OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I'm in the "playoffs now" mode. I think they've made the improvements they needed to make to make this team competitive. They've put better talent on the offensive line to help Allen and got another speedster to stretch the field. We should see improvements in both the run/pass game. Our defense is playoff caliber...I think we're just another edge rusher away from being great. It's time for our offense to make the next step. If Josh Allen can be a 24 TD/10 INT, 3,500 yard passing, 500 rushing....we should be in good shape I think. ...have to agree it is a reasonable objective, but keeping in mind not all objectives are met.......whole bunch of newness from personnel (who are the final 53?) as well as coaches....something like 10-6 for WC spot, victory in WC game and a tough loss in the next round would be job well done IMO...9-7 with a near miss, but with significant upside shown is a possibility.........and would SURELY bring out the TBD "Fire McBeane...Fire McDermott...Fire the Damn Beerman..." Gang in short order with their regurgitating diatribe.....
GunnerBill Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, K-9 said: So it’s all about no regression in the win column without extenuating circumstances then. As a fan, I can respect that. As someone who realizes football administrations don’t think like fans, I think McBeane get a 3rd year, regardless. But it is actually a 4th year. I don't see any evidence so far that the Pegulas are patient administrator owners. 1
Shaw66 Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Carroll and Vermeil were highly successful college coaches. Carroll also took teams to the playoffs in both his second and third NFL coaching seasons (in NE). Pete Carroll failed miserably in New York and then took a successful Patriots teams led by Bill Parcells and made it continually worse for three consecutive years before being run out of the NFL altogether. He was universally viewed as a failure of a head coach. Which was we were talking about.
K-9 Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But it is actually a 4th year. I don't see any evidence so far that the Pegulas are patient administrator owners. I disagree it’s a 4th year for the administration. For the Pegulas, certainly. For Mc Beane and the vast staff tneh assembled in football ops, it’s year 3 coming up. Regarding the patience of the Pegulas, I agree. But unless it’s an absolute train wreck with regression everywhere and not just in the win column, accompanied by the childish infighting and bickering we saw when their first coaching hire went south, my hunch is they will get more time. Hopefully, it’s a moot point come season’s end, but we are a team still in transition with a ton of new moving parts that need to coalesce on and off the field, so I expect some bumps in the road along the way. Edit: got my thoughts crossed on the Pegulas and McBeane. Edited June 7, 2019 by K-9
GunnerBill Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Hopefully it works better than Jauron's culture based re-build but that probably comes down ENTIRELY to Josh Allen. A lot comes down to Allen. Definitely. And some to the talent on the rest of the roster. I think the Bills' talent evaluations both draft and FA in the Dickie J years were questionable at best.
Royale with Cheese Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...have to agree it is a reasonable objective, but keeping in mind not all objectives are met.......whole bunch of newness from personnel (who are the final 53?) as well as coaches....something like 10-6 for WC spot, victory in WC game and a tough loss in the next round would be job well done IMO...9-7 with a near miss, but with significant upside shown is a possibility.........and would SURELY bring out the TBD "Fire McBeane...Fire McDermott...Fire the Damn Beerman..." Gang in short order with their regurgitating diatribe..... I'm thinking 10-6 too. 9-7 would be meh....it's time to start being past the "in the hunt" in the last 1/4 of the season.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I'm thinking 10-6 too. 9-7 would be meh....it's time to start being past the "in the hunt" in the last 1/4 of the season. ...I agree bud......but at the same time, we should consider realistic possibilities because of the substantial newness......17 years of "we're going....playoffs!....SB bound!...14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 11-5, 10-6 etc, "the schneid is over" et al is so old , it's available on 8-track and cassette...probably on Victrola.......
Royale with Cheese Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...I agree bud......but at the same time, we should consider realistic possibilities because of the substantial newness......17 years of "we're going....playoffs!....SB bound!...14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 11-5, 10-6 etc, "the schneid is over" et al is so old , it's available on 8-track and cassette...probably on Victrola.......
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: ...LMAO!...yet another perfectly good pair of Depends down the drain (dammit)...............
Royale with Cheese Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...LMAO!...yet another perfectly good pair of Depends down the drain (dammit)............... We seriously need to know what winning a Super Bowl feels like as fans. *****....I want it mine now! 1
Shaw66 Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 6 hours ago, eball said: I don't think it's "playoffs or bust" -- I think it's a better than .500 record, the elimination of "bad losses" like we've seen the past couple of years, and offensive statistics that aren't mired at the bottom of the league. Those are my criteria, anyway. I didn't see this before, but this is what I think reasonable progress is. Anything short of this and you at least have to ask what's going on. I've said all along I think playoffs is possible, but a lot of things have to go right, particularly the oline coming together and Allen making good progress over last season. I won't be happy with 9-7 and no playoffs, but I won't be disappointed. I believe McBeane are doing what they said they'd do: build a foundation for long term success. They need one more round of free agency and one more draft. When they have those additional players they will have talent they should win with. If the Bill's are around .500 this year, 2020 is the hotseat year for McBeane. 1
dave mcbride Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Pete Carroll failed miserably in New York and then took a successful Patriots teams led by Bill Parcells and made it continually worse for three consecutive years before being run out of the NFL altogether. He was universally viewed as a failure of a head coach. Which was we were talking about. He was 6-5 in NY and the team cratered after Dan Marino's fake spike. With regard to NE, he took over an 11-5 team that had gone 6-10 the year before. More importantly, his QB was Drew Bledsoe, probably the most overrated big-name QB in NFL history. 1
eball Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I didn't see this before, but this is what I think reasonable progress is. Anything short of this and you at least have to ask what's going on. I've said all along I think playoffs is possible, but a lot of things have to go right, particularly the oline coming together and Allen making good progress over last season. I won't be happy with 9-7 and no playoffs, but I won't be disappointed. I believe McBeane are doing what they said they'd do: build a foundation for long term success. They need one more round of free agency and one more draft. When they have those additional players they will have talent they should win with. If the Bill's are around .500 this year, 2020 is the hotseat year for McBeane. I have said pretty consistently that this is the year for the Bills to show significant progress, and then in 2020 they begin league domination. I'm only half-kidding -- it pretty much depends upon them being right with Allen -- but I like the way Beane approaches roster building and I like the way McD gets his players to buy in. I really need to see some gameday "stuff" this year that shows me McD and his staff "get it." 1
LSHMEAB Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 10 hours ago, SoTier said: I'm not sure what you consider a failure. Obviously, you have much more tolerance for poor performance than I do, because going 6-10 the season after a playoff appearance screams "FAIL!" to me. IMO, McDermott has completely used up any and all of his free passes. Because of league parity imposed by the salary cap, good coaching is essential. Part of being a good NFL HC is hiring good assistants. That's why certain HCs produce winners anywhere and everywhere they go and create "coaching trees" of former assistants who go on to become good HCs on their own. McDermott's assistants on offense and special teams have been disasters. That's what happens in almost any endeavor when you rely on nepotism to fill key positions. Many of his personnel decisions have been questionable at best ... Peterman and Jones from the 2017 draft are most notable. McDermott puts a better product on the field -- ie, minimum 8 wins -- or he deserves to be unemployed for 2020. As for Beane, at least he's not saddled with the 2017 draft but the only thing that he's done positive is go "all in" on a QB. His fate will be determined by Josh Allen's success or failure, and at least he has tried to improve Allen's supporting cast this season which gives the kid at least a chance to succeed. This. There seems to a really strange dynamic going on here. There are fans who claim to be optimistic, yet expect or at least would accept a 7-9 season. Because winning is "right around the corner." Never seen anything like it. The time to win is NOW. 17 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Giving regimes three years or less hasn’t worked out well for this franchise. That's because they hired the wrong people, not because they let them go too early. 8 hours ago, HappyDays said: I hate the discussion about "if" the Bills go 6-10. I think everyone here agrees anything under 9-7 will be a disappointment. Unless Allen gets injured, if they go 6-10 the process has failed. Yeah. I don't know why this is such a topic of discussion. It's almost like those who want to believe in the regime are willing to wait forever, but have unexpressed doubts. Show us the baby.
oldmanfan Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 53 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: This. There seems to a really strange dynamic going on here. There are fans who claim to be optimistic, yet expect or at least would accept a 7-9 season. Because winning is "right around the corner." Never seen anything like it. The time to win is NOW. That's because they hired the wrong people, not because they let them go too early. Yeah. I don't know why this is such a topic of discussion. It's almost like those who want to believe in the regime are willing to wait forever, but have unexpressed doubts. Show us the baby. The time to get better is now. The time to WIN as you put it may or may not be now. As much as I like Allen he is still a second year QB with a lot to learn. I anticipate somewhere between 8-8 to 10-6. The O line should be better, the D should be solid. If Allen makes quicker progress the prospects for a playoff season should be bright.
LSHMEAB Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The time to get better is now. The time to WIN as you put it may or may not be now. As much as I like Allen he is still a second year QB with a lot to learn. I anticipate somewhere between 8-8 to 10-6. The O line should be better, the D should be solid. If Allen makes quicker progress the prospects for a playoff season should be bright. That's probably fair, but I've watched all 5 QB's drafted in 2016 and 2017 make the playoffs in their second season. Why not us? Why not now? The life of a Bills fan I suppose. Edited June 7, 2019 by LSHMEAB
oldmanfan Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: That's probably fair, but I've watched all 5 QB's drafted in 2016 and 2017 make the playoffs in their second season. Why not us? Why not now? The life of a Bills fan I suppose. I just answered that question. If Allen progresses well we should If not we won't. And don't forget other teams with their young QBs don't play Brady twice a year. That's a roadblock for AFC East teams.
3rdand12 Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: We seriously need to know what winning a Super Bowl feels like as fans. *****....I want it mine now! 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I didn't see this before, but this is what I think reasonable progress is. Anything short of this and you at least have to ask what's going on. I've said all along I think playoffs is possible, but a lot of things have to go right, particularly the oline coming together and Allen making good progress over last season. I won't be happy with 9-7 and no playoffs, but I won't be disappointed. I believe McBeane are doing what they said they'd do: build a foundation for long term success. They need one more round of free agency and one more draft. When they have those additional players they will have talent they should win with. If the Bill's are around .500 this year, 2020 is the hotseat year for McBeane. I have said since they came on board as the Guys creating the Bills future state , progress each season and off season. I see that. Come game day they have plenty to clean up still with penalties and execution. expecting those to have improved this year. not getting "over run " by the run game ( looking at you Tremaine ) Play solid football for four quarters and the wins will come. But as McD said early on. gotta go through the Patriots to win the big one. simple as that. Beat the Pats 3 times in the season and we own our destiny. i approve of your post Shaw66
3rdand12 Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I think the season has to be an outright disaster for them to fire McBeane for the reasons BADOLL stated. The Pegulas would be hesitant to pull the trigger. I hope you are quite correct. might be on the five year plan. which i approve of. there is no possible way the team is less good than last season.
3rdand12 Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: It's just what I think the Pegulas are thinking. if they go 7-9 next year and start 2020 looking just as bad I can see them firing these guys before mid season. Point being they'll be on a very short leash if this year is another losing season. That is fine. like i mentioned. to not have a better season this year would surprise me. even if they get an injury bug ? the depth has improved. Allen is the turn key of course. Can he improve upon his perceived weaknesses ? he will get better protection. can he throw his receivers open in the short game?
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