Dr. Who Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Don't know whether to laugh or cry reading the thread title. Funny in a dark, bitter way. 1
wagon127 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 I mean, really, the bills are winning at a historic pace for their franchise. And im expected to spend 3-4 nights a week watching this garbage hockey team too. One buffalo means only one good team at a time! 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 This team !! Has these great bursts that gives everyone hope, then they collapse taking us down with them. 1
plenzmd1 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Don't know whether to laugh or cry reading the thread title. haha, just saw that how about this great chart...Gilmore was our best forward last night!!!!!
4merper4mer Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 Looking back on last night now it seems even worse. Eichel showed some fire and according to Montour, it had no impact and got no response on the bench. Montour came off as a bit of a douche in his interview as he called out everyone except himself and then slyly added "including myself" almost as if he just remembered he had to say that. Maybe the team needs a bit of a douche calling them out. Eichel's interview was one in which he said all the right things and it felt like he meant it100%. The look on his face at times though was one of someone utterly defeated and hopeless. It's not a good place but it does present an opportunity. Someone, likely Pegula, needs to take him aside and tell him that he is owed more and that it will be delivered. Botterill's interview earlier in the day embodied the words clueless and pathetic in equal parts. Neither he nor anyone else is fixing this in 2019-20. He has shown no signs whatsoever that given 1000 years, that he could ever assemble a championship team. Vesey and Sheary are players he selected to man portions of lines 1 and 2. Wrap your head around that if you can. So.....if I were Pegula I would fire Botterill this morning. I'd call in Krueger and tell him we want him to stay. I'd call in Eichel and apologize for hiring Botterill to replace the disastrous Murray. I'd ask Krueger to help identify a GM target a la McD/Beane and I'd ask Eichel to be 100% frank about which players are either simply not good enough to play in the NHL or that are harming the team with attitude. The plan then would be to jettison them gradually and get something back when possible, but there would be a list and eventually not one player on it would be a Sabre. I don't view that as a complete tear down because losing players that drag down the team with inability, attitude or both is addition by subtraction. Get back what you can and add in the offseason. Lastly, someone needs to get to the bottom of why guys like ROR, Risto, and seemingly Eichel looming want out. It's epidemic and a repeating cycle. Even Montour, who just got here,was dropping hints in his interview. Why do none of these guys feel as if they can stay and be part of the solution? Actually maybe that analysis needs to be done first or at least right after Botts is cut loose. 1
Mark80 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 Botterill needs to go. This team is so outclassed talent wise. How can you possibly be so bad for so long? I miss Darcy and Lindy so much. 1
apuszczalowski Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Looking back on last night now it seems even worse. Eichel showed some fire and according to Montour, it had no impact and got no response on the bench. Montour came off as a bit of a douche in his interview as he called out everyone except himself and then slyly added "including myself" almost as if he just remembered he had to say that. Maybe the team needs a bit of a douche calling them out. Eichel's interview was one in which he said all the right things and it felt like he meant it100%. The look on his face at times though was one of someone utterly defeated and hopeless. It's not a good place but it does present an opportunity. Someone, likely Pegula, needs to take him aside and tell him that he is owed more and that it will be delivered. Botterill's interview earlier in the day embodied the words clueless and pathetic in equal parts. Neither he nor anyone else is fixing this in 2019-20. He has shown no signs whatsoever that given 1000 years, that he could ever assemble a championship team. Vesey and Sheary are players he selected to man portions of lines 1 and 2. Wrap your head around that if you can. So.....if I were Pegula I would fire Botterill this morning. I'd call in Krueger and tell him we want him to stay. I'd call in Eichel and apologize for hiring Botterill to replace the disastrous Murray. I'd ask Krueger to help identify a GM target a la McD/Beane and I'd ask Eichel to be 100% frank about which players are either simply not good enough to play in the NHL or that are harming the team with attitude. The plan then would be to jettison them gradually and get something back when possible, but there would be a list and eventually not one player on it would be a Sabre. I don't view that as a complete tear down because losing players that drag down the team with inability, attitude or both is addition by subtraction. Get back what you can and add in the offseason. Lastly, someone needs to get to the bottom of why guys like ROR, Risto, and seemingly Eichel looming want out. It's epidemic and a repeating cycle. Even Montour, who just got here,was dropping hints in his interview. Why do none of these guys feel as if they can stay and be part of the solution? Actually maybe that analysis needs to be done first or at least right after Botts is cut loose. I don't need much time to figure out why guys want out, it's because losing sucks and they don't like it, even if it means the team will have a slightly better chance to draft #1 overall. Most of these players are brought in via trade and sold by the front office that they are going to do everything to turn things around and are on the cusp of winning, only to find that they want to take their time and wait for all their prospects to develop. The Pegulas have been sold on the idea that the only way to get good is to rip the team down completely, then take years to slowly build it back up, where you can't make moves to acquire veteran talent until you are on the cusp.
shrader Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 13 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: they are out of it now. . A cumulative total of 2 points vs the 19th, 28th and 31st ranked teams in the NHL. One thing needs to be annoucned tomorrw " we have decided to relieve Jason Botteril of his duties as GM of the Buffalo Sabre's We appreciated his efforts, but we have decided to move in an new direction where the success of the Buffalo Sabre's is more important than the GM being afraid to admit mistakes. I see what you did there. The team is so incompetent that even the PR guy has no idea how to use apostrophes. 1
May Day 10 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 Im fairly certain that Botterill is a worse GM than Murray. Awful. 1
bdutton Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 I will add to the pile... Botterill needs to go.
plenzmd1 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: Im fairly certain that Botterill is a worse GM than Murray. Awful. They have yet to reach a point total above either of GMTMs seasons...and sure as poop don't look like they will do it this year without a major shakeup/trade. But as i said yesterday, his actions sure appear to those of someone who has been promised year 4 no matter how bad year 3 is... And if he crys about being near/over the cap and that limits his ability to make moves, i am going to go freaking ballistic. His because of his inactivity and dumb moves they are near the cap..his..not GMTMs!
shrader Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: They have yet to reach a point total above either of GMTMs seasons...and sure as poop don't look like they will do it this year without a major shakeup/trade. But as i said yesterday, his actions sure appear to those of someone who has been promised year 4 no matter how bad year 3 is... And if he crys about being near/over the cap and that limits his ability to make moves, i am going to go freaking ballistic. His because of his inactivity and dumb moves they are near the cap..his..not GMTMs! The cap does limit the moves significantly. That's just a fact of life. That said, there's no reason to hide behind it with every public statement. I'm not going to throw that cap jail status completely on his shoulders though. But if you want to do that, you also have to acknowledge that he also put them into the position where $20+ million of that is off the books this offseason. Once we get to the offseason, here are the remaining large contracts: Eichel (10) Skinner (9) Okposo (6) Ristolainen (5.4) There are some others, but I'll cut it off at $5 million as I don't see deals smaller than that as too much of an issue, particularly because each of them is short term. So looking at these 4 deals, the first two were signed by Boterill and the last two by Murray. I don't know about anyone else, but I see no problem with the first two, especially once they're paired back together. It really comes down to the price tag and term on that Okposo deal, which fall squarely on Murray. As much as it may scare some, Boterill's target has always been this offseason where that cap purge happens. So that's really the big difference between those two GMs, Murray made a swing for the fences at day 1 while Boterill was waiting until that future date. Neither approach is any fun, but one left no ammo for the future while the other still held onto a bullet or two. I do think there's at least a plan here, but whether or not that will actually work is another story all together. I see what they're trying, but my major concern with it is how many years they've wasted of an elite talent like Eichel and even a lesser but still very useful player in Reinhart. I also worry about how tough it is for guys like this to wash away the stench of so many years of pure garbage hockey. I'm not sure they really have much other choice, but they are definitely underestimating the damage that has done and continues to do to many of these players. 2
May Day 10 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: They have yet to reach a point total above either of GMTMs seasons...and sure as poop don't look like they will do it this year without a major shakeup/trade. But as i said yesterday, his actions sure appear to those of someone who has been promised year 4 no matter how bad year 3 is... And if he crys about being near/over the cap and that limits his ability to make moves, i am going to go freaking ballistic. His because of his inactivity and dumb moves they are near the cap..his..not GMTMs! They have a bunch of money coming off this year.... however, only 1 player leaving is a contract not signed or acquired by potato head, and that is Bogosian.... Thank heavens that Berglund guy decided to quit and lose millions
plenzmd1 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, shrader said: The cap does limit the moves significantly. That's just a fact of life. That said, there's no reason to hide behind it with every public statement. I'm not going to throw that cap jail status completely on his shoulders though. But if you want to do that, you also have to acknowledge that he also put them into the position where $20+ million of that is off the books this offseason. Once we get to the offseason, here are the remaining large contracts: Eichel (10) Skinner (9) Okposo (6) Ristolainen (5.4) There are some others, but I'll cut it off at $5 million as I don't see deals smaller than that as too much of an issue, particularly because each of them is short term. So looking at these 4 deals, the first two were signed by Boterill and the last two by Murray. I don't know about anyone else, but I see no problem with the first two, especially once they're paired back together. It really comes down to the price tag and term on that Okposo deal, which fall squarely on Murray. As much as it may scare some, Boterill's target has always been this offseason where that cap purge happens. So that's really the big difference between those two GMs, Murray made a swing for the fences at day 1 while Boterill was waiting until that future date. Neither approach is any fun, but one left no ammo for the future while the other still held onto a bullet or two. I do think there's at least a plan here, but whether or not that will actually work is another story all together. I see what they're trying, but my major concern with it is how many years they've wasted of an elite talent like Eichel and even a lesser but still very useful player in Reinhart. I also worry about how tough it is for guys like this to wash away the stench of so many years of pure garbage hockey. I'm not sure they really have much other choice, but they are definitely underestimating the damage that has done and continues to do to many of these players. but he is the guy who has kept Larry, and Girgs, and McCabe, and Scandella, and Erod, and Sobotka..that is why you have no cap room, its not the big contracts, those guys are working out! I am guessing the other guys mentioned above total a good $12-14M...thats a lot of cap room and a lot of ability to maneuver. I know i am being simplistic, but he put himself into this corner, he does not get to use it as an excuse why he cant make trades/improve the team.
4merper4mer Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, May Day 10 said: Im fairly certain that Botterill is a worse GM than Murray. Awful. I would disagree. Murray possibly actively sabotaged the team because Uncle Bwyan was mad at Lindy Ruff. He was also a gigantic douche and obnoxious and arrogant 100% of the time. Botts was saddled with Murray's mess. Yes, he has been inept in seemingly signing mainly bad players like Sheary and Vesey, and he has been a doofus with his dumb reasons for not trying usually explained in interviews from golf courses, and yes his big plan is to wait for Dylan Cozens to develop in 2025 but he is courteous and polite. That alone puts him ahead of Murray.
apuszczalowski Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 I was never a fan of Murray, thought he was a cocky pompous jerk most of the time, but I don't think he was as bad as everyone wants to make him out to be. His problem wasn't that he made moves or used resources to make them. That's what all teams and GMs do, they don't just collect their picks and prospects and wait for them all to magically develop into a juggernaut team, they use those picks and prospects to also make moves to obtain talent. Murray's problem was that he seemed to get really excited over certain players he liked and would overspend to acquire them. Robin Lehner was not a bad player to obtain (after now seeing what he can do when sober and getting help for his mental illness) but TM overspent to get him as he shouldn't have needed to spend a 1st to get him. Kane was also a good player, but knowing that the Sabres were the only team that could take him on before the deadline and let him sit the rest of the season, while giving Winnepeg something to use in their playoff push, he gave away too much to get him or should have gotten more in return with what he gave up. He seemed like a kid when it came to getting something he wanted and was willing to just give the other GM whatever they wanted to get that player. A good GM will get the guy they want, but not use up so many resources to get them. They would have used the fact that Ottawa had so many goalies, and Lehners injury history to their advantage and get him cheap. They would use Winnepegs needs for a playoff push and the fact that almost no other team could offer something to help them for a player who would play this offseason to basically steal Kane from their roster. Instead he paid market value or more to get them.
shrader Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: but he is the guy who has kept Larry, and Girgs, and McCabe, and Scandella, and Erod, and Sobotka..that is why you have no cap room, its not the big contracts, those guys are working out! I am guessing the other guys mentioned above total a good $12-14M...thats a lot of cap room and a lot of ability to maneuver. I know i am being simplistic, but he put himself into this corner, he does not get to use it as an excuse why he cant make trades/improve the team. Each of these guys would be replaced by someone making similar money. Your list combined is going to be right around the average NHL salary. Those are not the kind of deals that cause cap issues. The highest on your list is Scandella at $4 million and quite honestly I don't see him as a part of the issue right now. Oh, and I missed Bogosian earlier on the list of bigger contracts at $5.1 million. That's one that is part of the problem and again, is a Murray contract.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-calgary-flames-johnny-gaudreau-not-selling-low/ 7. Some other rumblings: This isn’t news, but the Sabres face a roster crunch. They are sitting NHL-calibre defenders every night (Colin Miller, Marco Scandella). It’s tough to make a good deal when everyone else sees the situation, and GM Jason Botterill wisely is trying to use every second he can. Zach Bogosian is close to a return, which adds cap chaos to the equation. Almost everyone else is capped out, too. It’s a delicate dance. They want a top-six forward that can help them.
JohnC Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: but he is the guy who has kept Larry, and Girgs, and McCabe, and Scandella, and Erod, and Sobotka..that is why you have no cap room, its not the big contracts, those guys are working out! I am guessing the other guys mentioned above total a good $12-14M...thats a lot of cap room and a lot of ability to maneuver. I know i am being simplistic, but he put himself into this corner, he does not get to use it as an excuse why he cant make trades/improve the team. The GM has little cap flexibility to make major changes to the roster. He put himself in this position to make more significant changes next year when a number of contracts expire. That was his intention. You may disagree with that next year timetable but that is the strategy he decided to take. This was never going to be a quick or easy process. Last year when you and others were blaming Housley for everything including globing warming the actual primary issue with this lackluster team was a lack of talent. I repeatedly made that point last year with your repeated haranguing that it was a coaching deficiency. Now that we have a better coach the issue remains that there still is a talent deficit. What's obvious is obvious! There was no magical solution this year because the plan for the hockey team, as it was for the football team, was to clear cap space in the near future and then bolster the roster. Even those who are in a state of hysteria have to acknowledge that the Sabres will be in much better cap situation to make meaningful deals next year. For all those in the clamoring chorus screaming for a GM change let me ask you how do you not know that the owner agreed to this rebuilding strategy with the GM he selected? Just as the owner agreed with the rebuilding strategy when he selected McDermott for the Bills. 2 hours ago, shrader said: The cap does limit the moves significantly. That's just a fact of life. That said, there's no reason to hide behind it with every public statement. I'm not going to throw that cap jail status completely on his shoulders though. But if you want to do that, you also have to acknowledge that he also put them into the position where $20+ million of that is off the books this offseason. Once we get to the offseason, here are the remaining large contracts: Eichel (10) Skinner (9) Okposo (6) Ristolainen (5.4) There are some others, but I'll cut it off at $5 million as I don't see deals smaller than that as too much of an issue, particularly because each of them is short term. So looking at these 4 deals, the first two were signed by Boterill and the last two by Murray. I don't know about anyone else, but I see no problem with the first two, especially once they're paired back together. It really comes down to the price tag and term on that Okposo deal, which fall squarely on Murray. As much as it may scare some, Boterill's target has always been this offseason where that cap purge happens. So that's really the big difference between those two GMs, Murray made a swing for the fences at day 1 while Boterill was waiting until that future date. Neither approach is any fun, but one left no ammo for the future while the other still held onto a bullet or two. I do think there's at least a plan here, but whether or not that will actually work is another story all together. I see what they're trying, but my major concern with it is how many years they've wasted of an elite talent like Eichel and even a lesser but still very useful player in Reinhart. I also worry about how tough it is for guys like this to wash away the stench of so many years of pure garbage hockey. I'm not sure they really have much other choice, but they are definitely underestimating the damage that has done and continues to do to many of these players. This is an excellent post and analysis. 1
Recommended Posts