3rdand12 Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Chemical said: No one is suggesting we do anything TO THEM. We are simply stating our displeasure with many moves made by this regime. This thread was about high praise for the coach and GM. Some fans strongly disagree that they are doing a good job, that's all. Not sure why I have to explain what is happening, but here we are. was the take them out back and shoot them an option though ? The started out rough, but i may suggest they are improving in most reviewable aspects this offseason. 25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not until Edmunds proves himself as a 1st rounder (and he was the 9th ranked player on my board in 2018 so I liked the pick). I am sorry Shaw but I consider putting the worst Quarterback I have seen in 16 years of watching this league out there to start on 3 separate occasions was - to my mind at least - a disaster. Doesn't mean I have to think it damaged the 2019 Bills or beyond. But it basically threw games in 2017 and 2018 and it was entirely predictable to anyone who watched, and I mean really watched, his college tape. so Bills were tanking in a sneaky manner ? why else would they do that? or was it because McBeanes were thinking their future ( Allen ) would have gotten destroyed with that O line. he almost did. i have said Peterman was the sacrificial lamb and intended as much.
oldmanfan Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I deal with it at the resident and Fellow level. At the student level, students are free to choose their future career, for the most part. Once matched, it's difficult to get rid of the poorly functioning resident trainee. The path of least resistance is to promote and finish them, unfortunately. It takes a lot at that stage to be sure. What area do you work in; I'm in reproductive medicine myself.
Mr. WEO Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: It takes a lot at that stage to be sure. What area do you work in; I'm in reproductive medicine myself. General Surgery/Bariatrics
K-9 Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not until Edmunds proves himself as a 1st rounder (and he was the 9th ranked player on my board in 2018 so I liked the pick). Wow, you’re hard to please. We acquired the 65th overall pick for Tyrod and gave up the 85th overall and the 234th overall that we had previously acquired from the Chargers for Cardale Jones (basically nothing). On that basis alone it’s at least a push, although I think we win that deal on its face. But imo, to use that 65th overall as a chip to get a high end talent in Edmunds makes it a steal for us. When Edmunds eventually develops into the Pro Bowl defender he was projected to be, it renders what we gave up for Benjamin a total non factor compared to what we gained in the TT trade, imo. Edited June 20, 2019 by K-9
Augie Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not until Edmunds proves himself as a 1st rounder (and he was the 9th ranked player on my board in 2018 so I liked the pick). That’s encouraging, and if you felt that highly of him going in, it’s hard to be too negative if it doesn’t work out. We make the best decisions we can with the information we have available. For those who go back later and use the 20/20 hindsight to criticize, I say post all your thoughts and decisions in advance so we can go back and pick it apart. Every team making a draft pick is just making an educated guess. Edmunds is an athletic freak, and I hope they find the best way to use him and he grows into the player he is capable of being.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, K-9 said: The Tyrod trade netted us Edmunds so does that increase the value enough to outweigh the KB trade? Netted? No......the pick for Taylor was part of the draft capital used to acquire Edmunds. Patrick Mahomes + Tyrod Taylor = Tre White + Tremaine Edmunds. 32 teams would rather have Mahomes. 3
Shaw66 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Not until Edmunds proves himself as a 1st rounder (and he was the 9th ranked player on my board in 2018 so I liked the pick). I am sorry Shaw but I consider putting the worst Quarterback I have seen in 16 years of watching this league out there to start on 3 separate occasions was - to my mind at least - a disaster. Doesn't mean I have to think it damaged the 2019 Bills or beyond. But it basically threw games in 2017 and 2018 and it was entirely predictable to anyone who watched, and I mean really watched, his college tape. Thanks. Your response makes sense. I realize now that we have different perspectives. I understand how you can call a game, or even a series of plays a disaster. I've done it, I'm sure. But when we are talking about whether a regime is succeeding in building a football team, from my perspective one or two games is not a disaster. It's just part of the normal course of a successful season. Whenever I reread the history of the regular seasons in 1964 and 65 and the Super Bowl years, I'm surprised how ugly some losses, and some wins, were. Some losses were disasters in your sense, but how the team responded was more important. But you are right that Peterman was bad on a monumental scale, and what McDermott was thinking is a bit of a mystery. I can speculate, but it takes almost comic-book-like creativity.
ColoradoBills Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 5 hours ago, SoTier said: They must not have been looking very hard because they could have found somebody considerably better than Peterman without sinking to bringing in a first round bust or a retiree given that they found Barkley within a couple of days of Anderson getting hurt. Instead, they waited a month and signed Anderson who promptly got hurt. I can think of numerous reasons for the Bills to wait a month to replace Peterman, none of them very complimentary to McDermott and/or Beane. At minimum, I think the delay in finding a competent backup QB suggests that either or both didn't think that having a competent backup QB was particularly important, despite Allen's struggles and his propensity to run too often. I said they were looking but didn't do anything quick enough. We agree on that. If the Bills don't keep 3 on the active roster I sure hope they use a PS spot to keep one. If they don't I will question whether they learned their lesson. Until then it's forward with the 2019 season. Go Bills.
K-9 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Netted? No......the pick for Taylor was part of the draft capital used to acquire Edmunds. Patrick Mahomes + Tyrod Taylor = Tre White + Tremaine Edmunds. 32 teams would rather have Mahomes. Semantics. It was the chip required by the Ravens to complete the deal to move up to 16. So yeah, without that chip, we don’t net Edmunds. Thanks, Tyrod. Besides, you know damned well what I meant. Your second sentence is one helluva stretch. A whole year and two entirely different drafts. A yeoman’s effort in dot connecting. Well done. Regarding Mahomes: yeah, NOW! 2
BADOLBILZ Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Semantics. It was the chip required by the Ravens to complete the deal to move up to 16. So yeah, without that chip, we don’t net Edmunds. Thanks, Tyrod. Besides, you know damned well what I meant. Your second sentence is one helluva stretch. A whole year and two entirely different drafts. A yeoman’s effort in dot connecting. Well done. Regarding Mahomes: yeah, NOW! 1. No.......it's LITERALLY not what netted the Bills Edmunds.........it was just a fraction of the cost. If you want to know an exact % that pick weighed into the deal then check your preferred draft pick trade value chart. 2. The Bills acquired the 1st round pick that was the foundation of the Edmunds deal as part of the compensation for the pick the Chiefs used on Mahomes. They then added the pick acquired for Tyrod to that and traded up to get Edmunds. I mean if @Zerovoltz came on here and gloated that the Chiefs netted Mahomes for Edmunds I suspect you'd object to the omission of Tre White. 3. Right........the quality of draft decisions become clearer the further you get from that draft. Remember earlier in this thread when you were complaining about people judging draft decisions prior to 3 years? And now you are complaining about hindsight? Would you say that trading Bozak "netted" the Sabres a 2019 1st, a 2020 2nd, Tage Thompson, Sobotka and Bergland from St. Louis? Sounds like a sweeeeeet deal by Botterill! Go Sabres! Edited June 21, 2019 by BADOLBILZ 2
K-9 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1. No.......it's LITERALLY not what netted the Bills Edmunds.........it was just a fraction of the cost. If you want to know an exact % that pick weighed into the deal then check your preferred draft pick trade value chart. 2. The Bills acquired the 1st round pick that was the foundation of the Edmunds deal as part of the compensation for the pick the Chiefs used on Mahomes. They then added the pick acquired for Tyrod to that and traded up to get Edmunds. I mean if @Zerovoltz came on here and gloated that the Chiefs netted Mahomes for Edmunds I suspect you'd object to the omission of Tre White. 3. Right........the quality of draft decisions become clearer the further you get from that draft. Remember earlier in this thread when you were complaining about people judging draft decisions prior to 3 years? And now you are complaining about hindsight? Would you say that trading Bozak "netted" the Sabres a 2019 1st, a 2020 2nd, Tage Thompson, Sobotka and Bergland from St. Louis? Sounds like a sweeeeeet deal by Botterill! Go Sabres! Nope. You’ll have to find another taker for this particular rabbit hole of yours. But no matter how you want to spin it, the simple fact remains that we turned Tyrod Tailor into a piece the Ravens demanded to make the deal to move up and snag Edmunds. There is just no getting around that basic fact. And as such, the value of the TT trade far exceeds that which we gave up for Kelvin Benjamin. The end. As is often the case, I can’t make any sense out of your Bozak reference. I’m sure it makes sense on planet Bado though, so good for you and the space cadets who like to go there. But I have no interest in making the trip.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Nope. You’ll have to find another taker for this particular rabbit hole of yours. But no matter how you want to spin it, the simple fact remains that we turned Tyrod Tailor into a piece the Ravens demanded to make the deal to move up and snag Edmunds. There is just no getting around that basic fact. And as such, the value of the TT trade far exceeds that which we gave up for Kelvin Benjamin. The end. As is often the case, I can’t make any sense out of your Bozak reference. I’m sure it makes sense on planet Bado though, so good for you and the space cadets who like to go there. But I have no interest in making the trip. Bozak was critical to the O'Reilly trade........if not for him the Sabres wouldn't have netted what they did! You can't remember that trade when I gave you 6 of the 7 pieces? Your recollection of recent events is not good..........you might be the first person to get CTE from working in a football ticket office.
Augie Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) The Benjamin trade was just a terrible mistake. They were trying to give Josh a big target, but he had no interest. He was pathetic. We don’t know what they knew behind the scenes, but what a train wreck! Same with the lack of a guy behind Allen to start last year. Totally messed up. And there are other decisions easy to dislike. STILL, I like our direction. I’ll look at the whole picture, and I like what I see. . Edited June 21, 2019 by Augie 1
GunnerBill Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 6 hours ago, K-9 said: Wow, you’re hard to please. We acquired the 65th overall pick for Tyrod and gave up the 85th overall and the 234th overall that we had previously acquired from the Chargers for Cardale Jones (basically nothing). On that basis alone it’s at least a push, although I think we win that deal on its face. But imo, to use that 65th overall as a chip to get a high end talent in Edmunds makes it a steal for us. When Edmunds eventually develops into the Pro Bowl defender he was projected to be, it renders what we gave up for Benjamin a total non factor compared to what we gained in the TT trade, imo. I agree. When. That is the key word.
John from Riverside Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Netted? No......the pick for Taylor was part of the draft capital used to acquire Edmunds. Patrick Mahomes + Tyrod Taylor = Tre White + Tremaine Edmunds. 32 teams would rather have Mahomes. Well I disagree with that.......totally disagree. Mahommes had a great year...but Josh Allen, Edmunds, Tre White i a good haul and will probably look even better as the years go on 2
Zerovoltz Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Well I disagree with that.......totally disagree. Mahommes had a great year...but Josh Allen, Edmunds, Tre White i a good haul and will probably look even better as the years go on It was only one year....but a historic, league MVP year at the most important position in the game. It's the offseason and not much going on and it's 4 AM and I am at work doing nothing....so I forgive me if I couldn't resist to troll a little here... Come on.....in the history of the NFL, no one would ever trade a 23 year old league MVP at QB coming off a historic season, for any combo of players ever. I understand the circumstances of how the Mahomes trade went down....given that Buffalo was NOT taking a QB in the 2017 draft under any circumstances...then trading out was a fine thing to do. The mistake wasn't with McDermott...and Beane wasn't around....the owners (pegulas) awkward hiring of coach, then having lame duck GM...then later hiring GM after draft...all but assured that there would be no QB taken. McDermott simply wasn't in a position to make a well informed committment to ANY of them at the time of the 2017 draft. So again...GIVEN that the Bills were not in the QB market in 2017 due to circumstances created by the team owners...McD did VERY WELL. But that's like saying the Edmonton Oilers did VERY WELL when they traded Wayne Gretzky. You can't "win" that trade. At best, you could say the Oilers didn't completely lose the trade...they did go on to win a cup in 1990 without Gretzky.....it's similar in this case. Buffalo can not "win" the Mahomes trade...but it is entirely possible that they didn't lose it if Allen works out...the other bits...Tre White and Edmunds look good so far...but no executive ever, would trade Mahomes for Allen, Edmunds and White....you could even throw in the next 10 Bills round 1 picks with those guys and no one makes that trade. It all hinges of course on Allen...if he becomes a top 10 NFL QB....along with the other guys in the trade...you will have done well and not lost the trade. 4 1 1
eball Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 Peterman reminds me of the Iron Born. "What is dead will never die." 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 49 minutes ago, eball said: Peterman reminds me of the Iron Born. "What is dead will never die." So is this thread 1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said: It was only one year....but a historic, league MVP year at the most important position in the game. It's the offseason and not much going on and it's 4 AM and I am at work doing nothing....so I forgive me if I couldn't resist to troll a little here... Come on.....in the history of the NFL, no one would ever trade a 23 year old league MVP at QB coming off a historic season, for any combo of players ever. I understand the circumstances of how the Mahomes trade went down....given that Buffalo was NOT taking a QB in the 2017 draft under any circumstances...then trading out was a fine thing to do. The mistake wasn't with McDermott...and Beane wasn't around....the owners (pegulas) awkward hiring of coach, then having lame duck GM...then later hiring GM after draft...all but assured that there would be no QB taken. McDermott simply wasn't in a position to make a well informed committment to ANY of them at the time of the 2017 draft. So again...GIVEN that the Bills were not in the QB market in 2017 due to circumstances created by the team owners...McD did VERY WELL. But that's like saying the Edmonton Oilers did VERY WELL when they traded Wayne Gretzky. You can't "win" that trade. At best, you could say the Oilers didn't completely lose the trade...they did go on to win a cup in 1990 without Gretzky.....it's similar in this case. Buffalo can not "win" the Mahomes trade...but it is entirely possible that they didn't lose it if Allen works out...the other bits...Tre White and Edmunds look good so far...but no executive ever, would trade Mahomes for Allen, Edmunds and White....you could even throw in the next 10 Bills round 1 picks with those guys and no one makes that trade. It all hinges of course on Allen...if he becomes a top 10 NFL QB....along with the other guys in the trade...you will have done well and not lost the trade. Oh but the Buffalo Bills did select a QB in the 2017 draft so your premise is flawed. He also went on to set some league records. 4
K-9 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, eball said: Peterman reminds me of the Iron Born. "What is dead will never die." And yet, there he is, weaving his practice in shorts magic with another team and getting praised for how good he looks.
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