CommonCents Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: I get the sense that Gunner isn’t so full of himself or so insecure in his beliefs that he wouldn’t own his opinion on Allen. Tattoo on his forehead? Kinda like when Aldo Raine carves into Hans Landa’s head? Gunner is reasonable and I appreciate his hard work and sharing it with the board, all compliments I have given him before. Just keeping the Allen train on track.
K-9 Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think I have already answered, though indirectly. I think had he been forced to play straight away - no. By the time he did become the KC starter Dennison was no longer our OC. He runs the zone freaking stretch. That is his scheme. Not his fault those above his head gave him a fat running back and insisted on him playing. Sorry if I missed it earlier. So, how about with Daboll last season then? I submit he would have been better, but given our line, and the absence of Hill, Kelce, and Hunt, I don’t believe he would have put up 50 TDs and had an MVP year, either. Its a ridiculous supposition, anyway. A complete fantasy where our own individual biases and projections have to tell the tale. No basis in reality. So I’ll leave the “what ifs” to others. 5 minutes ago, CommonCents said: Gunner is reasonable and I appreciate his hard work and sharing it with the board, all compliments I have given him before. Just keeping the Allen train on track. Oh, that Allen train is on track all right. All the way to Canton five years after he hangs them up.
GunnerBill Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, K-9 said: I get the sense that Gunner isn’t so full of himself or so insecure in his beliefs that he wouldn’t own his opinion on Allen. Tattoo on his forehead? Kinda like when Aldo Raine carves into Hans Landa’s head? There will be not tattoo anywhere on my body. I don't like them. But I have always said I hope my evaluation on Allen was wrong. It means the Bills win. I am reasonably optimistic. But I never back away from having opinions and I never try and change them after the fact. If you never sit on the fence you get things wrong sometimes. That is pretty much how I approach life, let alone football. 2 1
K-9 Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: There will be not tattoo anywhere on my body. I don't like them. But I have always said I hope my evaluation on Allen was wrong. It means the Bills win. I am reasonably optimistic. But I never back away from having opinions and I never try and change them after the fact. If you never sit on the fence you get things wrong sometimes. That is pretty much how I approach life, let alone football. Words to live by.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 27 minutes ago, K-9 said: So, how about with Daboll last season then? I submit he would have been better, but given our line, and the absence of Hill, Kelce, and Hunt, I don’t believe he would have put up 50 TDs and had an MVP year, either. Its a ridiculous supposition, anyway. A complete fantasy where our own individual biases and projections have to tell the tale. No basis in reality. So I’ll leave the “what ifs” to others. So you are specifically asking "what if"...........but at the same time you're not? Because you are leaving the "what ifs" to those "others"? You are all sortsa' confused. This message board is specifically for broad discussion like this.........I mean for 4 months the majority of the football offseason revolves around "what if" this player is drafted here or signs there.........and people find it entertaining. 1
eball Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He runs the zone freaking stretch. That is his scheme. Not his fault those above his head gave him a fat running back and insisted on him playing. Yeah, but that's the very reason he's not a good OC. Anyone who forces his scheme upon players who can't execute it is doomed for failure. 1
GunnerBill Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, eball said: Yeah, but that's the very reason he's not a good OC. Anyone who forces his scheme upon players who can't execute it is doomed for failure. Dennison is a scheme coordinator. If Sean McDermott didn't know that when he hired him he ought to have. I said it before that very season and talked about "scheme arrogance" as a potential issue in accomodating Tyrod. As usual at the time I was called negative. Rick Dennison was an ordinary OC when he arrived here and an ordinary OC when he left here. He was absolutely not the reason the offense sucked. Edited June 24, 2019 by GunnerBill 2
Royale with Cheese Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Dennison is a scheme cooardinator. If Sean McDermott didn't know that when he hired him he ought to have. I said it before that very season and talked about "scheme arrogance" as a potential issue in accomodating Tyrod. As usual at the time I was called negative. Rick Dennison was an ordinary OC when he arrived here and an ordinary OC when he left here. He was absolutely not the reason the offense sucked. Do you think Dennison could have had better success here if he had the offensive line talent we have now? How much to you attribute to the offensive line mess to Castillo?
dave mcbride Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Dave...........all you EVER talk about is DVOA.......it is a nice stat that puts you in the ball park I believe.........but it's actually not universally accepted as the singular defining stat that you try to make it out to be. Point differential is also a really good stat traditionally..............and that's because scoring is also a very telling stat........particularly on game day. I like my offense to score points and my defense to prevent them. I get that, but at the margins points scored and allowed depends to an extent on field position starts, ST play, turnovers given up or causes by the other unit, etc. And then there’s strength of schedule — not every team is lucky enough to be the Patriots and get an automatic 6 games against perpetually inferior organizations. DVOA does a good job of washing away all that noise, which is why I like it.
Cripple Creek Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, eball said: Yeah, but that's the very reason he's not a good OC. Anyone who forces his scheme upon players who can't execute it is doomed for failure. Rex? 1
GunnerBill Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Do you think Dennison could have had better success here if he had the offensive line talent we have now? How much to you attribute to the offensive line mess to Castillo? Yes, possbily, I think execution and personnel were both a bigger problem than scheme and playcalling. Castillo is a bad coach I think everyone knew that. Being given a fat running back when his scheme is predicated off the outside zone run didn't help either. All that being said Dennison isn't a creative, modern, imaginative OC so I doubt he was ever going to be the right guy long term in Buffalo if they want to become a team with a multiple, modern, offensive identity. Edited June 24, 2019 by GunnerBill
Royale with Cheese Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yes, possbily, I think execution and personnel were both a bigger problem than scheme and playcalling. Castillo is a bad coach I think everyone knew that. Being given a fat running back when his scheme is predicated off the outside zone run didn't help either. All that being said Dennison isn't a creative, modern, imaginative OC so I doubt he was ever going to be the right guy long term in Buffalo if they want to become a team with a multiple, modern, offensive identity. What do you like about Daboll....assuming you like him?
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 3 hours ago, eball said: Yeah, but that's the very reason he's not a good OC. Anyone who forces his scheme upon players who can't execute it is doomed for failure. But McDermott hired him in the first place knowing that! A lot of people (myself included) knew that offense was a terrible fit for Tyrod and this team. Yet as bad as Dennison was and I was told it couldn’t worse than him, our offense was even worse last year. And Daboll has a worse nfl resume than Dennison. Its amazing the passes this new regime gets from some fans. They have a ton to prove this year on offense. 49 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Rex? Very true. Rex murder a top 5 defense with his “scheme.” 1
eball Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: But McDermott hired him in the first place knowing that! A lot of people (myself included) knew that offense was a terrible fit for Tyrod and this team. Yet as bad as Dennison was and I was told it couldn’t worse than him, our offense was even worse last year. And Daboll has a worse nfl resume than Dennison. Its amazing the passes this new regime gets from some fans. They have a ton to prove this year on offense. Dennison was a bad hire. McD corrected his mistake after 2017. With respect to Daboll -- how can anyone possibly evaluate him after last season, good or bad? He had to start the season with Peterman at QB. His OL was crappy all season. Benjamin was a joke. He then had a raw rookie QB. If anything he deserves a pass for last year. And while we're talking about 2017 -- did you not see marked improvement in the offense over the 2nd half of the season? Does Daboll receive no credit for that?
GunnerBill Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: What do you like about Daboll....assuming you like him? I think he is an incomplete. But I liked the way he adapted as he went last year. I think he is less of a stickler for a certain scheme and is much more a guy who will build an offense as the talent and cohesion develops. His results as yet do not scream success, but I am still optimistic he might be the right guy at least for the next couple of years. 1
Cripple Creek Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: They have a ton to prove this year on offense. No question, but, it's FO and offensive staff. I choose to remain positive while skeptical. I like much of what I've seen, but, it don't mean a thing if you don't score that thing. 2
SoTier Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 19 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Denison was OC in 17. Daboll last year and this coming year. The QBs in 17 vs. 18/19 are different. New O line coach this year vs. the last two. And so on. What are you talking about? I was responding to this quote from K-9: "If you really, honestly think Mahomes would have won the SB or pitched 50 TD passes with a stable of Deonte Thompson, Zay Jones, Charles Clay, and Shady with Rick Dennison as the architect, what can I say?" This is essentially the pardigm on Mahomes vs Allen on TSW: passing on Mahomes was okay because he would have been mediocre on the Bills because of the team around him, but Allen will flourish now that he's got some modest talent around him. My point is that if a special player like Mahomes would have struggled because the Bills wouldn't have put a good team around him, including coaching, how can we (posters on TSW) realistically expect Allen to flourish with the modest talent currently on the Bills team when he's so much more raw than Mahomes was as a rookie, and so needs so much more support?
Gugny Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, SoTier said: I was responding to this quote from K-9: "If you really, honestly think Mahomes would have won the SB or pitched 50 TD passes with a stable of Deonte Thompson, Zay Jones, Charles Clay, and Shady with Rick Dennison as the architect, what can I say?" This is essentially the pardigm on Mahomes vs Allen on TSW: passing on Mahomes was okay because he would have been mediocre on the Bills because of the team around him, but Allen will flourish now that he's got some modest talent around him. My point is that if a special player like Mahomes would have struggled because the Bills wouldn't have put a good team around him, including coaching, how can we (posters on TSW) realistically expect Allen to flourish with the modest talent currently on the Bills team when he's so much more raw than Mahomes was as a rookie, and so needs so much more support? How are you comparing rookie Allen to rookie Mahomes when rookie Mahomes didn't play?
K-9 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Dennison is a scheme coordinator. If Sean McDermott didn't know that when he hired him he ought to have. I said it before that very season and talked about "scheme arrogance" as a potential issue in accomodating Tyrod. As usual at the time I was called negative. Rick Dennison was an ordinary OC when he arrived here and an ordinary OC when he left here. He was absolutely not the reason the offense sucked. But he won a Super Bowl as an OC and would have made Mahomes a star just like Reid did in KC!
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: How are you comparing rookie Allen to rookie Mahomes when rookie Mahomes didn't play? In his one start as a rookie, Mahomes had more passing yards than Allen in any of his starts this year. Mahomes is special.
Recommended Posts