May Day 10 Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/4/2020 at 11:06 AM, 4merper4mer said: A team that goes 0-0-82 gets 82 points. If you add up points from all 31 teams it will invariably exceed 31*82 or 2,452 which renders that team below average. It's not really splitting heirs to call them below .500 because an overtime loss is a loss. IMO it should be that a regulation win nets 3 points which would make every game have equal value. It is odd that some games are valued higher than others in the current system. It probably evens out over time but not for every team every year. Your example isn't a good one because the 1-0 team has two games in hand. If you made them 1-2-0 then you are correct and the 1-2-0 team is at best tied with the three teams that beat the 0-0-3 team. Thank you for this! I have been trying to explain this at hockey fans for years and 90% cannot make this leap. Last season, only 9 teams were below ".500" based on a clean 82 points. Some seasons it is even less. Some games are worth more than others so it throws traditional .500 out the window. .500 historically means you are at the mean. "true" .500 is finding out the average number of points in the NHL and basing it on that. Last season it was 91 points or approximately a 42-33-7 record which I would consider '.500'. The season before, it was 92 points. 3-2-1-0 Points system seems like such an obvious, slam-dunk change, I cannot figure out why the NHL resists it. The OT/SO Win/Loss system skews the standings.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/Z7r9jZ1Aej-qz?tmrid=TMR-2721778&routing=y&_ga=2.130001355.636207758.1580921338-1910505481.1580921338
apuszczalowski Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/Z7r9jZ1Aej-qz?tmrid=TMR-2721778&routing=y&_ga=2.130001355.636207758.1580921338-1910505481.1580921338 $17 seems to be the starting point for better seats that get you into the 100's All the really cheap ones are way up at the top. Either way, probably not what you would have expected in 'Hockey Heaven'
shrader Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Slight correction: Hutton 5-13 Johansson 1-14 Just didn’t want to see Carter Hutton cheated out of his superior stat line. My personal favorite was when Rob Ray said "you can't just throw Hutton to the wolves" when he was pulled in the second. Yes Rob, a guy who just allowed 3 goals on 5 shots over nearly 11 minutes of the second period really was getting thrown to the wolves. He really needs to stop trying to put a positive spin on absolutely everything. Even knowing that he's an idiot, it's still insulting to the audience. 2
bbb Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 5 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: For @4merper4mer at least Housley is a Sabre who is happy. Before what break? Didn't they just have two breaks?
apuszczalowski Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 Just now, bbb said: Before what break? Didn't they just have two breaks? I thought the same thing too, am I missing something or does he mean the trade deadline? 29 minutes ago, shrader said: My personal favorite was when Rob Ray said "you can't just throw Hutton to the wolves" when he was pulled in the second. Yes Rob, a guy who just allowed 3 goals on 5 shots over nearly 11 minutes of the second period really was getting thrown to the wolves. He really needs to stop trying to put a positive spin on absolutely everything. Even knowing that he's an idiot, it's still insulting to the audience. Seeing as Hutton is in his 30s and played a bunch of years in the NHL, I wouldn't call him playing in a game "throwing him to the wolves", unless he was mistaken and refering to the backup goalie who's been called up. 1
K-9 Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, shrader said: My personal favorite was when Rob Ray said "you can't just throw Hutton to the wolves" when he was pulled in the second. Yes Rob, a guy who just allowed 3 goals on 5 shots over nearly 11 minutes of the second period really was getting thrown to the wolves. He really needs to stop trying to put a positive spin on absolutely everything. Even knowing that he's an idiot, it's still insulting to the audience. I’ll use a Rob Ray word to critique Rob Ray’s quote about getting thrown to the wolves: that’s “luderous.” 7 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: For @4merper4mer at least Housley is a Sabre who is happy. Wait, what? Is it possible that JBotts doesn’t know where we are in the season? If he’s two weeks behind, he may be two weeks late for the trade deadline, too. Serioisly though, I heard his WGR spot yesterday and I grow less and less impressed with him each day. I don’t think he’s in command at all.
shrader Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 10 games between the Columbus game and the trade deadline. That has to be what that quote is getting at. I know we love picking on them for every little thing, but I'm not going to crucify him for choosing the wrong word (assuming that is a word-for-word quote).
bbb Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, shrader said: 10 games between the Columbus game and the trade deadline. That has to be what that quote is getting at. I know we love picking on them for every little thing, but I'm not going to crucify him for choosing the wrong word (assuming that is a word-for-word quote). Why wouldn't GR clarify what he's saying before tweeting it out? You know how journalists used to do when they gave a *****. 1
Greybeard Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, shrader said: My personal favorite was when Rob Ray said "you can't just throw Hutton to the wolves" when he was pulled in the second. Yes Rob, a guy who just allowed 3 goals on 5 shots over nearly 11 minutes of the second period really was getting thrown to the wolves. He really needs to stop trying to put a positive spin on absolutely everything. Even knowing that he's an idiot, it's still insulting to the audience. When Ray said that it was because he was referring to the lack of support Hutton was getting from his defense. Hutton was pulled to send a message to the team to get moving. That is common practice when a team isn't competing. I believe you can score on just about every shot. So let's look at the scores on Hutton. On the first goal, only two players seemed to know where the puck was after the shot from the point. I believe it hit Risto's stick and bounced up and into the corner. The only two players that saw it were the guy that scored and Skinner. You can blame Hutton for not seeing it, but the other guys on the ice didn't either. The second goal was a shot to the upper left corner. Hutton had no chance. Third goal, upper right corner, no chance. Fourth goal, in the five hole on a guy that was wide open. You can blame that on Hutton but where was the defense. Fifth goal, upper left corner, no chance. The goal on Johansson hit the near post and bounced to the far side and went in. No chance. They also hit posts 3 other times, so they could have easily had 3 more goals. When a team shoots like this, it will be near impossible to beat them on any day no matter who is in goal. Of course the D is allowing it. When Eichel scores on shots like that, do you think they are great shots or the goalie should have had them? Now the other side of the shooting coin. How many Sabres are capable with any consistency to shoot like that. Only two in my opinion, Eichel and Olafsson. That's a big part of the problem. The Sabres get opportunities but can't put the puck where it has to be. This is why they don't score more goals. Teams don't normally shoot that accurately. Lots of games the shots are wide. Last nights was an example of what happens when they are accurate. When goalies screw up, they deserve to be criticized, but when they have no chance, I can't see dumping on them.
4merper4mer Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 Tomorrow's game is a no win situation. If they win its Detroit. If they lose.....oh boy. I guess they can avoid a revolt of fans. I don't want to see that.
Jauronimo Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 https://hockeytroll.ca/2020/02/05/nazem-kadri-micd-up-kadri-gets-caught-chirping-at-brandon-montour-words-can-hurt-too/ Ouch.
Cripple Creek Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 27 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Ouch. Only printable word that comes to mind.
K-9 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: https://hockeytroll.ca/2020/02/05/nazem-kadri-micd-up-kadri-gets-caught-chirping-at-brandon-montour-words-can-hurt-too/ Ouch. Happens countless times in every game. But Kadri makes a fair point.
Richmond_Bills Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Jauronimo said: https://hockeytroll.ca/2020/02/05/nazem-kadri-micd-up-kadri-gets-caught-chirping-at-brandon-montour-words-can-hurt-too/ Ouch. he isn't wrong.....
plenzmd1 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 15 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Tomorrow's game is a no win situation. If they win its Detroit. If they lose.....oh boy. I guess they can avoid a revolt of fans. I don't want to see that. ha! Found their way out of it! Now I gotta watch..*****
plenzmd1 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 nice article by Wysh Quote There might not be a bigger disaster as an organization in the NHL right now than the Sabres, when you combine a lack of postseason appearances, organizational turmoil, wasted assets and opportunity, and a growing revolution among the fans. Consider that the Ottawa Senators have had roster sell-offs and sexual harassment scandals and cyberbullying scandals and players caught on a hidden camera badmouthing coaches and an owner with an outright adversarial relationship with his own fans ... and they still have a clearer path back to contention than do the Sabres. That's really saying something. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/28643117/why-buffalo-sabres-nhl-biggest-disaster @JohnC should like as it advocates for keeping JBots
BillsFan4 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Posted February 6, 2020 Came across this article - https://www.diebytheblade.com/2020/2/5/21123483/should-the-buffalo-sabres-move-on-from-jason-botterill Should the Sabres move on from Botterill? ‘The 2020 offseason is the ideal situation for a new general manager to come in, and immediately put their stamp on the roster’ Quote The summer of 2020 is a critical point for the franchise. With only 13 contracts remaining on the ledger for the 2020-21 season, the very makeup of the roster is on the line. It may be some time before the Sabres have another opportunity to purge such a heavy portion of their under-performing roster without penalty. On top of that, contractual decisions for players like Sam Reinhart, Victor Olofsson, and Brandon Montour need to be made. Has Jason Botterill earned the opportunity to make those decisions? I thought this was an interesting question. The author says that he has not earned the opportunity and I thought he made some pretty good points as to why. I decided to look at his roster moves since he’s been here. I am not looking at the draft, only free agent signings and trades. His drafts look ok so far but it’s too soon to tell (for the most part). His moves: (not counting the draft) -Scandella -Pominville -Sheary -Hunwick -Elie -Wilson -Hutton -Chad Johnson -Beaulieu -Sobotka -Berglund -Thompson -Skinner -Montour -Jokiharju -Vesey -Miller -Frolik -Johansson -Pilut -Pouliot -Josefson -Griffith I may be forgetting some (feel free to point any out that I forgot) Looking at that list - good: Skinner, Jokiharju, Pilut, Johansson, Montour maybe? -Skinner was a good move, but supposedly we were 1 of only 2 teams on his NMC (Toronto being the other, who had no cap space to add him). Still, credit where credit is due. It was a good trade. -Joker trade looks fantastic. He took a bad 1st round pick by the previous GM and turned it into a valuable asset. Joker looks like a top 4, with potential to even possibly be a #2 d man for years to come. Great trade (so far...). -Pilut is a good signing, but I don’t think Botterill was the point man. Iirc, I believe Steve Greeley was, along with their head European scout. But again, you have to give botterill some credit. -Johansson was a nice signing for the price. Everyone was happy with that move. -Montour looks good, but it’s hard to judge. He’s being used all over the place. We haven’t seen him in a consistent role with a consistent partner. Guhle hasn’t exactly lit things up in Anaheim and the 1st ended up being late in the draft. So overall it looks like a decent trade. No real complaints. The bad: ROR trade was just brutal. Maybe Thompson or Johnson turn into something and make the trade look better. But as of now there’s no real argument that Buffalo did well in this trade. And you can’t even say “well, we wouldn’t have been able to trade for Skinner” because Botterill took back almost an even amount of cap in the ROR trade. The rest of the list is a whole lot of ‘meh’. I get that some of the moves were to add some cheap depth and I don’t have an issue with that. Plus, you have to take into account the Sabres cap situation at the time of the signings/trades (I couldn’t really find accurate cap info for 2018 or 2018). But looking over the list, it doesn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence that he’s going to suddenly fill out the team this offseason with better performing players. https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/buffalo-sabres-detroit-red-wings-sabres-fans-sabres-live-stream/ This article makes some similar points: Quote They have almost no long-term commitments (or commitments of any kind beyond this season) outside of their top couple of players (Jack Eichel and Jeff Skinner), while they have seven pending unrestricted free agents after this season (Jimmy Vesey, Michael Frolik, Zach Bogosian, Conor Sheary, Zemgus Girgensons, Johan Larsson, and Scott Wilson). There’s not really a compelling argument to re-sign any of them right now. Before you even get in to improving the roster, they are simply going to need to to refill almost half of the roster just to put enough bodies on the bench next season. That’s not an easy short-term overhaul, and you also have to trust that you have the right decision-makers in place to do it. The Sabres have so many holes to fill and so many needs to address in the short-term that it’s going to take nearly flawless roster decisions to make a significant short-term jump in the standings in the next year or two. Nothing in their roster decisions with the current management team suggest that is something that is likely, or even possible. There are also some pending RFA’s to make decisions on - Reinhart, Olofsson, Montour, Ullmark. The article also mentions that the Sabres can’t afford to keep starting over. So, do you bring in a new GM (that doesn’t know the roster/players)? Or do you stick with the current GM for one more season and see if he’s finally able to fix this roster? I can make an argument for a new GM, and I can also see some of the merits of giving Botterill one more offseason to make improvements. Botterill has done a pretty good job revamping the defense. I’ll give him that. But the forwards are a mess, as is the goaltending. I will say this - the Pegulas know what goes on behind the scenes. They know if there were trades/signings he could have made (etc). If they feel strongly that he’s still the guy for this job, then they need to stick to their guns and not cave to fan pressure. Eventually they have to allow a GM some time to build a team. I’m just not sure if that GM is Jason Botterill... Ray Shero being available is also tempting. If they do move on from botterill, I hope they bring in a competent veteran GM to at least get this thing back on the tracks. No more rookies learning on the job, at least right now. They can’t afford to waste any more of eichel’s prime.
shrader Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Should the Sabres move on from Botterill? ‘The 2020 offseason is the ideal situation for a new general manager to come in, and immediately put their stamp on the roster’ I don't mean to skip the rest, but this line nails what has been my line of thinking for a little while now. There's so much more freedom and flexibility after June, a GM could enact his vision pretty quickly. 1
4merper4mer Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: Came across this article - https://www.diebytheblade.com/2020/2/5/21123483/should-the-buffalo-sabres-move-on-from-jason-botterill Should the Sabres move on from Botterill? ‘The 2020 offseason is the ideal situation for a new general manager to come in, and immediately put their stamp on the roster’ I thought this was an interesting question. The author says that he has not earned the opportunity and I thought he made some pretty good points as to why. I decided to look at his roster moves since he’s been here. I am not looking at the draft, only free agent signings and trades. His drafts look ok so far but it’s too soon to tell (for the most part). His moves: (not counting the draft) -Scandella -Pominville -Sheary -Hunwick -Elie -Wilson -Hutton -Chad Johnson -Beaulieu -Sobotka -Berglund -Thompson -Skinner -Montour -Jokiharju -Vesey -Miller -Frolik -Johansson -Pilut -Pouliot -Josefson -Griffith I may be forgetting some (feel free to point any out that I forgot) Looking at that list - good: Skinner, Jokiharju, Pilut, Johansson, Montour maybe? -Skinner was a good move, but supposedly we were 1 of only 2 teams on his NMC (Toronto being the other, who had no cap space to add him). Still, credit where credit is due. It was a good trade. -Joker trade looks fantastic. He took a bad 1st round pick by the previous GM and turned it into a valuable asset. Joker looks like a top 4, with potential to even possibly be a #2 d man for years to come. Great trade (so far...). -Pilut is a good signing, but I don’t think Botterill was the point man. Iirc, I believe Steve Greeley was, along with their head European scout. But again, you have to give botterill some credit. -Johansson was a nice signing for the price. Everyone was happy with that move. -Montour looks good, but it’s hard to judge. He’s being used all over the place. We haven’t seen him in a consistent role with a consistent partner. Guhle hasn’t exactly lit things up in Anaheim and the 1st ended up being late in the draft. So overall it looks like a decent trade. No real complaints. The bad: ROR trade was just brutal. Maybe Thompson or Johnson turn into something and make the trade look better. But as of now there’s no real argument that Buffalo did well in this trade. And you can’t even say “well, we wouldn’t have been able to trade for Skinner” because Botterill took back almost an even amount of cap in the ROR trade. The rest of the list is a whole lot of ‘meh’. I get that some of the moves were to add some cheap depth and I don’t have an issue with that. Plus, you have to take into account the Sabres cap situation at the time of the signings/trades (I couldn’t really find accurate cap info for 2018 or 2018). But looking over the list, it doesn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence that he’s going to suddenly fill out the team this offseason with better performing players. https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/buffalo-sabres-detroit-red-wings-sabres-fans-sabres-live-stream/ This article makes some similar points: There are also some pending RFA’s to make decisions on - Reinhart, Olofsson, Montour, Ullmark. The article also mentions that the Sabres can’t afford to keep starting over. So, do you bring in a new GM (that doesn’t know the roster/players)? Or do you stick with the current GM for one more season and see if he’s finally able to fix this roster? I can make an argument for a new GM, and I can also see some of the merits of giving Botterill one more offseason to make improvements. Botterill has done a pretty good job revamping the defense. I’ll give him that. But the forwards are a mess, as is the goaltending. I will say this - the Pegulas know what goes on behind the scenes. They know if there were trades/signings he could have made (etc). If they feel strongly that he’s still the guy for this job, then they need to stick to their guns and not cave to fan pressure. Eventually they have to allow a GM some time to build a team. I’m just not sure if that GM is Jason Botterill... Ray Shero being available is also tempting. If they do move on from botterill, I hope they bring in a competent veteran GM to at least get this thing back on the tracks. No more rookies learning on the job, at least right now. They can’t afford to waste any more of eichel’s prime. The net of this is that Bots took three years to turn us into an expansion team that has no ability to draft players from other teams.
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