Inigo Montoya Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Buffalo Bills Penalties By Year; 2014 Doug Marrone; 124 penalties, 31st in league 1031 yards, 28th in league 2015 Rex Ryan; 143 penalties 32nd in league 1249 yards, 32nd in league 2016 Rex Ryan; 111 penalties 23rd in league 995 yards, 21st in league 2017 McDermott; 98 penalties 10th in league 872 yards, 9th in league --- PLAYOFFS 2018 McDermott; 116 penalties 27th in league 992 yards, 28th in league We obviously took a big step backwards from 2017 to 2018 in penalties. You can't blame our poor 2018 season on an increase in penalties alone, but it certainly was a significant part of it. How many of Allen's big passes down field for a first down got called back due to penalties? At times last season it seemed like every other big play Allen had got nullified by a penalty. I don't think it was possible for the Bills to punt or kick off, or receive a punt or kick off last year without a penalty flag flying. I think it's fair to blame part of the team's penalty regression on a young roster of less skillful players who got caught out of position and were forced to interfere or hold trying to make a play, but some of it is also due to a lack of player discipline. Below are the "discipline" penalty totals broken down by type. The totals below are for Roughing the Passer, Personal Fouls, Unnecessary Roughness, and Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties on the Bills. 2014 10 2015 12 2016 11 2017 6 --- PLAYOFFS 2018 9 The totals below are for pre-snap infractions, Offside and False Start penalties on the Bills. 2014 26 2015 22 2016 12 2017 13 --- PLAYOFFS 2018 26 We're not a good enough football team yet to be able to give away yards and downs to the opposition and not have it cost us in the win-loss column. If we can get back to playing disciplined football that could make the difference between getting into the playoffs this year or watching from the sidelines again. Playing clean football is a trait of well coached, disciplined, and ultimately successful teams. McDermott and his staff need to reverse this trend and get back to playing tough, physical, but smart football this season. Edited April 30, 2019 by Inigo Montoya 1 1
Chandler#81 Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 I’ve been screaming this since January. Culture/Process/Leadership/Discipline are hammered and repeated every day by Sean. Yet we’re the antithesis of this on the field. Penalties gave away a couple games last year and put a serious dent in Josh Allen’s season stats. It wasn’t even that we weren’t good or talented enough to overcome them. I don’t think any team could. The worst byproduct of this undisciplined play is every referee team who has a Buffalo game coming next week is schooled on how error-filled we are. They expect it likely to the point of spending extra time in the days leading up to the game practicing throwing their hanky. Fair or not, this is on coaching. Implement an escalating fine system. Bench a starter for a half. Have refs at every single practice. Change your ‘Process’ Sean. With more turnovers and fewer penalties, that half-talented team threatens the playoffs last year. 3 2
Boatdrinks Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Lack of talent (2018 Bills)often leads to penalties. Especially on the O line, where guys hold when they are getting physically overwhelmed , or false start trying to get into their pass set a split second too fast. I’d expect better line play this year, and less of those types of penalties. I often hear folks say penalties are on the coaching, but ex players ( such as Steve Tasker) will say it’s on the players. I’d tend to agree with Tasker there. Players are out on the field, not the coach. Edited April 30, 2019 by Boatdrinks 8
GunnerBill Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said: Buffalo Bills Penalties By Year; 2014 Doug Marrone; 124 penalties, 31st in league 1031 yards, 28th in league 2015 Rex Ryan; 143 penalties 32nd in league 1249 yards, 32nd in league 2016 Rex Ryan; 111 penalties 23rd in league 995 yards, 21st in league 2017 McDermott; 98 penalties 10th in league 872 yards, 9th in league --- PLAYOFFS 2018 McDermott; 116 penalties 27th in league 992 yards, 28th in league We obviously took a big step backwards from 2017 to 2018 in penalties. You can't blame our poor 2018 season on an increase in penalties alone, but it certainly was a significant part of it. How many of Allen's big passes down field for a first down got called back due to penalties? At times last season it seemed like every other big play Allen had got nullified by a penalty. I don't think it was possible for the Bills to punt or kick off, or receive a punt or kick off last year without a penalty flag flying. I think it's fair to blame part of the team's penalty regression on a young roster of less skillful players who got caught out of position and were forced to interfere or hold trying to make a play, but some of it is also due to a lack of player discipline. Below are the "discipline" penalty totals broken down by type. The totals below are for Roughing the Passer, Personal Fouls, Unnecessary Roughness, and Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties on the Bills. 2014 10 2015 12 2016 11 2017 6 --- PLAYOFFS 2018 9 The totals below are for pre-snap infractions, Offside and False Start penalties on the Bills. 2014 26 2015 22 2016 12 2017 13 --- PLAYOFFS 2018 26 We're not a good enough football team yet to be able to give away yards and downs to the opposition and not have it cost us in the win / loss column. If we can get back to playing disciplined football that could make the difference between getting into the playoffs this year or watching from the sidelines again. Playing clean football is a trait of well coached, disciplined, and ultimately successful teams. McDermott and his staff need to reverse this trend and get back to playing tough, physical, but smart football this season. The 2018 penalty issue was simple - lack of talent. Guys who couldn't line up right had shoddy technique and panicked when beaten. 3
macaroni Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 On the bright side …. the Bills haven't committed a penalty in months 3 8 1
CSBill Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, macaroni said: On the bright side …. the Bills haven't committed a penalty in months I was thinking I missed something when I saw the thread title, let's at least wait until Rookie Mini-Camp is over to start talking game analysis.
H2o Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 If you look at the overall totals, we were penalized double the amount on the road than we were at home. The Jacksonville game also has to be taken into account because that was just a brawl. The Minnesota, Houston, Jacksonville, and first Miami game accounted for 50 of our total 116 penalties. That's almost half of the total in a quarter of the season. We were one Charles Clay drop and a Josh Allen injury away from being 4-0 in those games as Nate "Petermanned" the game in Houston. With that being said I agree with Gunner's take as well. 1
cage Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 Good analysis and topic! Undisciplined play is a huge indicator of wins/losses. Another nuance to the game that they need to take care of to get back on the positive side of a season's record. 1
Patrick Duffy Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 I think it's a mixture of lack of talent, undisciplined, and poor officiating at times as well.
eball Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 I expect the pre-snap penalties on offense to diminish significantly with Josh in his second year in the system, a potential all-pro at C, along with proven vets (Brown/Beasley) at WR. 1
formerlyofCtown Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: Buffalo Bills Penalties By Year; 2014 Doug Marrone; 124 penalties, 31st in league 1031 yards, 28th in league 2015 Rex Ryan; 143 penalties 32nd in league 1249 yards, 32nd in league 2016 Rex Ryan; 111 penalties 23rd in league 995 yards, 21st in league 2017 McDermott; 98 penalties 10th in league 872 yards, 9th in league --- PLAYOFFS 2018 McDermott; 116 penalties 27th in league 992 yards, 28th in league We obviously took a big step backwards from 2017 to 2018 in penalties. You can't blame our poor 2018 season on an increase in penalties alone, but it certainly was a significant part of it. How many of Allen's big passes down field for a first down got called back due to penalties? At times last season it seemed like every other big play Allen had got nullified by a penalty. I don't think it was possible for the Bills to punt or kick off, or receive a punt or kick off last year without a penalty flag flying. I think it's fair to blame part of the team's penalty regression on a young roster of less skillful players who got caught out of position and were forced to interfere or hold trying to make a play, but some of it is also due to a lack of player discipline. Below are the "discipline" penalty totals broken down by type. The totals below are for Roughing the Passer, Personal Fouls, Unnecessary Roughness, and Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties on the Bills. 2014 10 2015 12 2016 11 2017 6 --- PLAYOFFS 2018 9 The totals below are for pre-snap infractions, Offside and False Start penalties on the Bills. 2014 26 2015 22 2016 12 2017 13 --- PLAYOFFS 2018 26 We're not a good enough football team yet to be able to give away yards and downs to the opposition and not have it cost us in the win-loss column. If we can get back to playing disciplined football that could make the difference between getting into the playoffs this year or watching from the sidelines again. Playing clean football is a trait of well coached, disciplined, and ultimately successful teams. McDermott and his staff need to reverse this trend and get back to playing tough, physical, but smart football this season. Might be a reason there were many changes to the coaching staff.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 So what were the league averages those same years? Were they up? Maybe there were more penalties called last season overall, don't know. Without knowing that part, no idea if this is really getting worse or not or is it a league trend, just caused by tighter/more calls. Having said that I'll also agree with many other who blame it on lack of talent and also player churn, i.e. inexperience, tweaking the lineup, etc. All the pre-snap penalties can be attributed to new QB and many new/different lineman.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) I have the simple answer The Refs SUCK So many new rules / tweaks that even the Refs don't understand and it seems neither do the people in the booth or Referee Central (wherever that is) Edited April 30, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan
NewEra Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 3 hours ago, macaroni said: On the bright side …. the Bills haven't committed a penalty in months This right here is part of the problem! Everything is a joke around here. Always trying to have fun. Be serious for once! Until we get serious, Pena lites will be our downfall
Patrick Duffy Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: I have the simple answer The Refs SUCK So many new rules / tweaks that even the Refs don't understand and it seems neither do the people in the booth or Referee Central (wherever that is) The same as I said earlier, have definitely seen some flags thrown many of time when they shouldn't have. In any event it's a mixture of a little bit of all of it though. 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: This right here is part of the problem! Everything is a joke around here. Always trying to have fun. Be serious for once! Until we get serious, Pena lites will be our downfall Lol, we as fans need to get serious so the penalties will decrease. I see what you did there....... 1
The Wiz Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Lack of talent (2018 Bills)often leads to penalties. Especially on the O line, where guys hold when they are getting physically overwhelmed , or false start trying to get into their pass set a split second too fast. I’d expect better line play this year, and less of those types of penalties. I often hear folks say penalties are on the coaching, but ex players ( such as Steve Tasker) will say it’s on the players. I’d tend to agree with Tasker there. Players are out on the field, not the coach. My first thought as well so I wanted to take a deeper look. Here is what I found. http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/buffalo-bills?year=2018&view=position Totals 116 992 52 64 13 8 Offensive Line 38 295 18 20 7 1 Defensive Back 19 278 7 12 3 2 Defensive Line 13 80 5 8 1 2 Tight End 11 89 4 7 0 0 Unknown/Unset 11 46 4 7 0 0 Wide Receiver 10 93 4 6 2 1 Linebacker 8 61 4 4 0 1 Quarterback 3 25 3 0 0 0 Runningback 3 25 3 0 0 1 I took the "Unknown" and split them between offense and defense and that give 70/116 penalties on the offense (38) on the offensive line alone. Dawkins had the most per player at 11. EDIT: Here is the breakdown for the "unknown/Unnamed" players. Unnamed 11 0.688 46 2.875 0 0 8 Illegal Formation (4), Defensive Too Many Men on Field (3), Delay of Game (3), Illegal Shift (1) So of those penalties it looks like the breakdown is 8 on offense and 3 on defense which makes the total 73/116 on offense. Although those penalties could be on ST so it might be better to leave them out other than the 3 listed as defense. Edited April 30, 2019 by The Wiz
Bray Wyatt Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: The 2018 penalty issue was simple - lack of talent. Guys who couldn't line up right had shoddy technique and panicked when beaten. Was about to post the same thing!
hemma Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 Dawkins, Mills, Teller, Miller and Ducasse were 5 of the top 7 penalized (31 total) with Dawkins the major culprit (11). Let's see what the new OL new coach does to clean it up. The top 5 OL for the Colts had 25 (somewhat better).
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 Beyond even the front-end like lost yards, auto first downs etc. I feel like we had quite a few nice plays come off the board for stupid stuff beyond holding like illegal shifts, or not lining up on the LOS. 1
Jobot Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 So in a year where the roster talent is significantly depleted we see an increase in penalties. Shocking.
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