Boca BIlls Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 12 hours ago, JohnC said: Hockey is not football. With the exception of the unique top talent in the draft it can take three to four years before the talent is mature enough to play in the league, assuming they are ever able to attain that NHL level of play. Most of the players are drafted when they are around 18 years old. That's the system. In football you can draft a player and next year a significant number of those prospect can make the roster and even contribute. So the comparison between football and hockey doesn't fit. As much as people are impatient with Nylander's development it is forgotten by many that he is somewhere between 20-21 years old. It takes time. It's a fact a life that can't be avoided in the player development process. You can get frustrated with the time lag between drafting and playing but it's an inescapable reality. For those clamoring for a blockbuster deal that will miraculously uplift this franchise my question is tell me which one of our better players will you trade away? And what do you expect to get back? If you trade Risto you can get back value but it will be at the cost of creating a major void on the blue line. It's probably that the GM is going to make a number of smaller deals that will bolster the roster rather than a bigger deal or two that will garner more publicity. Again, hockey is not like football. They are two separate worlds with two separate systems. In each respective sport you succeed with the accumulation of smart decisions. If you start acting out of impatience instead of strategically thinking you will fall into the trap of short term moving forward and then long term stepping back. It is what it is. Yet teams show they can go from bad to great quickly... But for Sabres it always takes YEARS.
JohnC Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said: Yet teams show they can go from bad to great quickly... But for Sabres it always takes YEARS. The next time you go to a magic store go to the aisle that has magic wands. Make a purchase and then energetically wave it so your fantasies can immediately be fulfilled.
K-9 Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, JohnC said: The next time you go to a magic store go to the aisle that has magic wands. Make a purchase and then energetically wave it so your fantasies can immediately be fulfilled. 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 23, 2019 Author Posted June 23, 2019 Teams were planning on the cap being set at $83 to $83.5M. Instead it’s set at $81.5M. It doesn’t sound like that big of a difference, but it is to NHL GM’s. We saw Subban traded for peanuts just to gain some cap space. Hopefully Botterill is able to take advantage.
BillsFan4 Posted June 23, 2019 Author Posted June 23, 2019 Tyler Myers is set to meet with Vancouver tomorrow (tampering window opens tonight at midnight). I think Benning could end up offering him a crazy deal. He’s been going hard after a RHD all offseason. He seems to be feeling the heat, and now that he traded their 1st he will probably be even more desperate to improve. I can already see it.... Tampa Bay will be the last team left standing in the Risto sweepstakes and since they already solved their cap issues (for the most part), Botterill having lost his leverage will panic, end up caving in and selling Risto much cheaper than he should. Risto will then go to Tampa and thrive on a legit NHL team while winning the Cup + Conn Symthe + Norris. Then Sabres fans will start a GoFundMe campaign to buy a rocket and launch Botterill into the sun.... ?
JohnC Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 10 hours ago, K-9 said: I understand the frustration and impatience people have with this lagging team. The mistakes that Pegula made when he bought the team set this franchise back. He got caught up with his unbridled enthusiasm by hiring "names" to run his franchise. There was so much internal confusion it was hard to decipher who was running the clown show. And then to compound his mistakes the owner got caught up in throwing money around for mediocre players who were then enriched for life. You think that is going to create an environment of self-motivation and hard work? The owner then responded by bringing in Murray to take control. In the world of analytics bluster isn't conducive to success. The media might enjoy repeating the tough guy "quotes" but it doesn't disguise the fact that bad hockey decisions were being made. As with the football business Pegula was new to the hockey business. He made some big amateurish mistakes that set us back. Instead of starting the rebuilding process in his first year he wasted three years because the staff he hired to run the operation was inept. Those accumulated mistakes caused even more time to go by in order to clear out those mistakes and get back on a rational path. It was set back after set back. I believe that the organization has been stabilized and the operation is being professionally run. It's just going to take time before the body of work has crossed a threshold where the team moves up the ranks from being mediocre to being solid to being good. For those who demand that we be good right now because we have been bad for so long I say grow up! Acting rashly because of impatience is acting stupidly. We have had enough of that. Now that the cap has been determined I expect the GM will soon make some medium type deals that improves the roster. Moving forward is better than moving backwards.
K-9 Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, JohnC said: I understand the frustration and impatience people have with this lagging team. The mistakes that Pegula made when he bought the team set this franchise back. He got caught up with his unbridled enthusiasm by hiring "names" to run his franchise. There was so much internal confusion it was hard to decipher who was running the clown show. And then to compound his mistakes the owner got caught up in throwing money around for mediocre players who were then enriched for life. You think that is going to create an environment of self-motivation and hard work? The owner then responded by bringing in Murray to take control. In the world of analytics bluster isn't conducive to success. The media might enjoy repeating the tough guy "quotes" but it doesn't disguise the fact that bad hockey decisions were being made. As with the football business Pegula was new to the hockey business. He made some big amateurish mistakes that set us back. Instead of starting the rebuilding process in his first year he wasted three years because the staff he hired to run the operation was inept. Those accumulated mistakes caused even more time to go by in order to clear out those mistakes and get back on a rational path. It was set back after set back. I believe that the organization has been stabilized and the operation is being professionally run. It's just going to take time before the body of work has crossed a threshold where the team moves up the ranks from being mediocre to being solid to being good. For those who demand that we be good right now because we have been bad for so long I say grow up! Acting rashly because of impatience is acting stupidly. We have had enough of that. Now that the cap has been determined I expect the GM will soon make some medium type deals that improves the roster. Moving forward is better than moving backwards. We are mired in the abyss of really, really bad drafts under Darcy R and Murray. They hit on very little, if anything, especially in the mid to later rounds where good teams find a gem or two. In the NHL, good drafts and talent development are critical. And we have screwed the pooch big time 10+ years now.
JohnC Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 9 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Tyler Myers is set to meet with Vancouver tomorrow (tampering window opens tonight at midnight). I think Benning could end up offering him a crazy deal. He’s been going hard after a RHD all offseason. He seems to be feeling the heat, and now that he traded their 1st he will probably be even more desperate to improve. I can already see it.... Tampa Bay will be the last team left standing in the Risto sweepstakes and since they already solved their cap issues (for the most part), Botterill having lost his leverage will panic, end up caving in and selling Risto much cheaper than he should. Risto will then go to Tampa and thrive on a legit NHL team while winning the Cup + Conn Symthe + Norris. Then Sabres fans will start a GoFundMe campaign to buy a rocket and launch Botterill into the sun.... ? I don't understand your reasoning; and I don't understand your alarmist attitude on this trade issue. Our GM has the leverage in a Risto trade because he doesn't have to deal him unless it gets him a good return. Keeping him is not a bad outcome. He is as much of an asset, if not more, with us as he is with other teams. Right now, I'm leaning toward keeping him. With better coaching and playing with a better roster his inconsistent play can be toned down to the point where he will become an anchor defenseman for us. With him I think using him less and simplifying his role will make him a better player. 2
JohnC Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: We are mired in the abyss of really, really bad drafts under Darcy R and Murray. They hit on very little, if anything, especially in the mid to later rounds where good teams find a gem or two. In the NHL, good drafts and talent development are critical. And we have screwed the pooch big time 10+ years now. You more succinctly summarized my rambling dissertation. I consider Yzerman as one of the best personnel men and GMs in the game. He had tremendous success in Detroit and Tampa. Now he is back with Detroit to take over the operation. He was asked in an interview during the draft what he was going to do to get Detroit back to its glory days. His short response was: We are going to draft well and develop players. There are no short cuts. It's funny but I didn't hear him sayin anything about waving a magic wand to quickly fix the team. 1
JohnC Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 The below WGR link is an interview with Jankowski, head of the team's amateur scouting department. He gives a summary of the picks. This is a 9 minute segment. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/jankowski-0622mp3
K-9 Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 50 minutes ago, JohnC said: The below WGR link is an interview with Jankowski, head of the team's amateur scouting department. He gives a summary of the picks. This is a 9 minute segment. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/jankowski-0622mp3 I liked his comment about projecting where a player may be in two years and seven years. Seven years. Wow. Should I have some renewed hope for Darcy's or Murray's picks that are still mucking around somewhere out there? 1
JohnC Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: I liked his comment about projecting where a player may be in two years and seven years. Seven years. Wow. Should I have some renewed hope for Darcy's or Murray's picks that are still mucking around somewhere out there? A player can make it to the league in three years or so and still not reach his prime until a few more years have elapsed. Take a player like Tage Thompson. It wouldn't be surprising if he makes the big club next season but because of his tall and lanky stature it might take a few more years before he is playing at near his full potential. Another example is Mittlestadt. Where is he going to be next season in comparison to where he will be three more years down the line? How long ago was Risto drafted and has his growth as a player stopped? I hope not. The seven year projection by the head scout was mostly in reference to goalies. The goalie we drafted yesterday won't be ready for the NHL until at least five years have elapsed. It's the nature of the position and also a product of his current physical stature and requirement for physical maturation. My belief and hope is that this current regime is much more attuned to the development process compared to the prior regimes. They are less likely to rush players who aren't ready like Gregerenko or even Nylander who should have been returned to the juniors after being drafted. With prior regimes players like Pilut and Olaffson would have been rushed up sooner rather than later which in the end would have stunted their development.
4merper4mer Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, JohnC said: A player can make it to the league in three years or so and still not reach his prime until a few more years have elapsed. Take a player like Tage Thompson. It wouldn't be surprising if he makes the big club next season but because of his tall and lanky stature it might take a few more years before he is playing at near his full potential. Another example is Mittlestadt. Where is he going to be next season in comparison to where he will be three more years down the line? How long ago was Risto drafted and has his growth as a player stopped? I hope not. The seven year projection by the head scout was mostly in reference to goalies. The goalie we drafted yesterday won't be ready for the NHL until at least five years have elapsed. It's the nature of the position and also a product of his current physical stature and requirement for physical maturation. My belief and hope is that this current regime is much more attuned to the development process compared to the prior regimes. They are less likely to rush players who aren't ready like Gregerenko or even Nylander who should have been returned to the juniors after being drafted. With prior regimes players like Pilut and Olaffson would have been rushed up sooner rather than later which in the end would have stunted their development. So an 8 seed before Eichel is Chara's age is somewhat plausible? 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 23, 2019 Author Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, JohnC said: I don't understand your reasoning; and I don't understand your alarmist attitude on this trade issue. Our GM has the leverage in a Risto trade because he doesn't have to deal him unless it gets him a good return. Keeping him is not a bad outcome. He is as much of an asset, if not more, with us as he is with other teams. Right now, I'm leaning toward keeping him. With better coaching and playing with a better roster his inconsistent play can be toned down to the point where he will become an anchor defenseman for us. With him I think using him less and simplifying his role will make him a better player. It was a joke, man. Edited June 23, 2019 by BillsFan4 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 23, 2019 Author Posted June 23, 2019 Not sure I buy this. It goes against everything else we’ve heard.
4merper4mer Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said: Not sure I buy this. It goes against everything else we’ve heard. Well he is a pretty good player so it's imperative that we dump him.
Boca BIlls Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 13 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Teams were planning on the cap being set at $83 to $83.5M. Instead it’s set at $81.5M. It doesn’t sound like that big of a difference, but it is to NHL GM’s. We saw Subban traded for peanuts just to gain some cap space. Hopefully Botterill is able to take advantage. Botterill seems to be happy failing.
BillsFan4 Posted June 23, 2019 Author Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) Another potential trade target off the board. Vegas has to move someone, though. They are already over the cap before this deal is even signed. Edited June 23, 2019 by BillsFan4
njbuff Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 Is Ristolainen a second pairing defenseman? He is a career -143. Ouch. But he is a consistent 40+ point man and those don't grow on trees. I don't know what the Sabres would want in return, but, I think NJ is one of the teams they are talking to.
BillsFan4 Posted June 23, 2019 Author Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, njbuff said: Is Ristolainen a second pairing defenseman? He is a career -143. Ouch. But he is a consistent 40+ point man and those don't grow on trees. I don't know what the Sabres would want in return, but, I think NJ is one of the teams they are talking to. He is easily a 2nd pair defenseman IMO. Here’s at an NHL analyst recently said about Risto’s situation - https://theathletic.com/1019893/2019/06/11/examining-15-potential-trade-targets-for-the-lightning-to-bolster-blueline/ Quote “I like the guy a lot,” one NHL analyst said of Ristolainen. “I know everyone is down on him because his plus-minus is awful, but he’s big, he’s got really good offensive skills, he’s a lot better defensively than people give him credit for. He was just dealt such a pile of (crap), that Buffalo team is awful and playing 27-28 minutes a night for them in November. I would discount a lot of the negatives. I liked what I saw.” Hes been put in a no-win situation his entire Buffalo career. He’s had crap for partners (Scandella and Pilut have been his 2 best defensive partners in his 6 year Sabre career (and he only p,Ayer with each for a short time). He’s consistently in the top 5-10:for minutes played in the entire NHL. He almost always faces the toughest competition - his QoC (quality of competition) stats are near the top of the NHL too. He is being used as a league wide top 5 d man instead of as a #2 or #3, which is what he is. If a team acquires him and then uses him properly, he’s going to make buffalo look foolish for ever trading him. Edited June 23, 2019 by BillsFan4 1
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