How much should height be a factor in which WR's to make the final roster?

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This is pretty much it.

 

It's nice if you have one guy who can jump and catch a fade, but some shorter guys do that well with body positioning and blocking out. You don't absolutely need even one tall guy, but it doesn't hurt to have guys with a variety of talents and abilities.

 

Ultimately, we’d all love a 6’4 guy that’s 4.4 speed, agile, explosive and soft hands.

 

But if choosing between a mediocre receiver that is decent at jump balls or a relatively complete guy that’s 5’10, give me the better talent even if we have a few others like him. Odds are if we trot 3-4 of the undersized talented guys out there at least 1-2 will have a matchup advantage against a less agile CB that would otherwise be on benjamin

[Thurman#1]

54 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Ultimately, we’d all love a 6’4 guy that’s 4.4 speed, agile, explosive and soft hands.

 

But if choosing between a mediocre receiver that is decent at jump balls or a relatively complete guy that’s 5’10, give me the better talent even if we have a few others like him. Odds are if we trot 3-4 of the undersized talented guys out there at least 1-2 will have a matchup advantage against a less agile CB that would otherwise be on benjamin

 

 

Agreed, and strongly.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Catch radius is not to be underestimated with Josh. The easy answer is just keep the most talented but size and catch radius could give a player or two an edge over another fairly equally talented WR. 

Create separation in any way is most important. Straight line speed, quickness, route running, and get off the line moves are all ways to get separation. 

But they must have good hands. Allen throws a hot and inaccurate ball more times than is ideal. The coaching staff has to prioritize catching the ball and that is a combination of catch radius and hands. Sadly Zay, so far, has not shown the ability to catch the ball and despite his size and reasonably decent ability to get open( i think due to decent route skills more than anything) he will not make the team if he doesn't improve his ability to catch the ball.

[GunnerBill]

On 5/4/2019 at 3:58 PM, Bangarang said:

You keep whoever gets open and catches the ball.

 

Yep. This. This. And only this. 

 

We fixate as fans, especially Bills fans about big guy v small guy v speed guy. Just keep the guy who gets open and catches the best. 

[ProcessTruster]

On 5/4/2019 at 10:56 AM, tomur67 said:

Right now we have 4 wr's in the range of 5' 8-5'9".   Beasley is 5'8", Bolden 5'8", McKenzie 5'8", McCloud 5'9". 

5 wr's in the range of 5'11" - 6'0".   Brown is 5'11", Roberts 5'11", Easley 5'11", Phillips 6;0", Scott 6'0"

4 wr's in the range of 6'2" -6'4".   Foster is 6'2", Jones 6'2". Williams 6'3",  Sills 6'4"

Obviously, talent, motivation, etc. are the most important considerations ,  but can you keep 3 or 4 of the 5'8" on the roster?

you can pencil in Beasley, Brown, Foster and Roberts (ST) right now.  the rest fight for PS , one or two stick.   I doubt McKenzie sticks with Andre Roberts there, McCloud is gone as well for same reason.    My guess is Jones sticks, and one of the others (Williams?)  .  I only see 6 WRs max.  at least 3 TEs stick. 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by ProcessTruster

[purple haze]

On 5/4/2019 at 8:38 AM, JustWinPlease said:

I'll always take the biggest and fastest guys.

I'd rather have 5 Robert Fosters, than 5 Cole Beasleys.

I think it comes down to Foster, Jones, Brown, Beasley, Williams, Sills and McKenzie.

(The fact that Andre Roberts will probably take a WR spot and never play WR is really annoying...that takes a spot from someone more talented.)

Andre Roberts isn't really taking a spot from a WR though.  He's there for special teams, like Taiwan Jones was there for special teams.  But the

league mandates that everyone has to have a position.  It's not like if Andre Roberts was gone they would keep a different WR necessarily.  The

Bills will probably keep 6 "WR's".  In reality they are keeping 5 like most teams do.  Roberts is a ST's guy.  That 5th WR will also probably play 

special teams.

[Just Joshin']

On 5/4/2019 at 10:58 AM, Bangarang said:

You keep whoever gets open and catches the ball.

Exactly - select based on talent and production, not height.  I suspect with six positions there will be some natural distribution.

 

The TEs will also be taller so the population needs to include all positions.

[richardb1952]

It will be interesting to see what Dabol can do with all his new toys.

[elijah]

For the main core of receivers, I don’t think height will matter as much as talent does — and it shouldn’t. 

 

However, after we get our main core together on the roster, which I believe will be Beasley, Brown, Zay, Foster and Roberts (return purposes) you have to take into account that those receivers don’t have much height. 

 

Between those 5, none are taller than 6’2 and I think this will give Duke and David Sills an advantage to be the final receiver making the roster over the shorter Isaiah McKenzie and Ray-Ray McCloud III. 

[LSHMEAB]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t know that’s a low percentage play. If you look at the TD totals last year Antonio Brown, Davante Adams and Tyreke Hill were the top 3 WRs. All of them are separation guys.

Agreed. The back of the EZ high point TD is more of an idea than a reality. Most passing TD's in the NFL circa 2019 are the result of OL protection, QB awareness, and a receiver creating QUICK separation in tight space. So many things have to go right on the jump ball corner EZ fade. A personal pet peeve is when a team goes to this well on a 2 point conversion. You GOTTA have something better than that on a one and done play.

[TigerJ]

On 5/4/2019 at 10:59 AM, whatdrought said:

 

Yes, this. But I think you do need to look at a diversity of skills. If there’s someone who can consistently win jump balls, you might value that over two smaller guys who have similar play styles

Agreed.  You keep Beasley because he's a solid slot receiver with the ability to gain short area separation.  You keep John Brown because he combines speed and route running and he can catch the ball.  You don't want to keep a receiver just because he's big, but having some size in your receiver group can be really helpful under certain circumstances.  If it comes down to Dukie Williams or Isaiah McKenzie for the last roster spot and McDermott thinks their value, irrespective of size is similar, but there is no other size receivers in the group, he's got to give serious consideration to Duke Williams because he will want at least one receiver who can "out physical" a big defensive back in a fight for a 50/50 ball when the game is on the line.  If neither Duke Williams or David Sills has what it takes to play receiver in the NFL, then you can't keep either one, but the team is going to feel the lack of a big physical receiver.

[LABILLBACKER]

McKenzie & McCloud aren't making this team. As others have said just be able to catch balls from Josh. Give him a wide catch radius. Your height is irrelevant. May the best 6 win....

[Mat68]

23 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

McKenzie & McCloud aren't making this team. As others have said just be able to catch balls from Josh. Give him a wide catch radius. Your height is irrelevant. May the best 6 win....

I could see 1 or the other playing primary back up to Beasley.  I think McKenzie did everything they thought Mccloud would do.  Having a vetran slot guy might help one of them become better in that area.  In terms of size?  New England won all their super bowls with smallish wrs as the best wr.  Troy Brown, Deon Branch, Juliann Edelman.  Overall, I think Zay is getting the most heat but can do the most of any of the wrs.  The group is significantly upgraded than this time last year.  The opening day last year Benjamin, Holmes, and Kerly may have been the slowest group of Wrs in a decade.  Foster, Jones, Beasley and Brown is a pretty solid group.  Jones and Beasley in the short to intermediate with Brown and Foster intermediate to deep.  Alot of Allen's runs were the result of 0 man with no reliable wr to get quick seperation or make a contested Catch.  Beasley was brought in for this precise reason.  Get Allen a guy who can get seperation under 7 yards.  The whip route with Allen's velocity will be unstoppable if they get in sync.  The contested catch guy could be where D Williams comes in but I have doubts, I think they hope one of the TEs can be that guy.

[NoSaint]

I’d be curious the analysis of how strong of a playcall that back corner fade is and how big a difference 5’11 vs 6’2 is when calling it. I suspect that it’s not as high quality a play as various play action and rub route type options and that the actual height only effects a very small number of incredibly tight throws.

 

the other dynamic the last 30 years is how dynamic tight ends have become as big bodied WRs if dying to have that option in a pinch 

 

i could be wrong but my gut is that it’s a spot that’s gotten a little mythical in its reputation 

Edited May 6, 2019 by NoSaint

[Mat68]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’d be curious the analysis of how strong of a playcall that back corner fade is and how big a difference 5’11 vs 6’2 is when calling it. I suspect that it’s not as high quality a play as various play action and rub route type options and that the actual height only effects a very small number of incredibly tight throws.

 

the other dynamic the last 30 years is how dynamic tight ends have become as big bodied WRs if dying to have that option in a pinch 

 

i could be wrong but my gut is that it’s a spot that’s gotten a little mythical in its reputation 

Antonio Brown and OBJ are pretty good at it.  They are 5"11.  The fade and back shoulder fade are on the Qb as much as a Wr. 

[Saxum]

11 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

you can pencil in Beasley, Brown, Foster and Roberts (ST) right now.  the rest fight for PS , one or two stick.   I doubt McKenzie sticks with Andre Roberts there, McCloud is gone as well for same reason.    My guess is Jones sticks, and one of the others (Williams?)  .  I only see 6 WRs max.  at least 3 TEs stick. 

 

 

McKenzie  was used on more than Special Teams and his chance is showing he has decreased fumbling, is more useful player for those type of plays and has value to new ST coach.

[tomur67]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:52 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

13 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Antonio Brown and OBJ are pretty good at it.  They are 5"11.  The fade and back shoulder fade are on the Qb as much as a Wr. 

 

Unfortunately, when you don't have receivers with the talent of Antonio Brown and OBJ or a few others,  I think you can benefit by having  a couple of 6 foot plus receivers with a height advantage over the DB's trying to cover them.

[Mat68]

9 minutes ago, tomur67 said:

Unfortunately, when you don't have receivers with the talent of Antonio Brown and OBJ or a few others,  I think you can benefit by having  a couple of 6 foot plus receivers with a height advantage over the DB's trying to cover them.

Benjamin and Holmes prove height is meaningless.  Skill and talent are the most important parts.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Yes, height, speed, power and agility all define where and how you might expect them to win on their route.  Short guys on the boundary or near the back of the end zone just do not offer the same strike zone that the taller guys do.  Different body types to win different kinds of matchups.  Just because Holmes and Benjamin could not secure the balls they got their hands on does not mean that their size was meaningless, imo.  It meant that they couldn't finish the job they were here to do.  Full disclosure, I liked Hakeem Butler (or Boykin or Hurd) for this offense.  Rats.

[BobbyC81]

On 5/4/2019 at 12:05 PM, Phil The Thrill said:

 

You make a very good point here.  I remember Brandon Beane talking about how they look at WR in camp last year.  He said the goal is to have a group that compliments themselves and that you don’t want to have the same types of WR on your roster.

 

It really make you wonder if the bigger WR’s on the roster like Williams or Sills might have an advantage over a position group that already has a few smaller receivers  

 

I would agree.  I remember last year everyone assumed that the Bills would keep 6, and sure enough they kept 5 on opening day.  I can’t see them keeping 6 WR’s on the roster and some tough cuts will need to be made

 

How did they come up with the 53 player rosters anyways?  And only 47 dress?  It’s a violent sport with many injuries; why such restrictions?

 

With 11 starters each on offense and defense for 22 total, basically teams are allowed 1 backup for every position.  Since most teams have the 3 specialists of kicker, punter and long-snapper, there’s your 47.