Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The attached link is an article by Lance Lysowski of the Buffalo News regarding Dahlin. He discusses the learning curve for the young defenseman. 

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/17/buffalo-sabres-chicago-blackhawks-rasmus-dahlin-brandon-montour-nhl-news-2019/?view=getnewpost

Does that article say anything about how it is normal that the 2nd year is a regression?  Doubt it.

Edited November 18, 2019 by 4merper4mer

[zow2]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I'm not worried about the Captain demanding a trade. He's invested in the team that he is leading. I can see him demanding talent help. And I can see the GM bringing in talent, especially next year when many contracts expire. 

 

He should demand something.  The guy deserves to be on a playoff team, not stashed on ice in hockey Siberia.  The Sabres are taking much too long to get "good" again.  It shouldn't take this long.   They are decent this year but clearly aren't getting much secondary scoring lately and i don't care what the stats say... the goal-tending is not good enough yet.  These guys need to be stealing a game now and then.

[plenzmd1]

4 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

 I think he did a great job in rebuilding the defense this offseason with his trades to get Montour and Miller.

First, let me say i am going to very snarky in my answers here, but this team is making me crazy..so nothing personal folks but here goes

 

Uhmm, Miller has been a healthy scratch last two games based on performance...

3 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

Not recently they aren't as successful but so far this season they have played better. Its an improvement and as long as they are battling for a playoff spot all season then I will call it a successful season. Next year they will have some of the bad contracts off the books and will be able to add more. Adding Cozens next season will be a big help. 

Not quite sure where you see the improvement. 2 wins last 10. I may be wrong to do this, but certainly last season it came to fruition that the 10 game win streak was the aberration..  think about that...2 wins in the last 10. Screams last place team to me..fighting Ottawa for the top pick again if this keeps up

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Two years ago the Sabres garnered 62 pts. Last year they earned 76 pts.

And the season before Bots got here they earned 78, and the year before that 81.....so they have gone backwards. Lets not forget GMTM and Disco Dan got fired for under performing.

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

I do get what you mean but judging by a lot of the comments in this thread a lot of you expect Botts to make magically make guys like Sobotka and Okposo disappear. 

https://eyesonisles.com/2019/11/14/islanders-place-andrew-ladd-waivers/

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/1282479/cory-schneider

 

Why is this so hard? Waive the laggards, eat the cap, get younger players with potential. Did with Matty Mo, why cant it be done with these guys?

 

And someone please tell what cap room does for this team next year?  They get to overpay for middling talent?

Edited November 18, 2019 by plenzmd1

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Two years ago the Sabres garnered 62 pts. Last year they earned 76 pts. This year my guess is that they should earn around 88 pts. and stay in the playoff race till the end of the season. As JRB1979 noted the organization will have a number of expiring contracts entering next season which should allow for some higher yield talent to be added to the roster.

 

Some alarmists act as if the organization is in a state of disarray and is spiraling toward a catastrophe. That is far from what is actually happening.  If you stand back and take a broader perspective where this franchise was and is currently at and where it is heading the outlook is more positive than many people are portraying. 

 

I understand why some people are frustrated to the point that they are arguing to blow up the roster. That would be an act of self-immolation. My stance remains to stay the course and make smart deals when it will benefit you. It's not an easy process to undergo but there is no other way.   

Not disarray.......apathy.

Not spiraling toward a catastrophe.  Already a catastrophe for a decade.

 

Where is the franchise heading?  Botts has done zero to add scoring and people are painting Cozens as the solution.  Come on.  He is an 18 year kid who projects well.  Waiting two+ years for him to be NHL ready so we can maybe have a second line capable of scoring a goal a month is not a strategy.

 

Blow up the roster?  Who knows?  Give enough of a crap to actually improve it?  Yes.  Botts has proven he is not the man for that job.  The games are not even watchable many nights.  

 

You say this team will "compete for a playoff spot" this year.  Where will the scoring necessary for that come from?  Mittlestadt?  If Eichel got hurt the Sabres would instantly, once again, be the worst team in the league.  There is simply no excuse for that in the fifth year of his career. Yes, a lot of it is on Murray and at least Botts isn't a jerk, but he has been God awful at his job.

 

IYHO what makes Eichel immune from wanting out?  ROR wanted out.  Risto wants out.  Human nature is to try hard but the NHL is NASCAR and Botts keeps surrounding Eichel with VW vans from the Woodstck era.  That will eventually wear on even the strongest convictions.  The Sabres need to seek out a high end GM with recognized credibility.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-okposo-has-suffered-another-concussion

 

Okposo has another concussion. Really hope he is ok. It has to be pretty scary for him. I’m sure there’s some PTSD from what happened last time. 

 

I didn’t think it was even that bad of a collision. Either it was worse than I realize or he is just more easily concussed now from past injuries. 

 

The article also also mentions Tage Thompson is out 3-5 weeks with an upper body injury. 

 

Mojo and Larsson are still day to day.

 

and just like that, any shred of forward depth the Sabres has is gone... who do they even call up?

 

 

Yikes! 

I say bring up big Brett Murray. We need net front presence and he’s the poster boy for that. Don’t care if he’s “ready” or not. Given the injuries here and in Rochester, this is an emergency.

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I say bring up big Brett Murray. We need net front presence and he’s the poster boy for that. Don’t care if he’s “ready” or not. Given the injuries here and in Rochester, this is an emergency.

wonder if/when you can LTIR a guy with a concussion? I really hope for Kyle's sake that is a considered option, i worry about his health way more than I worry about the record. He is in that same place Aaron Williams was for me...man i was so happy when he decided to call it quits, as i will be for Kyle

[stony]

13 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Not disarray.......apathy.

Not spiraling toward a catastrophe.  Already a catastrophe for a decade.

 

Where is the franchise heading?  Botts has done zero to add scoring and people are painting Cozens as the solution.  Come on.  He is an 18 year kid who projects well.  Waiting two+ years for him to be NHL ready so we can maybe have a second line capable of scoring a goal a month is not a strategy.

 

Blow up the roster?  Who knows?  Give enough of a crap to actually improve it?  Yes.  Botts has proven he is not the man for that job.  The games are not even watchable many nights.  

 

You say this team will "compete for a playoff spot" this year.  Where will the scoring necessary for that come from?  Mittlestadt?  If Eichel got hurt the Sabres would instantly, once again, be the worst team in the league.  There is simply no excuse for that in the fifth year of his career. Yes, a lot of it is on Murray and at least Botts isn't a jerk, but he has been God awful at his job.

 

IYHO what makes Eichel immune from wanting out?  ROR wanted out.  Risto wants out.  Human nature is to try hard but the NHL is NASCAR and Botts keeps surrounding Eichel with VW vans from the Woodstck era.  That will eventually wear on even the strongest convictions.  The Sabres need to seek out a high end GM with recognized credibility.

Casey Mittlestadt looks broken.  The organizational handling of him has been less than optimal.  

Edited November 18, 2019 by stony

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

wonder if/when you can LTIR a guy with a concussion? I really hope for Kyle's sake that is a considered option, i worry about his health way more than I worry about the record. He is in that same place Aaron Williams was for me...man i was so happy when he decided to call it quits, as i will be for Kyle

He needs to retire, simple as that. He’s got two young kids, all the money he needs, and he’s still young enough to enjoy it all. For crissakes, he almost died a couple years ago because of complications arising from treatment of a concussion. 
 

I have no idea about concussions and LTIR ramifications. Seems you should be able to do that, especially with his recent history.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...baffling how this club is bi-polar......comes out hot as hell, taking the league by storm only to go quickly "Arctic".....the onset of "scoring anemia" is astonishing.....

[plenzmd1]

So big story in The Athletic Johnny Hockey May  need to be traded. Anyone think we got the ammo to get that done?

 

Two more years after this year left at $6.75. 

Risto +Sammy make sense? 

 

I must admit i don’t know the Flames well, no idea if they need D help. 

 

Any ideas out there?

[4merper4mer]

50 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

So big story in The Athletic Johnny Hockey May  need to be traded. Anyone think we got the ammo to get that done?

 

Two more years after this year left at $6.75. 

Risto +Sammy make sense? 

 

I must admit i don’t know the Flames well, no idea if they need D help. 

 

Any ideas out there?

 

Be patient.  Cozens should be ready by 2025-26.  Plus, the indoor golf machine at Dave and Buster's is really cool but there isn't a good signal while you're in there.

[shrader]

17 hours ago, K-9 said:

I say bring up big Brett Murray. We need net front presence and he’s the poster boy for that. Don’t care if he’s “ready” or not. Given the injuries here and in Rochester, this is an emergency.

 

He doesn't have a contract.  He's only on an AHL deal.  Honestly, I'm not so sure he'd want to sign one right now.  They lose his draft rights in June and he may like the thought of being able to sign anywhere, even though it will just be an ELC.

 

17 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

wonder if/when you can LTIR a guy with a concussion? I really hope for Kyle's sake that is a considered option, i worry about his health way more than I worry about the record. He is in that same place Aaron Williams was for me...man i was so happy when he decided to call it quits, as i will be for Kyle

 

The rule for LTIR is that they have to be expected to be out for a minimum of 10 games or 24 days.  Can you reach that expectation from a concussion, particularly the repeated type with a guy like him?  I don't know.  They're going to have to do something once Bogosian is cleared though.  They'll be over the cap at that point thanks to all the callups the currently have.  The easy solution is probably LTIR for Sobotka.  I forget what his status is, but it did sound like it was one of those month+ deals.  LTIR is retroactive to the date of the injury, so the time he's already missed would be included in that 10/24 minimum.

 

Retirement would be a different story.  His cap hit is gone in that scenario.  There would be some cap recapture penalty though.

[Greybeard]

7 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

He doesn't have a contract.  He's only on an AHL deal.  Honestly, I'm not so sure he'd want to sign one right now.  They lose his draft rights in June and he may like the thought of being able to sign anywhere, even though it will just be an ELC.

 

 

The rule for LTIR is that they have to be expected to be out for a minimum of 10 games or 24 days.  Can you reach that expectation from a concussion, particularly the repeated type with a guy like him?  I don't know.  They're going to have to do something once Bogosian is cleared though.  They'll be over the cap at that point thanks to all the callups the currently have.  The easy solution is probably LTIR for Sobotka.  I forget what his status is, but it did sound like it was one of those month+ deals.  LTIR is retroactive to the date of the injury, so the time he's already missed would be included in that 10/24 minimum.

 

Retirement would be a different story.  His cap hit is gone in that scenario.  There would be some cap recapture penalty though.

         Sadly, they are probably going to just ride out this year as best they can.   Being against the cap makes decent trades hard.   Okposo should really consider retirement but if he doesn't, they should buy him out.  That is probably what keeps him going.

         They can loose a majority of this roster if they choose to not resign players for next year.  I might think the reluctance in bringing up Cozens is it might affect him long term and I believe he might then qualify for the expansion draft.

 

         If you haven't been to this site before, it really does a good job.  

        https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sabres

[JohnC]

This is a 9 min. link of Paul Hamilton on WGR talking about the Sabres. The second half of the interview deals with Dahlin and his struggles. Some people act as if it is a surprise that young players, even premier talents like Dahlin,  sometimes struggle in the early stages of their career. It's part of the learning process that is unavoidable.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/11-19-paul-hamilton-howard-and-jeremy-0

[plenzmd1]

Great podcast by Die By the Blade Crew today. 

 

https://tinyurl.com/r94n8fw

 

In short, these guys sound like me and @4merper4mer, and will make @JohnC head explode. Just the first 15 minutes are great.

 

Major Points

1) Essentially same freaking team Botts inherited, sub out ROR and a lucky ass pull of Dahlin. And he is expecting different results

2)9 freaking D men, and 9 freaking Forwards..criminal

3) At worst, 2nd best LHD in the organiztion is rotting away in Rochester while Rome burns cause no room up in the NHL.(.and they emphasize this is a 24 year old player, not 18)

4) Rochester contributions being made by vets, prospect group no better than what he inherited from GMTM( i think Joki has been a great pickup, they do not mention him)

5) Not one player really outplaying their contract..

6) Why would you trust this guy to keep making moves....

7) Inactivity has to be because he is promised 20-21

? Risto value just keeps decreasing..same minutes, taken of PP1...

9) Looks like D are so focused on D, taking awy the offensive abilities of guys like Dahlin and Joki

[4merper4mer]

38 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This is a 9 min. link of Paul Hamilton on WGR talking about the Sabres. The second half of the interview deals with Dahlin and his struggles. Some people act as if it is a surprise that young players, even premier talents like Dahlin,  sometimes struggle in the early stages of their career. It's part of the learning process that is unavoidable.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/11-19-paul-hamilton-howard-and-jeremy-0

You should progress from year 1 to year 2, not regress.  If he had more struggles in 18-19 and was making some progress in 19-20 looking like his current self, it is one thing.  Going backwards is the hallmark of poor leadership.

 

 I get that regression happens.  See: Levi Wallace.  But nobody ever claimed Wallace was the best prospect in a generation.

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

You should progress from year 1 to year 2, not regress.  If he had more struggles in 18-19 and was making some progress in 19-20 looking like his current self, it is one thing.  Going backwards is the hallmark of poor leadership.

 

 I get that regression happens.  See: Levi Wallace.  But nobody ever claimed Wallace was the best prospect in a generation.

Yeah but you would think if any human would know how to handle and coach a phenom teenage D man, it would be Phil Housley.  

 

Yes?  I am also a huge fan of Steve Smith going back to his playing days but I don't really know if he is a good coach or not. 

 

He's certainly been around a lot of elite talent and done a lot of winning.

 

It still doesn't bode well that Dahlin does seem to be regressing.  Will he be "ruined" by the Sabres?  Is that even real?  Are players ruined at all?  Is this a temporary setback?

 

One thing I notice is that Dahlin is a long, long way away from growing into his man's body.  He is an acne faced child at this point playing against big, fast, strong men.

 

The little tricks Dahlin has learned to excel at lower levels, all his life, don't work at this level, for the most part.

 

He needs to get bigger, stronger, faster, and that takes time.

 

Look at Eichel!  He has been around now for a while.  In his 5th year.  He has still not reached anything close to his ceiling and he gets more comfortable at this level all the time.

 

I have always said from Day 1 not to look for Dahlin to impress until his 4th year.  

He was drafted as a baby, don't forget.

 

 

 

 

[plenzmd1]

man, i know everyone is saying things are different under Ralph, but this is hard to keep reading stuff like this. Dont care how much cap room you have if this is the reputation around the league on " the culture" of the Sabres. 

 

Quote

You heard Ryan O’Reilly say it and I know (the Sabres) didn’t like what he said, but he couldn’t have put it better. I could say the exact same thing

Quote

That’s what O’Reilly essentially said before he was traded to the St. Louis Blues in the summer of 2018 and Beaulieu echoes those sentiments.

“You really question a lot of things,” said Beaulieu. “I know we have such an amazing life, but if you don’t enjoy it, it’s not all it’s (cracked) up to be because it gets tough and there are some dark days.

“All the money (in the world) couldn’t save it. Mentally, it was so degrading.”

From a article in The Athletic

https://theathletic.com/1389684/2019/11/19/making-up-for-lost-time-how-joining-the-jets-helped-nathan-beaulieu-put-his-disappointment-behind/

 

Think this is a huge reason why guys like Risto, Girgs, Larry, and McCabe have to go...nothing against them, but all they have done is lose here. 

[snafu]

On 11/18/2019 at 2:48 PM, BillsFan4 said:

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-okposo-has-suffered-another-concussion

 

Okposo has another concussion. Really hope he is ok. It has to be pretty scary for him. I’m sure there’s some PTSD from what happened last time. 

 

I didn’t think it was even that bad of a collision. Either it was worse than I realize or he is just more easily concussed now from past injuries. 

 

The article also also mentions Tage Thompson is out 3-5 weeks with an upper body injury. 

 

Mojo and Larsson are still day to day.

 

and just like that, any shred of forward depth the Sabres has is gone... who do they even call up?

 

 

Yikes! 

 

 

Move Montour to wing.  He practically plays there already.

 

 

[plenzmd1]

Holy poop, Sabres are +210 , on home ice, to the team in FREAKING LAST PLACE IN THE NHL!!!

 

yes, i am hate betting them tonight , that's just too damn juicy!!!

 

Lets go Sabres!!!!