oldmanfan Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 49 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Dude said Dick Vermeil and Pete Carroll. They played Jauron Ball on their way to a 9-7 record and backing into the playoffs. That was a mediocre team at best, getting blown out numerous times along the way. Im not implying they won't succeed. I'm implying that if progress isn't seen this year then YOU MOST LIKELY NEVER WILL SEE IT based on what the history of the league has told us. And there you go again. Since you like capitals after 17 years THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS. They put themselves into position and they got in. But you insist on making that negative. So I'll ask again: why? Why do you refuse to answer?
ColoradoBills Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, ScottLaw said: If the Bills don't improve this year and aren't winning consistently by year 4 you really think McBeane are still here for year 5? It's just the way of the league. You don't get 5 years and rarely 4 to prove yourself as a HC/GM duo if you aren't winning in year 3 or at least headed in that direction for year 4..... and rightfully so. In your opinion what is the minimum number of wins in 2019 for McDermott to keep his job? If he does what is the minimum number of wins for 2010?
LSHMEAB Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: That's not to say we don't have a pile of those "negative outcome investors"........you just have it backwards........we have a ton of folks who are already making excuses for another non-contending season. Yeah. THAT is a weird phenomenon. I would think if one were entirely sold on the regime, they'd be expecting a big season. I'm cautiously optimistic knowing it all starts and ends with Allen. If I fully believed in the regime, I'd be much more bullish. 13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Agreed that their win record will depend greatly on Allen. But if they get the rest of the team functioning very well even if Allen does poorly, they could be here for a while. Good post, but I respectfully disagree here. Allen playing poorly could very well cause Pegs to get reeeeally itchy. The top ten QB almost always outlasts the FO/HC.
oldmanfan Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Yeah. THAT is a weird phenomenon. I would think if one were entirely sold on the regime, they'd be expecting a big season. I'm cautiously optimistic knowing it all starts and ends with Allen. If I fully believed in the regime, I'd be much more bullish. Good post, but I respectfully disagree here. Allen playing poorly could very well cause Pegs to get reeeeally itchy. The top ten QB almost always outlasts the FO/HC. Allen is the key. I don't think anyone on this board would say different. I like what the regime is doing in terms of setting the culture they want, clearing cap space, etc. But like any pro team their plan has to produce tangible results. To me that is a winning record this year and hopefully playoffs and playoffs next year. Terry and Kim?? Not sure. Now as I said above they could go 10-6 the next two years and just miss the playoffs and I think everyone including Terry would be fine. But if they go say 5-11 for two seasons they'd probably be gone. Bottom line: if the plan they want to implement works they're heros, and if it doesn't they're fired. As they should be either way. Rather than assuming they won't succeed though, I'll just watch and see what happens. 1
Gugny Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: So you made up a convoluted question that was negated, and you response is to now just make up another question instead of acknowledging the first was negated? Okay. Now instead of 3 years it's 5 years? My answer is it depends: if they are 10-6 the next two years and just get nosed out in a tiebreaker for the playoffs then they should stay. Now answer my question: why do you make up questions and scenarios and change them around to try and figure out a way to have the Bills be bad and cause the HC and GM to be fired?
K-9 Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Just trying to keep up with the the apologists here at TSW. Who has apologized for what and to whom? It does sound like you need an apology, though. From the Bills organization, apparently. You should write them a letter demanding one. In the meantime, can you stop with the specious argument about what “league history has taught us” about McDermott if he doesn’t win in year three? It may be fun to compare him to prior coaches and it may even be interesting, but there is no predictive value in their respective experiences as they’d are all absolutely unique. Other than the title “head coach” there is simply no correlation between there own unique circumstances with their past teams and McDermott with his. It’s a baseless argument.
ColoradoBills Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Just trying to keep up with the the apologists here at TSW. I think at a minimum 8 wins and the blow outs to be done with(assuming Allen is healthy)..... just way too many ass kickings by opponents the last two years. Oh, and a competitve game against BB and the Pats would be nice. Maybe even a TD by the offense when the game is still within reach.? 2010? What? I would think that 8 wins is reasonable for people starting to talk "hot seat". It is a good point about blow outs and Pats*. I can see that if your a fan. I think if your Pegula and maybe a little tired of turnover it could be a little lower. I typed 2010 but meant 2020. If only 8 wins in 2019 does the number have to go up in 2020? Personally so far I like the Beane/McDermott combo and want to make sure they get a decent shot at turning this thing around. Josh Allen being 1 year behind in the "process" kind of skews the timeline a bit for me. I have to see how this whole season progresses before I reload my thinking.
K-9 Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: It's pretty simple. Year 3 is a BIG year in showing progress throughout the league. It is a measuring stick for success. My point is if progress isn't seen, chances are the Process is *****. Your point is obvious, no need to explain. Is anyone actually arguing that this isn’t an important year to show progress? But you can’t trot out the records of previous head coaches and offer them up as some kind of proof source of predictability for McDermott. It just doesn’t work that way.
Boca BIlls Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: Your point is obvious, no need to explain. Is anyone actually arguing that this isn’t an important year to show progress? But you can’t trot out the records of previous head coaches and offer them up as some kind of proof source of predictability for McDermott. It just doesn’t work that way. That is how Scotty works
K-9 Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: That is how Scotty works It will be better when he gets that personal letter of apology from the Bills organization.
Patrick Duffy Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Oh I think they get a 4th year unless this year is an utter disaster. If they aren't a Super Bowl contender in 2020 I'd be pretty disappointed. I've seen posts of people saying these guys get 5 years no matter what. It doesn't work that way. Where? I haven't seen that. I have seen 5 years with "some amount" of progress. But I haven't seen 5 years "no matter what". Unless I missed it somehow, but I doubt anyone would say they get 5 years no matter the outcome, but then again some will say some silly stuff at times. Anyways just asking where you saw 5 years no matter what. Edited June 13, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy
K-9 Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Oh I think they get a 4th year unless this year is an utter disaster. If they aren't a Super Bowl contender in 2020 I'd be pretty disappointed. I've seen posts of people saying these guys get 5 years no matter what. It doesn't work that way. All depends on the nature of any stagnation or regression. But I’m utterly shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to learn that if they aren’t a Super Bowl contender in 2020 that you’d be disappointed. Seems so out of character for you.
Patrick Duffy Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I know. Fans here seem to think It takes 4-5 years just to build a playoff team.? Just read the board. Again,I have, quite thoroughly and have not seen that. Which is why I think your full of ***** or you may have misread. As I stated, I have seen 4 to 5 years with some amount of success, not 5 years no matter what. That's basically saying they get 5 years even if they go 1-15 for 5 years. Which is absurd. Edited June 13, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy
K-9 Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I know. Fans here seem to think It takes 4-5 years just to build a playoff team.? Just read the board. Well, I personally think they are at least two years away. So that’s four. I guess I’m one of them. That’s just being realistic. But instead of insisting on wallowing in the misery of every mistake made in the past, I’ll look forward and judge this administration when their final chapter is written. Whenever that may be.
Nihilarian Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I'm out. Sorry I got into this. I won't again. I bailed awhile ago on this... People must be bored.
Patrick Duffy Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, I personally think they are at least two years away. So that’s four. I guess I’m one of them. That’s just being realistic. But instead of insisting on wallowing in the misery of every mistake made in the past, I’ll look forward and judge this administration when their final chapter is written. Whenever that may be. 4 to 5 years to build a playoff team, or 5 years no matter what? lol 1
Augie Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, I personally think they are at least two years away. So that’s four. I guess I’m one of them. That’s just being realistic. But instead of insisting on wallowing in the misery of every mistake made in the past, I’ll look forward and judge this administration when their final chapter is written. Whenever that may be. So.....if they miss playoffs this year with 8-9 wins, and make it the next......they will have made the playoffs in 50% of seasons in their first four years - after a 17 year drought! Sure, lets get rid of the bums (said the knee jerk negative Nellie crowd). Relax and hope we see what looks like progress. 1
ColoradoBills Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Oh I think they get a 4th year unless this year is an utter disaster. If they aren't a Super Bowl contender in 2020 I'd be pretty disappointed. I've seen posts of people saying these guys get 5 years no matter what. It doesn't work that way. All Division winners (except for the few examples of extremely poor divisions) are Super Bowl contenders in my mind. The 4 that get byes are what teams aspire to. A 2020 Bills push to be in contention to win the division for me is what separates the Beane/McDermott litmus test. 1
K-9 Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: All Division winners (except for the few examples of extremely poor divisions) are Super Bowl contenders in my mind. The 4 that get byes are what teams aspire to. A 2020 Bills push to be in contention to win the division for me is what separates the Beane/McDermott litmus test. Winning the division has to be the first goal every year. It sucks for us that we’ve been in a division with the greatest coach and QB of their era, but that still has to be goal one. Every year. 1
Augie Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 As I posted elsewhere....... I don’t mean to take this out of context, but the Bills have been in the unfortunate position of being in something like a 4 team division of basketball back in the UCLA Bruins/John Wooden days. Yeah, we can complain that they keep beating us, but let’s remember they beat EVERYONE more often than not. All too frequently in the Super Bowl. It’s been a horrible stretch. Time for a new era. I like where we stand at this point. Time will tell.
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