John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Successful offenses have 3rd options that can get open. Sammy has a great AFC championship game you think if they end up winning that game and the super bowl they care how much he was paid?

 

theyre smart because they know they can afford that contract while Mahomes is on his rookie deal. 

 

We would be lucky to have Sammy on that deal right now 

 

With Tyreek Hill's availability for 2019 in question at this time, I'm sure the Chiefs are more than happy to have Watkins available.   He's not Hill (nobody is) but he ain't Kelvin Benjamin either.

   

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

6 hours ago, Magox said:

I am getting a kick out of all the conspiracy theories and rewriting's of history and facts.   

 

Sammy Watkins has massively underperformed expectations and his contract.  That is an indisputable position.   The Rams traded for him and decided after one season that they would just rather lose their 2nd round pick, let Sammy play elsewhere and pay the money to Cooks.   That is a fact.  Which it would be nearly impossible to reasonably argue that the Rams didnt make the right decision.  Right?  Or do one of you want to have a go at telling me that the Rams made the wrong decision?  That is now two teams that have decided to not to continue to pursue Watkins after observing him from up close.  Another fact.  Then he goes to the Chiefs and misses over a third of the season due to injuries and puts up pedestrian numbers with 40 receptions, 3 TD's, barely over 500 yards and an uninspiring 13 yards per reception.  Even if he had played all season at the rate that he was playing, he still would have had about around 750 yards and less than 60 receptions and around 5 TD's.

 

You guys want to know what Brandin Cooks did this past year with the Rams?  80 receptions and over 1200 yards.  That is double Sammy's production from the previous year.  Same offense,  same position the only difference is the player.

 

He's played with arguably 2 of the top 5 QB's this past 2 years and he still doesn't have a combined 1000 yards receiving.

 

What's the excuse?  Seriously, I would love to hear yet the umpteenth million excuse for Sammy's shortcomings.   Let's hear it.

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Coach Tuesday

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

If Sammy can just stay healthy, he’s poised to go off this year with Mahomes pitching to him and be a lock for the Pro Bowl, if not All Pro.

[Magox]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  “Fact.”

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

 

Of course it doesn't because it goes against your narrative.  Comparing Watkins to Cooks production is extremely relevant and telling, doesn't matter if it does much for you or not.  Cooks put up more receptions and yards in one season with the Goff than Watkins did with a whole season with Goff and 2/3 of a season with Mahomes COMBINED.   Fact.

 

Also, what you stated was indeed not a  "Fact".  Facts are not opinion based, that "aggressive" attempt is a characterization by an NFL insider.  However, what is a fact is that for the same amount of money that they signed Cooks with they decided to not pay Sammy with.    Now, that is a fact.

 

And in regards to the "Let's see how well these posts age" comment.  That's kind of humorous considering that for those of us who said a couple years back that Sammy's open market value would very likely not be matched with his on-the-field production and potential injury risks and for those that were whining incessantly how it was a bad decision to not have paid him top dollar have aged extremely well for some of us and not so much for his defenders.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Magox

[eball]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. I got flammed for calling the Pegulas incompetent, but this speaks to that. 

 

Its why you hire your GM before your head coach....

 

You should be "flammed" for calling the Pegulas incompetent because that's an ignorant remark.  At worst, the Pegulas are learning on the job and may have relied too heavily on people like Russ Brandon early in their Bills' ownership.  It has been repeated many times that keeping a GM and scouting staff on board until after the draft is not uncommon, even if a change will be made.  I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

Scott, I respect that you have opinions about what you think the Bills should or shouldn't have done, but it's not reasonable to label the Pegulas as "incompetent" with respect to what they have done regarding the Bills.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

 

The only fact that really matters is that Sammy Watkins has not been a reliable high-level contributor on any team he has played for thus far in the NFL, and for a 5th overall selection that's a failure.

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by eball

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, eball said:

 I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

I think even after that they were keeping him. I believe the point when the decided they weren't keeping him was when he disagreed on strategy with their new favourite son McDermott at some point in that offseason. I suspect they decided Whaley's fate at some time during February of that year (though I believe McDermott was intending to get rid of him and make room for his own guy from day 1). 

 

As for the press conference... I still say as much as Whaley was not a great public speaker some of that was on the Pegulas. Rex was THEIR choice, he was THEIR guy.... when they admitted inside two years it was a massive error it should have been THEM who were up infront of the press to explain the decision. That is how leadership and accountaility work. I always compare it back to the Jeff Lurie example in Philly when he fired his handpicked coach Chip Kelly. He fronted up. He was the first person from the organisation infront of a camera. He spent 45 minutes taking questions from journalists. He owned his decision and was ultimately accountable for it. The Pegulas' approach was for their interim Head Coach to go first and get an absolute grilling that left the poor guy so fried he couldn't remember which of his two bad Quarterbacks he was being ordered to start in the finale (said Cardale when he meant EJ) and then the next person out in front was their GM who was clearly not seeing eye to eye with the Head Coach but whose role in the firing was ambiguous at best to get asked questions that the man who made the decision - Terry Pegula - should have been explaining. 

 

It is my biggest black mark against the Pegulas so far. It was an abdication of their responsibility. And they then ended up doing a one on one phone interview with JW afterwards to try and smooth things over. I don't care whether they "wanted" to do it. I don't care if Pegula doesn't like being in front of the media. It was his responsibility to do so. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by GunnerBill

[C.Biscuit97]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. I got flammed for calling the Pegulas incompetent, but this speaks to that. 

 

Its why you hire your GM before your head coach....

I absolutely love the Pegulas (especially Kim ?) but they have issues running organizations at this point.  They won’t let Whaley hire a coach.  They hire McDermott, let Whaley stay on through the draft, and then have McDermott hire his friend.  In what world is Beane going to be able to fire McDermott?  It’s why no good team hires a coach before a GM.  It’s kinda insane.  

 

I mean look look at the Sabres.   The GM they fired last year traded for a Vezina finalist goalie; a 30 goal scorer (Kane), and O’Reilly who was the MVP of a Stanley cup champion and the Sabres were trash this year.  

 

I think the Pegulas will figure it out because they are awesome people but it’s been a struggle. 

18 minutes ago, eball said:

 

You should be "flammed" for calling the Pegulas incompetent because that's an ignorant remark.  At worst, the Pegulas are learning on the job and may have relied too heavily on people like Russ Brandon early in their Bills' ownership.  It has been repeated many times that keeping a GM and scouting staff on board until after the draft is not uncommon, even if a change will be made.  I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

Scott, I respect that you have opinions about what you think the Bills should or shouldn't have done, but it's not reasonable to label the Pegulas as "incompetent" with respect to what they have done regarding the Bills.

 

 

 

The only fact that really matters is that Sammy Watkins has not been a reliable high-level contributor on any team he has played for thus far in the NFL, and for a 5th overall selection that's a failure.

 

1) if Sammy was here, you’d make every excuse for him.

 

2). He has played on the last 2 number offenses for 2 of the best coaches in football, who paid premiums to acquire him.  Fun fact, qbs like having several good targets to throw to.  But clearly, our offenses in the last 2 seasons were high functioning attacks.  Maybe we can trade for another fat receiver again. 

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, eball said:

The only fact that really matters is that Sammy Watkins has not been a reliable high-level contributor on any team he has played for thus far in the NFL, and for a 5th overall selection that's a failure.

 

 

He was the 4th overall selection. I think Mack was 5th.

[Royale with Cheese]

34 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

 

The fact is the Rams had the option of keeping Watkins or going after Cooks....they wanted Cooks.

They could have tagged Watkins but instead, they tagged Joyner.  

 

Why can't two WR's have great production numbers?  Harrison/Wayne, Taylor/Rice, Bruce/Holt, Carter/Moss etc.....they happen.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The fact is the Rams had the option of keeping Watkins or going after Cooks....they wanted Cooks.

They could have tagged Watkins but instead, they tagged Joyner.  

 

Why can't two WR's have great production numbers?  Harrison/Wayne, Taylor/Rice, Bruce/Holt, Carter/Moss etc.....they happen.

Huh?  They traded for Cooks after Sammy signed for big money with KC the day free agency started.  

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huh?  They traded for Cooks after Sammy signed for big money with KC the day free agency started.  

 

So the Rams were willing to spend the money on Cooks and not Watkins?  

 

They let Sammy walk in FA and paid the same $16 million a year to Cooks instead.

They had the tag available and used it on Joyner instead.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000919753/article/rams-place-tag-lamarcus-joyner-watkins-set-to-be-fa

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So the Rams were willing to spend the money on Cooks and not Watkins?  

 

They let Sammy walk in FA and paid the same $16 million a year to Cooks instead.

They had the tag available and used it on Joyner instead.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000919753/article/rams-place-tag-lamarcus-joyner-watkins-set-to-be-fa

And Sammy played on the number 1 offense again. 

[teef]

why is it that the same poster that refuse to hear or make excuses for the performance of bills players, and doing just that for sammy watkins.  he's been a disappointment so far.  there's no way to argue that.  if he finally doesn't put up big numbers this year, he's officially a bust.  i think he can absolutely do it, but we'll see.

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And Sammy played on the number 1 offense again. 

so what?  i don't know why you think this is a good argument.  he put up lousy number in a high power offense.  that doesn't strike me as good.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, teef said:

why is it that the same poster that refuse to hear or make excuses for the performance of bills players, and doing just that for sammy watkins.  he's been a disappointment so far.  there's no way to argue that.  if he finally doesn't put up big numbers this year, he's officially a bust.  i think he can absolutely do it, but we'll see.

so what?  i don't know why you think this is a good argument.  he put up lousy number in a high power offense.  that doesn't strike me as good.

He was on a career pace until he got hurt.  He also had 100 yards in a title game.  Good offense coaches keep acquiring him.  

 

But clearly our franchise is smarter than them.  It’s been fun watching our offense the last 2 years. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 Good offense coaches keep acquiring him. 

 

And letting him walk. Sorry Mrs Watkins, your boy's a bust.

[teef]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

He was on a career pace until he got hurt.  He also had 100 yards in a title game.  Good offense coaches keep acquiring him.  

 

But clearly our franchise is smarter than them.  It’s been fun watching our offense the last 2 years. 

how did he do on the year as a whole?  and he got hurt again...that's his problem.  he can't stay available.  it's not a talent issue, it's a sammy issue.

 

 

again, our offense was lousy last year for a number of reasons.  none of those reasons are an excuse for sammy being under productive and overpaid.  

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And letting him walk. Sorry Mrs Watkins, your boy's a bust.

Sick burn old man!  Clearly Sammy is losing out by playing out on SB contenders,  the best offense in the entire league, and making $16 million/ year.  What a loser!

6 minutes ago, teef said:

how did he do on the year as a whole?  and he got hurt again...that's his problem.  he can't stay available.  it's not a talent issue, it's a sammy issue.

 

 

again, our offense was lousy last year for a number of reasons.  none of those reasons are an excuse for sammy being under productive and overpaid.  

Andy Reid, Sean McVay

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And Sammy played on the number 1 offense again. 

 

Good argument.  So did Chris Conley.  

Watkins was so important to the Rams, they just wouldn’t let him leave.

 

Biscuit, you’re generally negative on the Bills.

If the Bills had a WR that had Sammy’s production the last two years and we were paying him $16 million a year, you would not be happy at all.  You would complain until the cows come home.

 

Right now in the last two years, he’s pretty even with Zay Jones as far as production.

Watkins has played with 2 All Pro level QB’s in the last 2 years.  Zay, in that same span....5 different QB’s, 2 of them rookies....

[teef]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Andy Reid, Sean McVay

names!  what point are you trying to prove?

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Good argument.  So did Chris Conley.  

Watkins was so important to the Rams, they just wouldn’t let him leave.

 

Biscuit, you’re generally negative on the Bills.

If the Bills had a WR that had Sammy’s production the last two years and we were paying him $16 million a year, you would not be happy at all.  You would complain until the cows come home.

 

Right now in the last two years, he’s pretty even with Zay Jones as far as production.

Watkins has played with 2 All Pro level QB’s in the last 2 years.  Zay, in that same span....5 different QB’s, 2 of them rookies....

Nope.  I never would fault a team for doing everything to help a young QB.  I didn’t love the Sammy trade but they were trying to help a young qb. We don’t have a number 1 receiver.  The only reason Zay is somewhat close to Sammy (and Sammy’s numbers are better) is because SW has a broken foot.

 

Bills fans look at blanket numbers.  Julio Jones had 3 tds one year.  But his presence opens everything up for other players, Watkins isn’t Julio but the reason why great offensive coaches keep getting him, is because he’s a threat.  No team fears Zay. No one fears Jordan Matthews (he’s just as good as SAmmy!).  No one fears Benjamin but a buffet table.  

 

Again, we lack a number 1 receiver. Brown is too small.  Beasley is a slot guy.  Foster is a guy who couldn’t play at Bama who we cut.  Sammy on a broken foot is more of a threat than any player on the Bills.   No one fears our playmakers and it’s a huge problem.  

 

But hey, what do Reid and McVay know?

3 minutes ago, teef said:

names!  what point are you trying to prove?

Stay with me here.  Perhaps great offensive coaches know more than bitter Bills fans? ?.   It’s like some Bills fans laughed at stupid Belichick for paying Gilmore all that money!  

 

We are fans of a team that get excited when a qb throws for 200 yards!