njbuff Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 41 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: He is easily a 2nd pair defenseman IMO. Here’s at an NHL analyst recently said about Risto’s situation - https://theathletic.com/1019893/2019/06/11/examining-15-potential-trade-targets-for-the-lightning-to-bolster-blueline/ Hes been put in a no-win situation his entire Buffalo career. He’s had crap for partners (Scandella and Pilut have been his 2 best defensive partners in his 6 year Sabre career (and he only p,Ayer with each for a short time). He’s consistently in the top 5-10:for minutes played in the entire NHL. He almost always faces the toughest competition - his QoC (quality of competition) stats are near the top of the NHL too. He is being used as a league wide top 5 d man instead of as a #2 or #3, which is what he is. If a team acquires him and then uses him properly, he’s going to make buffalo look foolish for ever trading him. Then why the heck is Buffalo dangling him around the NHL? What are they planning to receive in return?
BillsFan4 Posted June 24, 2019 Author Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, njbuff said: Then why the heck is Buffalo dangling him around the NHL? What are they planning to receive in return? Good question(s). Darren Dreger and most of the legit insiders have all said that Buffalo would only trade Risto if it was a great return. So I’m hoping that’s true. But id be lying if I said I had complete faith that Buffalo won’t trade him for a questionable return. I’m still a bit worried Risto is this year’s scape goat. From what I’ve gathered from all the reports this offseason, it sounds like Risto was likely to be moved and then talks slowed down once they hired Krueger, with the thinking that he could fix Risto. So I guess we will see what happens.
EmotionallyUnstable Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 @JohnC We are two totally different types of hockey fans. You seem extremely knowledgable and I am admittedly new to the sport. That being said, why is it so wrong to want to be good now? I watch hockey purely for enjoyment. I want to see scoring, wins and a playoff run. I’d rather have one in the hand then two in the bush so putting off potential successes to snub a shot at a good season now is crazy to me. Go get the guys to be good now! Idk how to do it, who to move, or who to acquire, but that’s not my job. As others have said, other teams have done it. If I watch another wasted season playing mediocre to subpar hockey (see January/February), it will be clear that they are still a mess regardless of what you perceive to be a good administration.
JohnC Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: @JohnC We are two totally different types of hockey fans. You seem extremely knowledgable and I am admittedly new to the sport. That being said, why is it so wrong to want to be good now? I watch hockey purely for enjoyment. I want to see scoring, wins and a playoff run. I’d rather have one in the hand then two in the bush so putting off potential successes to snub a shot at a good season now is crazy to me. Go get the guys to be good now! Idk how to do it, who to move, or who to acquire, but that’s not my job. As others have said, other teams have done it. If I watch another wasted season playing mediocre to subpar hockey (see January/February), it will be clear that they are still a mess regardless of what you perceive to be a good administration. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be good now. Who wouldn't want to root for a good and relevant team? The obvious question is how do you get there? To state the obvious you get there by having enough talent and then having them play together as a team. Having enough talent is obviously important and having the right mix is also important. We don't have that right now. That's the challenge. Since Pegula bought the franchise this organization and staff has repeatedly been reshuffled. That is not a recipe for success in any endeavor. I believe that the owner has settled on a good GM who knows how to assemble a good organizational staff and steadily add to the roster. There is nothing unique about what we are doing that other rebuilding teams have gone through. The foundation is about getting talent in your system and developing that talent. That is not an easy or quick process. That's a reality that a number of people don't want to face. The process is taking longer than it should because the prior regimes made some stupendous mistakes that not only didn't advance the team but set it back. As I have said, and others have said, trying to take expedient, short term actions, for the quick fix not only doesn't get you anywhere meaningful but it sets you back. Edited June 24, 2019 by JohnC grammar correction 1
bbb Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/22/2019 at 3:22 PM, BillsFan4 said: Sabres trade up and pick Aaron Huglen. He scored a crazy goal in the Hlinka - The thing I like least about hockey is not really seeing a lot of goals or crazy saves in real time. I did not catch what he did at regular speed.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 10 hours ago, JohnC said: There is nothing wrong with wanting to be good now. Who wouldn't want to root for a good and relevant team? The obvious question is how do you get there? To state the obvious you get there by having enough talent and then having them play together as a team. Having enough talent is obviously important and having the right mix is also important. We don't have that right now. That's the challenge. Since Pegula bought the franchise this organization and staff has repeatedly been reshuffled. That is not a recipe for success in any endeavor. I believe that the owner has settled on a good GM who knows how to assemble a good organizational staff and steadily add to the roster. There is nothing unique about what we are doing that other rebuilding teams have gone through. The foundation is about getting talent in your system and developing that talent. That is not an easy or quick process. That's a reality that a number of people don't want to face. The process is taking longer than it should because the prior regimes made some stupendous mistakes that not only didn't advance the team but set it back. As I have said, and others have said, trying to take expedient, short term actions, for the quick fix not only doesn't get you anywhere meaningful but it sets you back. Let's hope Kreuger is a big part of a step forward. I never thought the Sabres lacked for talent they so much as lacked coaching. (They weren't deep but also weren't last-place bad either.) Housley was such a huge disappointment, being married to whatever his system was rather than coaching around the players he actually had. 1
JohnC Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Let's hope Kreuger is a big part of a step forward. I never thought the Sabres lacked for talent they so much as lacked coaching. (They weren't deep but also weren't last-place bad either.) Housley was such a huge disappointment, being married to whatever his system was rather than coaching around the players he actually had. I have high hopes for Kreuger. He knows how to teach and organize a unit. He's a bright man with an intuitive feel for handling people. Just because he is exceptional smart and well-rounded doesn't mean that he isn't tough and hold his players accountable. The biggest failing for Housley is that he didn't adjust when things weren't working out. I don't see Kreuger being so rigid in enforcing his system and tolerating repeated mistakes by the same players.
plenzmd1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: I have high hopes for Kreuger. He knows how to teach and organize a unit. He's a bright man with an intuitive feel for handling people. Just because he is exceptional smart and well-rounded doesn't mean that he isn't tough and hold his players accountable. The biggest failing for Housley is that he didn't adjust when things weren't working out. I don't see Kreuger being so rigid in enforcing his system and tolerating repeated mistakes by the same players. Man John, you are going to have to tell me how you know these things about Kreuger. And i thought Housley was a good coach who just did not have players..And Botteril was a very intelligent guy with a "plan"...but watched a first place team slide/free fall to bottom, and the folks like me who said this guy is awful fire him and you labeled as impatient and impulsive....but said coach now fired and new guy should improve the team greatly ?????..I just get lost in the logic....and I am somehow supposed to have faith in the GM why????? This organization is still a mess, have a bad bad feeling JBOTS is now gunna be gun shy on any trade, and I know..be patient and you just wait till all the kids develop in 4 years the Sabres make their playoff run... This guy is on his 3rd offseason..and he has 2 last place finishes to his name in my mind ..and mind you with inherited talent that was in a playoff race in February the year he arrived..The team has regressed tremendously since he arrived, there just cannot be any question about that. And he best not be preaching patience..and he better hope and pray this new dude can coach up "his" players... and oh, BTW, i would love to be your portfolio manager 1
Boca BIlls Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) Botterill is farting in the bathtub laughing his ass of all while the team suffers. Edited June 24, 2019 by Boca BIlls
JohnC Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: Man John, you are going to have to tell me how you know these things about Kreuger. And i thought Housley was a good coach who just did not have players..And Botteril was a very intelligent guy with a "plan"...but watched a first place team slide/free fall to bottom, and the folks like me who said this guy is awful fire him and you labeled as impatient and impulsive....but said coach now fired and new guy should improve the team greatly ?????..I just get lost in the logic....and I am somehow supposed to have faith in the GM why????? This organization is still a mess, have a bad bad feeling JBOTS is now gunna be gun shy on any trade, and I know..be patient and you just wait till all the kids develop in 4 years the Sabres make their playoff run... This guy is on his 3rd offseason..and he has 2 last place finishes to his name in my mind ..and mind you with inherited talent that was in a playoff race in February the year he arrived..The team has regressed tremendously since he arrived, there just cannot be any question about that. And he best not be preaching patience..and he better hope and pray this new dude can coach up "his" players... and oh, BTW, i would love to be your portfolio manager I don't need you or anyone else to be my portfolio manager. I'm doing exceptionally well making decisions for my own well-being. Simple advice: Don't seek out the glitz and invest for the long-term. Substance over style always prevails. Would you please stop with the foolish notion that the Sabres were a first place team that spiraled out of control. They were not as good as that tantalizing winning stint led some of the want to be believers thought it was. What that enjoyable stint demonstrated is that if you play tight and smart hockey a lesser team can compete with the better teams. The problem is that in the end talent prevails. That's what happened last year. I constantly remind you that the issue overriding this lagging franchise is about the level of talent. You need to accept that reality or you are going to damage your hard head banging it against the wall. I'm too irascible and independent to be a cult follower. Krueger is not a magic man. However, I believe that he has more depth than Housley to understand that when something is not working the coach has to make the necessary adjustments to accommodate the weaknesses of his roster. If your players are incapable of changing to you then you have to adjust to them. Housley was a rookie coach who went through the learning curve as do players. I strenuously disagree with you that under Botterill this organization is a mess. He inherited a mess and is working through it. As I have said for a long time it is going to take time to rebuild the roster. That's what is being done. It's certainly not at the rate you desire but my response to your impatience is that is your problem. Making short-term expedient decisions is not a solution so much as it is a plague that has kept this organization handcuffed by its own foolishness. There is still plenty of time to make deals this offseason. I don't foresee any blockbuster deals (unless there is a Risto deal) but rather I see a few good pickups that will improve the roster. In my opinion internal improvement by our young guys is the key to our team getting better. You may be into glitz but I am not.
K-9 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: Man John, you are going to have to tell me how you know these things about Kreuger. And i thought Housley was a good coach who just did not have players..And Botteril was a very intelligent guy with a "plan"...but watched a first place team slide/free fall to bottom, and the folks like me who said this guy is awful fire him and you labeled as impatient and impulsive....but said coach now fired and new guy should improve the team greatly ?????..I just get lost in the logic....and I am somehow supposed to have faith in the GM why????? This organization is still a mess, have a bad bad feeling JBOTS is now gunna be gun shy on any trade, and I know..be patient and you just wait till all the kids develop in 4 years the Sabres make their playoff run... This guy is on his 3rd offseason..and he has 2 last place finishes to his name in my mind ..and mind you with inherited talent that was in a playoff race in February the year he arrived..The team has regressed tremendously since he arrived, there just cannot be any question about that. And he best not be preaching patience..and he better hope and pray this new dude can coach up "his" players... and oh, BTW, i would love to be your portfolio manager This is all fair. I gave Housley every benefit of the doubt until he started to display poor coaching ability routinely and across several aspects. Krueger will get the same benefit of the doubt as well. 51 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Botterill is farting in the bathtub laughing his ass of all while the team suffers. 1 2
plenzmd1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: I don't need you or anyone else to be my portfolio manager. I'm doing exceptionally well making decisions for my own well-being. Simple advice: Don't seek out the glitz and invest for the long-term. Substance over style always prevails. Would you please stop with the foolish notion that the Sabres were a first place team that spiraled out of control. They were not as good as that tantalizing winning stint led some of the want to be believers thought it was. What that enjoyable stint demonstrated is that if you play tight and smart hockey a lesser team can compete with the better teams. The problem is that in the end talent prevails. That's what happened last year. I constantly remind you that the issue overriding this lagging franchise is about the level of talent. You need to accept that reality or you are going to damage your hard head banging it against the wall. I'm too irascible and independent to be a cult follower. Krueger is not a magic man. However, I believe that he has more depth than Housley to understand that when something is not working the coach has to make the necessary adjustments to accommodate the weaknesses of his roster. If your players are incapable of changing to you then you have to adjust to them. Housley was a rookie coach who went through the learning curve as do players. I strenuously disagree with you that under Botterill this organization is a mess. He inherited a mess and is working through it. As I have said for a long time it is going to take time to rebuild the roster. That's what is being done. It's certainly not at the rate you desire but my response to your impatience is that is your problem. Making short-term expedient decisions is not a solution so much as it is a plague that has kept this organization handcuffed by its own foolishness. There is still plenty of time to make deals this offseason. I don't foresee any blockbuster deals (unless there is a Risto deal) but rather I see a few good pickups that will improve the roster. In my opinion internal improvement by our young guys is the key to our team getting better. You may be into glitz but I am not. 1) I want to be your portfolio manager cause plan seems more important than results too you? 2) Some of us knew the winning streak was a fluke early..and kept saying this coach is a joke who consistently uses his personnel wrong..but we heard from this GM how important it would be to be playing meaningful games in March...yep we saw how that worked out. Having said that, the Sabres started a mile race at the half mile mark and all they had to do was finish .500 to make the playoffs...and yet this supposed brainy GM did not do anything..and i mean anything, to take advantage of the lead he was given in the race. But he waits to the end of the year to say this coach just cant get it done, when every metric told you that even to us idiots. Dude was playing 17 3rd most forward minutes, staring him in OT..and then people are upset 17 did not get a buyout???? I mean cmon, it was obvious...I need a guy who is proactive..not reactive as he seems to be. 3) You say the organization was a mess when JBOTTs got here..and yet he has done nothing but make it worse through 2 seasons..going on a 3rd offseason. I mean letting Mitts burn a year of the ELC is prolly a firable offense on its own, So lets do this..you tell what your definition is for success next year...I can tell you mine. Its freaking playoffs or this guy prolly needs to be gone. Getting back to where they were when he got after 3 years is not successful in my mind..
snafu Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said: Botterill is farting in the bathtub laughing his ass of all while the team suffers. Is there water in the tub? 1 hour ago, K-9 said: This is all fair. I gave Housley every benefit of the doubt until he started to display poor coaching ability routinely and across several aspects. Krueger will get the same benefit of the doubt as well. I think it is more than coaching. This team needs a culture shock. Maybe that means shipping out underperforming vets who are collecting paychecks because that's the perception of this team. Maybe means shipping out kids who grew up in an organization that made it clear that losing was an option (to get top draft picks). I am speculating wildly, but I suspect that coaching is/was part of the problem and not the whole problem. 1 1
plenzmd1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, eball said: So did we have a good draft or not? Who the hell knows. Whole bunch of guys no one outside of scouts have ever seen play , but some folks will tell you what mistakes were made and where based on some analysts take on what another analyst gleaned from Central scouting report. I do know that as of right now, 99% chance the team still sucks?!!!( actually i am encouraged the new coach can get that same group competitive as long as Sobotka is in the AHL or KHL) 1
JohnC Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 4 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Man John, you are going to have to tell me how you know these things about Kreuger. And i thought Housley was a good coach who just did not have players..And Botteril was a very intelligent guy with a "plan"...but watched a first place team slide/free fall to bottom, and the folks like me who said this guy is awful fire him and you labeled as impatient and impulsive....but said coach now fired and new guy should improve the team greatly ?????..I just get lost in the logic....and I am somehow supposed to have faith in the GM why????? This organization is still a mess, have a bad bad feeling JBOTS is now gunna be gun shy on any trade, and I know..be patient and you just wait till all the kids develop in 4 years the Sabres make their playoff run... This guy is on his 3rd offseason..and he has 2 last place finishes to his name in my mind ..and mind you with inherited talent that was in a playoff race in February the year he arrived..The team has regressed tremendously since he arrived, there just cannot be any question about that. And he best not be preaching patience..and he better hope and pray this new dude can coach up "his" players... and oh, BTW, i would love to be your portfolio manager Nothing personal, but I would never want you to be my portfolio manager. You are too mercurial and impulsive. I appreciate your offer but I don't want to risk being impoverished. Currently, I'm the one driving the $$$$ bus and it is going in the right direction. Thanks but no thanks. 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 24, 2019 Author Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, eball said: So did we have a good draft or not? According to some of the draft analysts, yes. https://theathletic.com/1041814/2019/06/22/pronman-2019-nhl-draft-grades-for-all-31-teams/ Quote Buffalo Sabres: B-plus The Sabres picked a lot of players I have time for. I think Dylan Cozens will be a great player, a potential top-line center or winger who can drive play. Ryan Johnson was perceived as a safe pick, but I knew a lot of teams who were high on him. Aaron Huglen is a player I am very interested in and think he had the most upside of any player picked outside the first. Ultimately I think Cozens will be great, Johnson plays but probably in a lower role, Huglen could play and has all the skill if he hits to be a good player, and I think those European players, while not top prospects yet, all at least have a chance. Pick-by-pick analysis I thought it was kind of a safe draft, outside of Huglen and the tall goalie they took in the 3rd. IMO they went with a lot of high floor players with less question marks (as opposed to high ceiling players that are a bigger gamble to turn into NHL players). 3 were over-agers. Nothing wrong with that with where the Sabres are at. They need their drafts to pan out more than most teams do. They’re desperate for good depth. I like their draft, but I don’t necessarily love it. One thing I did love is that they went with a number of guys who have high compete level and high motors. Guys who give 100% every second of every shift. The Sabres really need some guys like that. Grading NHL drafts the day after is a pointless exercise, though. I remember when the Senators drafted Erik Karlsson, there were a few people calling it a “garbage pick”. The Minnesota Wild got killed by local reporters for taking Jonas Brodin over Duncan Siemens. People killed Columbus for taking Pierre-Luc Dubois over Jesse Puljujarvi. There are tons of examples of like this. There is so much player projection involved in the NHL draft. It takes years to truly know how good a draft class is. Edited June 24, 2019 by BillsFan4 2
JohnC Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 This is an 11 minute WGR link where Ryan Jankowski, the head of amateur scouting, giving a thumb nail description of the selections. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/06-24-sabres-director-amateur-scouting-ryan-jankowski-howard-and-jeremy 1
PromoTheRobot Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, eball said: So did we have a good draft or not? Assume the worst. (Actually it looks decent.) 1 1
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