Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: And if they hadn't you'd complain that they didn't. Oh really? We would be mad that we couldn’t “afford” that star contract and John Brown?
oldmanfan Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: Oh really? We would be mad that we couldn’t “afford” that star contract and John Brown? If Beane or McD says it's white our friend here says it's black. 8 minutes ago, Chemical said: Sammy has what would have been the catch to send them to the super bowl if Dee Ford hadn’t been lined up “Offside” Dareus is better than Star and Sammy is better than any receiver we have had since. Dareus was a slacker and is not better than Star. He would be if he wanted to actually use his talent. And I wish Sammyvwas still here, although injuries have prevented him from doing that well.
Royale with Cheese Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chemical said: Sammy has what would have been the catch to send them to the super bowl if Dee Ford hadn’t been lined up “Offside” Dareus is better than Star and Sammy is better than any receiver we have had since. Great. So Sammy's 70-80 catches in the last 2 seasons from the two most high powered offenses....he's earned his contract. So you're saying we should have kept Dareus? Since signing his huge deal in 2015....he's had 8 sacks. He had 29 in his first 4 seasons. I wonder what happened?
Patrick Duffy Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: you don't need to see the future to know as has been pointed out, their career stats are far from overwhelming. Will the unit be improved yes. If Allan also continues to improve this group could look much better. I'm a believer that more often than people realize the QB makes the WR's look special so if Allan is the real deal, we may be just one true WR away from an elite group. Their career stats mean absolutely nothing to the point I was making. Nothing at all. My point again (if you failed to read the original post I quoted) was that the poster stated the Bills WR core are the bottom of the league, stating as if it is a fact as of right now. Last year maybe they were toward the bottom, but nobody can say they are the bottom now when the season hasn't started. The bolded that you posted here, you clearly state they will be improved and in which case I agree they absolutely "should". So there you go, if they are improved, then how can they be bottom, and again the season hasn't started yet? That's my point. We can all try to predict the future, but stating it as if it has already happened is silly. Edited June 14, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy
Royale with Cheese Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chemical said: Oh really? We would be mad that we couldn’t “afford” that star contract and John Brown? No....we would have been mad at paying a guy as much as Dareus to only be a run stuffer.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: No....we would have been mad at paying a guy as much as Dareus to only be a run stuffer. Haha why aren’t you mad at the star contract then? 1
oldmanfan Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: Haha why aren’t you mad at the star contract then? I'm not. I wouldn't be mad if Dareus had it either. They need a space eater in the middle of the D line. Dareus was a slacker though. Star does his job as unglamorous as it is. 1
Shaw66 Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: No, Belichick and Carroll and Kubiak all fit the description just fine. Nothing was said in the original description Scott proposed about whether guys were out of the head coaching ranks for several years. Typical that the already spectacularly restrictive description isn't producing results you like, so you just add in yet another condition and pretend it had been there all along. That they couldn't get a head coaching job after their earlier regimes made massive mistakes by firing them doesn't mean those weren't massive mistakes. And you also ignore the argument he ignored. For the same reason, that the results don't fit your preferred narrative. So, for you too ... Now try and find guys who fit [Scott's proposed] requirements ... "a GOOD HC coach who was mediocre for 4 straight years ... and succeeded ... in the modern day NFL" ... and was kept around longer and failed? There aren't many because of the quick trigger fingers that modern management has adopted. So we've got four examples of success and not all that many examples of failure. It's a strategy that has worked out a good percentage of the few times it's been tried, even in the modern NFL. And you should probably restrict that even further the way you're trying to do when looking at successes. You only want to look at guys who did not have time off from HCing after being fired for doing poorly? Fine. You have to apply the same requirement to failures too, then. How many coaches fit the original requirements plus your new one ... who then failed. The answer will be zero, won't it? If I've missed someone let me know!! Which would mean that even if we go along with your nonsensical extra condition and throw out Belichick and Carroll, leaving only Garrett as a success in the modern game ... would then leave ... who? ... as a failure. In other words, a good strategy that's gone one for one in the modern game, but still isn't being used by owners unable to marshal the patience for it. Thanks for defending me, Thurm. I gave up because its hopeless arguing about it. Even if it WERE true, which it isn't, that no coach has ever been mediocre or worse for four years and then succeeded, it wouldn't prove anything about McDermott. The sample size of previous head coaches who fit the criteria is too small to establish any kind of hard and fast rule. They are literally making up stuff to prove they're correct. Point is, they're arguing a point that can be known only looking backward. McD is not a.success until he is one, but the fact that he may not have succeeded yet doesn't mean he won't succeed. They have an opinion, and you and I can respect that. I won't waste my time on people who can't or won't acknowledge that they are only opinions and are not certainties.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Their career stats mean absolutely nothing to the point I was making. Nothing at all. My point again (if you failed to read the original post I quoted) was that the poster stated the Bills WR core are the bottom of the league, stating as if it is a fact as of right now. Last year maybe they were toward the bottom, but nobody can say they are the bottom now when the season hasn't started. The bolded that you posted here, you clearly state they will be improved and in which case I agree they absolutely "should". So there you go, if they are improved, then how can they be bottom, and again the season hasn't started yet? That's my point. We can all try to predict the future, but stating it as if it has already happened is silly. So are you saying that if they are not ranked #32,, they can't be bottom. IMO and like ly the opinion of most people any unit ranked below say 25 is at the bottom of the league. So it's quite possible they can improve and still be in the bottom and even if they moved from 25 to 20 that's improved, but still not impressive. But again with adecent year from Allan, they could move up maybe 15 or so. So if no one can predict the future and it's silly to even talk about it according to you, why do NFL GM's coaches, scouts, etc even bother to have a draft every year. Why not just pick names out of a hat and that's the team you go to? Would save teams a huge amount of money as apparently no one has any idea what's going to happen anyway. 1
K-9 Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 45 minutes ago, Chemical said: Sammy has what would have been the catch to send them to the super bowl if Dee Ford hadn’t been lined up “Offside” Dareus is better than Star and Sammy is better than any receiver we have had since. No doubt both are better, but other than three really poor games against the run last year, we didn’t miss Dareus much, if at all. Sammy would have helped, perhaps. But he’s simply not the same receiver he was prior to his foot issues. He is just not as explosive out of his breaks at the moment. And that’s the key to his game. But they aren’t better for this team and it’s vision going forward. I get that you don’t agree with GMs and coaches who have their own preferences and prerogatives that don’t align with yours, but it’s their show, regardless. Can you at least understand why they made those personnel choices? 1 1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, K-9 said: No doubt both are better, but other than three really poor games against the run last year, we didn’t miss Dareus much, if at all. Sammy would have helped, perhaps. But he’s simply not the same receiver he was prior to his foot issues. He is just not as explosive out of his breaks at the moment. And that’s the key to his game. But they aren’t better for this team and it’s vision going forward. I get that you don’t agree with GMs and coaches who have their own preferences and prerogatives that don’t align with yours, but it’s their show, regardless. Can you at least understand why they made those personnel choices? As as soon as we traded Dareus we were gashed on the ground for 3 straight weeks. I guess I can see their logic but of course I don’t agree with it. It’s just too hard to keep up with all the other teams in the league when you trade good young players away for draft picks that might turn into good young players. With each trade/ lack of QB selection in 2017, I was basically saying “ok, I don’t agree with it but hope it works out” here we are two years later with the 31st ranked offense while Mahomes and Watson are stars. I guess we will see now that their self-Imposed cap restrictions are lifted, but it’s very reasonable for any fan to be impatient at this point. Btw, Dareus/Sammy/Darby all have been to the championship game at least. 1
oldmanfan Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, Chemical said: As as soon as we traded Dareus we were gashed on the ground for 3 straight weeks. I guess I can see their logic but of course I don’t agree with it. It’s just too hard to keep up with all the other teams in the league when you trade good young players away for draft picks that might turn into good young players. With each trade/ lack of QB selection in 2017, I was basically saying “ok, I don’t agree with it but hope it works out” here we are two years later with the 31st ranked offense while Mahomes and Watson are stars. I guess we will see now that their self-Imposed cap restrictions are lifted, but it’s very reasonable for any fan to be impatient at this point. Btw, Dareus/Sammy/Darby all have been to the championship game at least. You're not implying any of them were pivotal to their teams being the championship game are you?
Patrick Duffy Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: So are you saying that if they are not ranked #32,, they can't be bottom. IMO and like ly the opinion of most people any unit ranked below say 25 is at the bottom of the league. So it's quite possible they can improve and still be in the bottom and even if they moved from 25 to 20 that's improved, but still not impressive. But again with adecent year from Allan, they could move up maybe 15 or so. So if no one can predict the future and it's silly to even talk about it according to you, why do NFL GM's coaches, scouts, etc even bother to have a draft every year. Why not just pick names out of a hat and that's the team you go to? Would save teams a huge amount of money as apparently no one has any idea what's going to happen anyway. OMG wow, okay one last time here. I am saying, you can not say that the WR core is the bottom of the league right now and the season hasn't started yet. Pretty simple. And AGAIN, yes predicting is fine, no problem. But when a prediction is stated as a fact based upon a football season that hasn't begun yet is silly. This isn't hard to understand. The point is simple, we DO NOT know if they will be the bottom of the league until the season gets almost over with. Edited June 14, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy
GunnerBill Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Then you’ve never seen a career cut drastically short. I have. But that is a risk for every player in the NFL who suits up every single Sunday (or Monday or Thursday). It is no more a risk for those two than it is Josh Allen (fate forbid) or Tom Brady. 1
Nihilarian Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: The "core" of the "corps" certainly isn't impressive. Beasley and Brown are supposed to turn this unit around and in their 12 NFL seasons they've combined for just 3 where they've surpassed the very modest 700 yards receiving level. You don't need to see the future............just look at their careers............it's not like they've been even remotely consistent or reliable producers. Foster was the key to the Bills WR corps being functional in the second half and the burden........for better or worse..........is likely on him to elevate this group into respectability. Man, all this negativity... all these negative waves... I look at this years receiver corps and see a kid who only had three game starts last season, but put the fear of god into defensive secondaries with his deep speed. One guy like that is nothing and with two it helps ensure one should get open... and now the Bills have three WRs with 4.5 or better speed in Zay Jones, John Brown and Robert Foster. With Allen's arm it means defenses will need to cover the entire field. Deep bombs everywhere! I look at Cole Beasley and see first down after first down whenever needed. The Bills version of Wes Welker, Julian Edleman! Plus, they have Duke Williams and David Sills who are both 6'3'' and 225, 211 lbs respectively, both big tall red zone targets. Williams brings experience to the equation and is a big, powerful WR. Not to mention new TEs in Dawson Knox and Tommy Sweeny to go along with Jason Croom, Tyler Kroft. I look at the Buffalo Bills receiving corps and see a ton of possibilities, opportunities in the passing game for Josh Allen to go to. Now look at the upgrades to the offensive line to realize that this season Allen should have the time to throw whatever pass is needed. Right now I see no weak links anywhere on the line. Not like in the past where that right side was so susceptible to a pass rush at both RG, RT. By the same token the Bills run game by the RBs should be greatly improved with both Shady and Gore taking turns killing the defense now that they will have actual holes to run through. I look at the 2019 Buffalo Bills offense and see a top 10-15 unit or better... along with reversing last seasons record to 10-6. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: So you're saying we should have kept Dareus? Since signing his huge deal in 2015....he's had 8 sacks. He had 29 in his first 4 seasons. I wonder what happened? Star Lotulelei had by far his worst season in the NFL last year. At this stage of his career.....and still at the beginning of his Bills contract......he couldn't get 8 sacks in 4 seasons if the NCAA re-instated his eligibility. Dareus also had his worst year as a pro but significantly outproduced Lotulelei........and Dareus played at about the same level as 2017 Star Lotulelei......a level that got Star $26M+ guaranteed from the Bills. McBeane's Lotulelei contract is one of the worst in Bills history. 3 1 1
Augie Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Man, all this negativity... all these negative waves... I look at this years receiver corps and see a kid who only had three game starts last season, but put the fear of god into defensive secondaries with his deep speed. One guy like that is nothing and with two it helps ensure one should get open... and now the Bills have three WRs with 4.5 or better speed in Zay Jones, John Brown and Robert Foster. With Allen's arm it means defenses will need to cover the entire field. Deep bombs everywhere! I look at Cole Beasley and see first down after first down whenever needed. The Bills version of Wes Welker, Julian Edleman! Plus, they have Duke Williams and David Sills who are both 6'3'' and 225, 211 lbs respectively, both big tall red zone targets. Williams brings experience to the equation and is a big, powerful WR. Not to mention new TEs in Dawson Knox and Tommy Sweeny to go along with Jason Croom, Tyler Kroft. I look at the Buffalo Bills receiving corps and see a ton of possibilities, opportunities in the passing game for Josh Allen to go to. Now look at the upgrades to the offensive line to realize that this season Allen should have the time to throw whatever pass is needed. Right now I see no weak links anywhere on the line. Not like in the past where that right side was so susceptible to a pass rush at both RG, RT. By the same token the Bills run game by the RBs should be greatly improved with both Shady and Gore taking turns killing the defense now that they will have actual holes to run through. I look at the 2019 Buffalo Bills offense and see a top 10-15 unit or better... along with reversing last seasons record to 10-6. It’s hard to argue the weapons and the OLine are not greatly improved. Some people here will continue to harp on the negative. If we win the Super Bowl, but don't cover the spread, some will complain. That’s just how it is...... Do we still have some work to do? I’m sure we do, but I just want to keep seeing progress, and I think we will.
3rdand12 Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: You're not implying any of them were pivotal to their teams being the championship game are you? nice retort Pops : )
Nihilarian Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Sammy had 114 yards on 8 targets in the championship game.... It's just a matter of staying healthy with him. There is no perhaps. He'd be the best WR on this roster by a mile. Just a few short seasons after blasting former Bills general manager Doug Whaley for making him look bad due to poor production relative to his draft position, Watkins is content with being the 97th-most targeted receiver in the NFL (47). Watkins recently opened up about how his outlook on the game has changed drastically since joining Los Angeles, explaining that he is more team-oriented than he was during his tenure in Buffalo. “I was a statistics, an ego guy in Buffalo. I was all about numbers and it wasn’t healthy for me, my teammates, or my coaches,” Watkins said, via the Rams official site. “So now I really focus on my teammates being happy and winning. And so far it’s been going well.” “I felt like I was consumed, and I was angry,” Watkins said. “It was affecting my relationships with the coaches and with the players. I wanted to be great so bad, but I was also selfish, too. Because there were some games that we won and I didn’t get the ball, and I was upset.” https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/01/rams-sammy-watkins-cant-stop-talking-selfish-he-was-bills/ 10 games, 9 game starts with KC, 40 rec for 519 yards, 3 TDs all for the mere price an average annual salary of $16,000,000. per. 2 1
oldmanfan Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said: nice retort Pops : ) I wish Sammy was still here. But Dareus? No thanks.
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