Royale with Cheese Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, SoTier said: Hardly. I just don't like giving handouts to billionaires when they repeatedly fail to deliver what they promise. The 2018 Bills were NOT entertaining at all except for Josh Allen's heroics. Moreover, the Buffalo Sabres have rarely been entertaining since Pegula purchased them. If Pegula wants money for his new stadium -- which likely will price out many of the Bills long-time faithful just like what happened with the Jets and Giants -- then he needs to prove he can deliver a reasonably entertaining product rather than a team that gets blown out by 20+ points in every fourth game, that can't score more than 1 offensive TD a game, and is out of the playoff hunt by October. Isn't that just about the same excuse that supporters of the Bills trading away Marshawn Lynch used? Hopefully, this won't be another case of the Bills parting with a future All Pro just because they didn't want him around. We just drafted a RB at #9 overall, Fred Jackson was entering his prime and Lynch gained weight, noticeably slow...he wasn’t motivated in Buffalo anymore. I remember hearing one of the Bills players talking on WGR about Lynch (maybe Wood?) in his last few games in Buffalo. Anyway they stated that Lynch wouldn’t even stretch before games anymore. Said a change of scenery was really needed in his case. So you think that the Steelers made a mistake getting rid of Antonio Brown?
oldmanfan Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: We just drafted a RB at #9 overall, Fred Jackson was entering his prime and Lynch gained weight, noticeably slow...he wasn’t motivated in Buffalo anymore. I remember hearing one of the Bills players talking on WGR about Lynch (maybe Wood?) in his last few games in Buffalo. Anyway they stated that Lynch wouldn’t even stretch before games anymore. Said a change of scenery was really needed in his case. So you think that the Steelers made a mistake getting rid of Antonio Brown? When we drafted Spiller Lynch and his agent told Buddy he would leave in Greer agency. So they got what they could for him. His bad acts only helped making that decision. 1
GunnerBill Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Maybe you’re not looking hard enough. Can you find anyone who, when asked specifically about the playoff appearance, had nothing good to say about it and only gave excuses for why it happened? I can find people who say it was lucky - yes. And it was. It wasn't only luck but I don't find anyone who says it was pure luck either. I think what is happening here is certain people are not reading the words on the page. They are reading them and adding their own interpretations.
eball Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 14 hours ago, Magox said: Let me sum this up really quickly. Dareus' had two dominant years, 2013 and 2014. Signed a huge deal in 2015 and never had a dominant year ever since he got paid. Has played decent level of run clogging football slightly more on than off since his last dominant year in 2014. He is one suspension away from being locked away from the NFL for a long time. Dareus was signed at $16M a year, Star at $10M a year. Dareus is the better player even though he isn't who he used to be, but he's not that much better than Star. Not to mention that Beane/McD can count on Star not being late for practices, failing drug tests or getting suspended for some other stupid excuse. In other words, they can depend on him, and they know that he'll clog running lanes. Bottom line, they were willing to pay $10M a year for a non spectacular run clogger, even though I do believe he's probably only worth around $7M a year but they were not willing to continue paying $16m a year for a player that could do a little more than Star but someone that they couldn't rely on who was only one suspension away from being potentially out of the league. This is pretty good stuff. Those who complain about Star don't seem to understand that Star was never intended to replace the player Dareus could have been, and wasn't paid that way. His contract is not absurd, it's a little high. And it doesn't hamstring the Bills from doing anything else they want to do.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 20 hours ago, Gugny said: Here's my reality .............................. outside of a couple games vs. Miami, Tyrod Taylor sucked his entire time in Buffalo. The game in NJ was a shitshow on offense and defense (this is a game I actually attended). Tyrod padded the stats and made the game appear closer during the last 5-6 minutes of the game (AKA "Garbage Time). Did I think we'd win with Peterman? I wasn't sure. Did I think we'd win with Taylor? Absolutely not. That's why I was fine with him getting benched. So yes ....................................... I'm still going with that. You aren't alone in thinking Peterman was going to be better...........you just couldn't have been any more wrong...........even the dubiously dubbed "coach" Sal Capaccio thought he was going to much better than Tyrod. I was certain he was going to fail based on a simple eye test.......seeing his chuck and duck act in the preseason that everyone fawned over yet which only resulted in 50% completions...............it was inevitable that those passes thrown up for grabs were going to turn into interceptions against actual starting NFL talent. First rule of Jauron Ball is don't turn the ball over. Utter stupidity by McDermott to forget his first rule. Fortunately he went back to Tyrod and Taylor guided them to that key road win in KC. Best thing about McDermott is that he owns and addresses his mistakes. You should own that awful take instead of defending it. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 5 hours ago, eball said: This is pretty good stuff. Those who complain about Star don't seem to understand that Star was never intended to replace the player Dareus could have been, and wasn't paid that way. His contract is not absurd, it's a little high. And it doesn't hamstring the Bills from doing anything else they want to do. Well yes he was brought in to play the 1 tech like Dareus...........which is a position that involves some stacking of blockers but also allows for more freedom to make plays than nose tackle. But let's say Star was just signed to be a LOS bound nose tackle.............well the highest paid one of those is Damon Harrison who signed a 5 year $47M deal with the Giants with $24M guaranteed........... slightly less than Star's ABSURD contract and almost certainly the comp that Star's agent and the Bills used to come up with that number. But Harrison and Lotulelei aren't on the same planet as players............Harrison is good for 75-80 tackles and 10+ backfield plays per year...........Star was only about 1/3 as productive in the previous years in Carolina when he signed that contract.......that's why it was panned by most observers at the time as the worst or one of the worst deals signed. But last year he put up just 17 tackles and 1 TFL. That's woeful and for Damon Harrison+ money at that spot. See Harrison Phillips stats and compare.........35 tackles and 6 backfield plays in 8% less snaps than Star. What's Phillips worth? $20M per? That role/position traditionally does not pay well and yet McBeane paid Lotulelei like the best in the league. Face it......Star was a turd last year..........he hasn't even been good for a while.........basically since after his rookie year when he was a touted first round pick who was supposed to be a dominant player for years to come(sound familiar?). That hasn't happened but it didn't stop McBeane from doubling down on their cap mess at DT1T. What you "don't seem to understand" is how out of whack that contract is. It's horrible. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 21 hours ago, Gugny said: Here's my reality .............................. outside of a couple games vs. Miami, Tyrod Taylor sucked his entire time in Buffalo. The game in NJ was a shitshow on offense and defense (this is a game I actually attended). Tyrod padded the stats and made the game appear closer during the last 5-6 minutes of the game (AKA "Garbage Time). Did I think we'd win with Peterman? I wasn't sure. Did I think we'd win with Taylor? Absolutely not. That's why I was fine with him getting benched. So yes ....................................... I'm still going with that.
ColoradoBills Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 The Bills management ate $24 million to get Marcell Dareus off the team. They did not want him on the team. Comparing game stats are meaningless. Dareus was McDermott's and Beane's "poster child" of what a player that didn't fit the process was all about. I know a lot of people don't like that fact but let it go.......they didn't want him on the team. 2
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: The Bills management ate $24 million to get Marcell Dareus off the team. They did not want him on the team. Comparing game stats are meaningless. Dareus was McDermott's and Beane's "poster child" of what a player that didn't fit the process was all about. I know a lot of people don't like that fact but let it go.......they didn't want him on the team. That simple fact trumps all other factors involved; renders them all moot points. Why we insist on believing it's still worth debating is beyond me.
eball Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: That simple fact trumps all other factors involved; renders them all moot points. Why we insist on believing it's still worth debating is beyond me. It's like I said above; the Bills didn't sign Star to replace the player Dareus could be. They overpaid a bit for a guy they knew who fit the culture and was expected to be a solid contributor. 1
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, eball said: It's like I said above; the Bills didn't sign Star to replace the player Dareus could be. They overpaid a bit for a guy they knew who fit the culture and was expected to be a solid contributor. Team "fits" are not an insignificant factor, especially when it's a player you are intimately familiar with as a coach. And I agree with you that McBeane had no illusions that Star was gonna be on par with Dareus. None at all.
ColoradoBills Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, K-9 said: That simple fact trumps all other factors involved; renders them all moot points. Why we insist on believing it's still worth debating is beyond me. While the cap hit and losing a talented player hurt in the short term there cannot be any debate the move was huge and all about getting him off the team. I will say that things get a little cloudier with the Sammy trade, Glenn trade etc BUT the Dareus trade is obvious.
Royale with Cheese Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Well yes he was brought in to play the 1 tech like Dareus...........which is a position that involves some stacking of blockers but also allows for more freedom to make plays than nose tackle. But let's say Star was just signed to be a LOS bound nose tackle.............well the highest paid one of those is Damon Harrison who signed a 5 year $47M deal with the Giants with $24M guaranteed........... slightly less than Star's ABSURD contract and almost certainly the comp that Star's agent and the Bills used to come up with that number. But Harrison and Lotulelei aren't on the same planet as players............Harrison is good for 75-80 tackles and 10+ backfield plays per year...........Star was only about 1/3 as productive in the previous years in Carolina when he signed that contract.......that's why it was panned by most observers at the time as the worst or one of the worst deals signed. But last year he put up just 17 tackles and 1 TFL. That's woeful and for Damon Harrison+ money at that spot. See Harrison Phillips stats and compare.........35 tackles and 6 backfield plays in 8% less snaps than Star. What's Phillips worth? $20M per? That role/position traditionally does not pay well and yet McBeane paid Lotulelei like the best in the league. Face it......Star was a turd last year..........he hasn't even been good for a while.........basically since after his rookie year when he was a touted first round pick who was supposed to be a dominant player for years to come(sound familiar?). That hasn't happened but it didn't stop McBeane from doubling down on their cap mess at DT1T. What you "don't seem to understand" is how out of whack that contract is. It's horrible. So basically, box score scouting and raw stats tell the whole story here? So when late July/early August opens up...I'm assuming Star isn't going to be running with the first team?
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said: While the cap hit and losing a talented player hurt in the short term there cannot be any debate the move was huge and all about getting him off the team. I will say that things get a little cloudier with the Sammy trade, Glenn trade etc BUT the Dareus trade is obvious. Perhaps, but when I put those moves in context it makes sense. McBeane were clearly setting their sights on the 2018 QB class, one of the best and deepest in history. With that as a backdrop and having to make a decision on exercising the 5th year option on an injury prone and (self admitted) selfish player not all in with the program in Sammy as well as a less than reliably available Cordy Glenn who was capably filled in for by a rookie LT, I think they saw an opportunity to acquire valuable draft assets to use as chips in that QB rich draft they had their sights on. A plan they executed quite well, imo.
JohnC Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 32 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: The Bills management ate $24 million to get Marcell Dareus off the team. They did not want him on the team. Comparing game stats are meaningless. Dareus was McDermott's and Beane's "poster child" of what a player that didn't fit the process was all about. I know a lot of people don't like that fact but let it go.......they didn't want him on the team. You clearly and succinctly pointed out what the Dareus issue was all about. The staff didn't just talk----they acted. Not only was the message sent to Dareus--- it also was sent to the rest of the team that talent not combined with effort was not acceptable. Dareus simply didn't measure up. So he was dispatched. This wasn't a complicated issue that required a great deal of analysis. 2 1
Gugny Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, JohnC said: You clearly and succinctly pointed out what the Dareus issue was all about. The staff didn't just talk----they acted. Not only was the message sent to Dareus--- it also was sent to the rest of the team that talent not combined with effort was not acceptable. Dareus simply didn't measure up. So he was dispatched. This wasn't a complicated issue that required a great deal of analysis. I agree, but I also believe McDermott knew he didn't want Dareus before he was even hired.
Royale with Cheese Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, JohnC said: You clearly and succinctly pointed out what the Dareus issue was all about. The staff didn't just talk----they acted. Not only was the message sent to Dareus--- it also was sent to the rest of the team that talent not combined with effort was not acceptable. Dareus simply didn't measure up. So he was dispatched. This wasn't a complicated issue that required a great deal of analysis. I used to defend Dareus....until he missed the bus for the preseason game. How does an adult miss the bus time when it's directly in front of the hotel? Then shows up just before the game starts? I played college ball and the bus is out there 30 minutes before the leave time. We once stayed in the same hotel as the Phillies....same circumstances. It's not rush rush....they give you plenty time to get on the bus. They even have equipment managers to load the bus....you just stand next to this big vehicle at the time you're supposed to be there. 1
JohnC Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: I agree, but I also believe McDermott knew he didn't want Dareus before he was even hired. I disagree. When Dareus was playing for his contract he was one of the most domineering interior linemen in the league. He made the other lineman more effective because he was very often double teamed. After he got his contract he became slothful. McDermott would have loved to have the motivated Dareus on his defense. His effort vanished and "I don't care" attitude was on display for everyone to see. The boss acted like a boss in control and shipped his jiggly arssse out of town. I salute the coach.
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Gugny said: I agree, but I also believe McDermott knew he didn't want Dareus before he was even hired. Before he was hired or after McDermott came in and crunched the tape on Dareus? I think it was the latter because he'd have seen what we all saw; a player capable of mind boggling domination at times as well as a player just going through the motions at times as well. Which is why I think he gave Dareus every chance to buy into the process and be a max effort player on every snap. What he got, in addition to chronic tardiness issues, was a player that put out part time effort. It was GLARING at times in the first month and a half of the '17 season. Edited June 18, 2019 by K-9
Royale with Cheese Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Before he was hired or after McDermott came in and crunched the tape on Dareus? I think it was the latter because he'd have seen what we all saw; a player capable of mind boggling domination at times as well as a player just going through the motions at times as well. Which is why I think he gave Dareus every chance to buy into the process and be a max effort player on every snap. What he got, in addition to chronic tardiness issues, was a player that put out part time effort. It was GLARING at times in the first month and a half of the '17 season. I agree 100%. I think he knew he had to keep an eye on Marcell and when the consistent issues kept coming up....he just got tired of it.
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