4merper4mer Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 44 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I'm excited, how about you guys? What's the trajectory? Are you aware we drafted a guy that projects as a 2nd line center in 2027? Also, word is that the strength and conditioning coach at Rochester got 2 pull ups out of Mottlestadt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: What's the trajectory? Are you aware we drafted a guy that projects as a 2nd line center in 2027? Also, word is that the strength and conditioning coach at Rochester got 2 pull ups out of Mottlestadt. I was told that I was foolish for being excited about the Bills, but not about the Sabres. Who's foolish now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 11 hours ago, K-9 said: They are done. They won’t recover from this loss. We saw the same weak minded group we’ve seen under Bylsma and Housley. This group has now quit on Krueger. Nice. Why do you say they quit on Krueger? I feel like we must be watching different games or something, because I definitely haven’t seen the players quit on him. I saw them mentally collapse again, but that’s much different than quitting on the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, Helpmenow said: Sabres are still soft even if Val James was in the lineup Now that is soft 1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said: I was told that I was foolish for being excited about the Bills, but not about the Sabres. Who's foolish now? sabres played well the first half, it’s a very competitive season for every playoff spot very much enjoying the Oil cratering, but only because of the obnoxious fans I have to deal with Edited January 1, 2020 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 17 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Building culture the one Buffalo way. What, are we now up to 4 trade requests in 12 months! Way to build a room! But according to @JohnC , Botts is doing a bang up job at building the program! Sorry if I don’t worry about 2 crappy players wanting out. Bogosian is washed up. I doubt anyone even wants him for free. And ERod is making $2M and he hasn’t scored a goal since March. He has a whole 3 points this season and is a dime a dozen AHL/NHL tweener. Maybe they should focus on actually doing something on the ice to earn playing time instead. IMO Krueger is in the right not playing them. And I doubt many GMs are willing to even take these 2 players. At best what can we hope for, taking back another similarly crappy player on a similarly bad contract? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: Sorry if I don’t worry about 2 crappy players wanting out. Bogosian is washed up. I doubt anyone even wants him for free. And ERod is making $2M and he hasn’t scored a goal since March. He has a whole 3 points this season and is a dime a dozen AHL/NHL tweener. Maybe they should focus on actually doing something on the ice to earn playing time instead. IMO Krueger is in the right not playing them. And I doubt many GMs are willing to even take these 2 players. At best what can we hope for, taking back another similarly crappy player on a similarly bad contract? The problem is the quantity of players that want out, that is not a great reflection on the team/culture. Botts has but himself in this situation. Waive Bogo and hope someone picks him up, trade Miller if he is going to sit the majority of games. Not getting what he is worth? To bad, you are the one who created this glut so guys like him have to sit and erode any value he had. That's the problem with the trade requests IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Why do you say they quit on Krueger? I feel like we must be watching different games or something, because I definitely haven’t seen the players quit on him. I saw them mentally collapse again, but that’s much different than quitting on the coach. Mentally collapse or quit, however we want to phrase it, equals the same thing in my mind given that it’s now three consecutive coaches they’ve done it to. Regardless, I don’t see them recovering from this debacle. Exorcising the Tampa Bay demon was essential to their season, for several reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suorangefan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: I'm excited, how about you guys? More excited with losses than wins. At this point we're falling pretty far behind in the playoff race and the teams that we'd need to pass are good so the playoffs doesn't look like it's happening. Give me the losses and a top 5 pick that can hopefully be on the team next year (along with Cozens) instead of pick 8-12 which has resulted in some pretty bad picks for us. If we can somehow get Stutzle, Raymond, Rossi etc. to pair with Cozens then we'll have the pieces to form another good line. I'd like to see Ristolainen get flipped for a fast puck hound like Kase too if Anaheim had any interest in that. Edited January 1, 2020 by suorangefan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: The problem is the quantity of players that want out, that is not a great reflection on the team/culture. Botts has but himself in this situation. Waive Bogo and hope someone picks him up, trade Miller if he is going to sit the majority of games. Not getting what he is worth? To bad, you are the one who created this glut so guys like him have to sit and erode any value he had. That's the problem with the trade requests IMO. I agree about Botterill creating the logjam but I disagree with part of your proposed solution. Not the waive Bogo part (though I don’t think that would sit well with Eichel or anyone else). But the dumping guys like Miller for crap returns. This logjam on defense isn’t a long term issue. It’ll solve itself all on its own after this season, and suddenly we won’t have the defensive depth we do now. Dumping a good top 4 RHD like Miller for anything they can get would be short sighted. If someone offers us a top 9 forward, then sure. But to dump him just because crappy players like Bogo and ERod are upset about their playing time is letting the inmates run the asylum. You can’t let crappy depth players force you into moves that for the long term future of the team (IMO anyway). I also think desperation trades signals to other GMs that all they have to do is wait you out. IMO it makes it harder to make proper value trades in the future. It happened with Tim Murray. Also, if Botterill starts making panic trades, I will question his plan a lot more than I am now. We may not like Botterill’s timeline and patience, but at least I feel like he has a plan that he believes in. Personally, I think Botterill is targeting this offseason as the one where he can finally make bigger changes to the team. They will have a lot of cap space and a bunch of contract come off the books. It’s a lot harder to turn over a roster in the NHL vs the NFL, with all contracts being fully guaranteed and cap space at an ultra premium (especially right now with the cap staying stagnant the next couple seasons). If Botts just re-signs all the crappy players coming off the books, then I’ll be about done with him. I don’t want it to sound like I am defending Botterill. I have a lot of questions about him already, but as I said I’m willing to give him this offseason (it’s not like it’s up to me anyway...). 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Mentally collapse or quit, however we want to phrase it, equals the same thing in my mind given that it’s now three consecutive coaches they’ve done it to. Regardless, I don’t see them recovering from this debacle. Exorcising the Tampa Bay demon was essential to their season, for several reasons. I see it as much more of an indictment of these players than the coach. How many coaches do we need to go through before we realize that no coach is going to be successful with this group of players? It’s the same failed team as last year. But at least Krueger has them playing better hockey than housley or bylsma or any previous Sabres coach since the rebuild started. This is the most competent the Sabres have looked in a long time. They may still be losing but at least they are entertaining to watch most nights. At least we are getting a consistent effort from the players. I feel like a lot of the losses are just due to lack of talent. Like the 2 Boston games. I thought the Sabres actually outplayed Boston, but they just can’t score. They dominated the scoring chances for stretches of the game, but then they make 1 or 2 mistakes and it’s in the back of their net. I don't see it as quitting though. In fact, I feel just the opposite. I think this is the first time that these players have actually bought in to what a coach was preaching. That’s been a big issue in years past. Guys weren’t willing to stick to the coaches system. I don't think the loss had anything to do with effort or quitting on the coach. They are just mentally fragile. It seems to be improving compared to previous seasons, but it’s still an issue. I think all the losing has broken some of these players. I have actually been happy with Krueger. I don’t want him going anywhere. I want to see what he can do with more talent. That’s on the GM. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Noticed served. Embracing your role on a team, regardless of how prominent or minor, is ESSENTIAL to team success. Complaining about it is the exact opposite. ERod gets $2m per to skate up and down the ice each evening while having virtually NO impact to the team’s success. The Sabres rewarded his potential by giving him that deal in the first place. He hasn’t lived up to it. Not by a long shot. And he has the temerity to complain? He needs to be jettisoned just for the negative vibes he brings. Same goes for Bogo and anyone else who can’t play well enough to earn more time (Miller?). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I agree about Botterill creating the logjam but I disagree with part of your proposed solution. Not the waive Bogo part (though I don’t think that would sit well with Eichel or anyone else). But the dumping guys like Miller for crap returns. This logjam on defense isn’t a long term issue. It’ll solve itself all on its own after this season, and suddenly we won’t have the defensive depth we do now. Dumping a good top 4 RHD like Miller for anything they can get would be short sighted. If someone offers us a top 9 forward, then sure. But to dump him just because crappy players like Bogo and ERod are upset about their playing time is letting the inmates run the asylum. You can’t let crappy depth players force you into moves that for the long term future of the team (IMO anyway). I also think desperation trades signals to other GMs that all they have to do is wait you out. IMO it makes it harder to make proper value trades in the future. It happened with Tim Murray. Also, if Botterill starts making panic trades, I will question his plan a lot more than I am now. We may not like Botterill’s timeline and patience, but at least I feel like he has a plan that he believes in. Personally, I think Botterill is targeting this offseason as the one where he can finally make bigger changes to the team. They will have a lot of cap space and a bunch of contract come off the books. It’s a lot harder to turn over a roster in the NHL vs the NFL, with all contracts being fully guaranteed and cap space at an ultra premium (especially right now with the cap staying stagnant the next couple seasons). If Botts just re-signs all the crappy players coming off the books, then I’ll be about done with him. I don’t want it to sound like I am defending Botterill. I have a lot of questions about him already, but as I said I’m willing to give him this offseason (it’s not like it’s up to me anyway...). I see it as much more of an indictment of these players than the coach. How many coaches do we need to go through before we realize that no coach is going to be successful with this group of players? It’s the same failed team as last year. But at least Krueger has them playing better hockey than housley or bylsma or any previous Sabres coach since the rebuild started. This is the most competent the Sabres have looked in a long time. They may still be losing but at least they are entertaining to watch most nights. At least we are getting a consistent effort from the players. I feel like a lot of the losses are just due to lack of talent. Like the 2 Boston games. I thought the Sabres actually outplayed Boston, but they just can’t score. They dominated the scoring chances for stretches of the game, but then they make 1 or 2 mistakes and it’s in the back of their net. I don't see it as quitting though. In fact, I feel just the opposite. I think this is the first time that these players have actually bought in to what a coach was preaching. That’s been a big issue in years past. Guys weren’t willing to stick to the coaches system. I don't think the loss had anything to do with effort or quitting on the coach. They are just mentally fragile. It seems to be improving compared to previous seasons, but it’s still an issue. I think all the losing has broken some of these players. I have actually been happy with Krueger. I don’t want him going anywhere. I want to see what he can do with more talent. That’s on the GM. I don’t put any of it on Krueger. Just to be clear, I put a player’s attitude on the player 100% of the time. Good coach, bad coach, smart coach, dumb coach, it doesn’t matter. Attitude is always in the player’s control 100% of the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Okay, based on this I can say to (or irrationally convince) myself that this first Krueger year is like McDermott’s first season where he pretty much said that there would be pain in the short term. Then we “backed into” the playoffs. I’m going with that for the time being to fit into my plan of holding on until early February. ? No results or hope after that Rangers game, I’m out thru October. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, K-9 said: I don’t put any of it on Krueger. Just to be clear, I put a player’s attitude on the player 100% of the time. Good coach, bad coach, smart coach, dumb coach, it doesn’t matter. Attitude is always in the player’s control 100% of the time. My bad. I just assumed you were saying it was Krueger’s fault. We are on the same page then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: I agree about Botterill creating the logjam but I disagree with part of your proposed solution. Not the waive Bogo part (though I don’t think that would sit well with Eichel or anyone else). But the dumping guys like Miller for crap returns. This logjam on defense isn’t a long term issue. It’ll solve itself all on its own after this season, and suddenly we won’t have the defensive depth we do now. Dumping a good top 4 RHD like Miller for anything they can get would be short sighted. If someone offers us a top 9 forward, then sure. But to dump him just because crappy players like Bogo and ERod are upset about their playing time is letting the inmates run the asylum. You can’t let crappy depth players force you into moves that for the long term future of the team (IMO anyway). I also think desperation trades signals to other GMs that all they have to do is wait you out. IMO it makes it harder to make proper value trades in the future. It happened with Tim Murray. Also, if Botterill starts making panic trades, I will question his plan a lot more than I am now. We may not like Botterill’s timeline and patience, but at least I feel like he has a plan that he believes in. Personally, I think Botterill is targeting this offseason as the one where he can finally make bigger changes to the team. They will have a lot of cap space and a bunch of contract come off the books. It’s a lot harder to turn over a roster in the NHL vs the NFL, with all contracts being fully guaranteed and cap space at an ultra premium (especially right now with the cap staying stagnant the next couple seasons). If Botts just re-signs all the crappy players coming off the books, then I’ll be about done with him. I don’t want it to sound like I am defending Botterill. I have a lot of questions about him already, but as I said I’m willing to give him this offseason (it’s not like it’s up to me anyway...). see, here the problem with the logjam..if Miller is good, why does he sit the majority of nights? Is that not what any GM would think? And i think he can be good. My solution is to dump Bogo, waive Erod if ya want..i agree those guys have no value, so why keep them around? Maybe someone picks them up and the salary is gone..maybe not. But is it worth keeping malcontents around for late round picks? My gut says right now both Scandella and McCabe DO have some value, but no one will offer what that value is cause they know Botts HAS a glut..so waiving BOGO maybe opens up the trade market on those two..and once that is done maybe we can bring Pilut up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) So, who's crap do we need to give them time to clear out now? They traded a 2nd and 5th for Miller just a few months ago Edited January 1, 2020 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 I love listening to this guy talk. He just inspires confidence. I definitely recommend listening. Im trying to keep the faith. It’s tough at times, but I want to believe that Ralph will get this turned around. He’s done it before, and he’s done it more than once. I keep telling myself that this was never an overnight fix. IMO this Sabres gig is one of the toughest jobs in the NHL. The tank years put this team in a hole they’ve never climbed out of, and it’s created some unique problems. Like a group of mentally broken players and a lot of fan + local media pressure that builds very quickly due to the lack of patience from all the years of losing. The players have talked about it and you hear similar things from players and coaches in Cleveland (browns). As skeptical as I am of Botterill, and as impatient as I’m becoming, I still think the best course of action for now is to just stick to the plan. You simply can’t keep changing visions every 2-3 years. I look at teams like Winnipeg, Columbus. Teams that took a while to start winning after their rebuild. Eventually both teams just stuck with their GM through some tough times and it paid off. Kevin Chevldayoff was hated in Winnipeg for being too cautious and patient and building through the draft. But now they feel much differently about him, and he was a GM of the year candidate just a couple seasons ago. I don’t know that Botterill is the right guy, but I’m trying hard to hang on to some hope that he will work out. I say At least give him next season. We all know He’s maddeningly slow to make moves during the season (most of his moves seem to come in the offseason). But I think he found the right coach, and he’s done some good things. The joker trade was great. Cozens looks like legit. He’s building depth in the prospect pool. He’s totally revamped the defense and filled the pipeline at D (which was left almost bare by the previous GM). And outside of the ROR trade, he’s at least not making moves that hurt the Sabres (like some of Murray’s big risk moves). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: I agree about Botterill creating the logjam but I disagree with part of your proposed solution. Not the waive Bogo part (though I don’t think that would sit well with Eichel or anyone else). But the dumping guys like Miller for crap returns. This logjam on defense isn’t a long term issue. It’ll solve itself all on its own after this season, and suddenly we won’t have the defensive depth we do now. Dumping a good top 4 RHD like Miller for anything they can get would be short sighted. If someone offers us a top 9 forward, then sure. But to dump him just because crappy players like Bogo and ERod are upset about their playing time is letting the inmates run the asylum. You can’t let crappy depth players force you into moves that for the long term future of the team (IMO anyway). I also think desperation trades signals to other GMs that all they have to do is wait you out. IMO it makes it harder to make proper value trades in the future. It happened with Tim Murray. Also, if Botterill starts making panic trades, I will question his plan a lot more than I am now. We may not like Botterill’s timeline and patience, but at least I feel like he has a plan that he believes in. Personally, I think Botterill is targeting this offseason as the one where he can finally make bigger changes to the team. They will have a lot of cap space and a bunch of contract come off the books. It’s a lot harder to turn over a roster in the NHL vs the NFL, with all contracts being fully guaranteed and cap space at an ultra premium (especially right now with the cap staying stagnant the next couple seasons). If Botts just re-signs all the crappy players coming off the books, then I’ll be about done with him. I don’t want it to sound like I am defending Botterill. I have a lot of questions about him already, but as I said I’m willing to give him this offseason (it’s not like it’s up to me anyway...). I see it as much more of an indictment of these players than the coach. How many coaches do we need to go through before we realize that no coach is going to be successful with this group of players? It’s the same failed team as last year. But at least Krueger has them playing better hockey than housley or bylsma or any previous Sabres coach since the rebuild started. This is the most competent the Sabres have looked in a long time. They may still be losing but at least they are entertaining to watch most nights. At least we are getting a consistent effort from the players. I feel like a lot of the losses are just due to lack of talent. Like the 2 Boston games. I thought the Sabres actually outplayed Boston, but they just can’t score. They dominated the scoring chances for stretches of the game, but then they make 1 or 2 mistakes and it’s in the back of their net. I don't see it as quitting though. In fact, I feel just the opposite. I think this is the first time that these players have actually bought in to what a coach was preaching. That’s been a big issue in years past. Guys weren’t willing to stick to the coaches system. I don't think the loss had anything to do with effort or quitting on the coach. They are just mentally fragile. It seems to be improving compared to previous seasons, but it’s still an issue. I think all the losing has broken some of these players. I have actually been happy with Krueger. I don’t want him going anywhere. I want to see what he can do with more talent. That’s on the GM. What, exactly, makes you think Botterill has a plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 https://www.nhl.com/all-star-ballot Dahlin is on the “last men in” all-star ballot. Voting is open for the next few days/week. You can vote 10x per day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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