thinking about the shift in the kinds of defenseman the Penguins used to target versus the kind that they currently target. Buffalo seems to be focusing on puck movers and offense while the Penguins have shifted towards a push back mentality in recent years. Right now the Penguins defense is their greatest weakness.

There are three different time periods I decided to look at with the Penguins and the kinds of additions they made on defense via signings and trade. The first time period was June 6, 2014 to May 10, 2017. This was the time both Jim Rutherford and Jason Botterill worked together......