John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[oldmanfan]

If the criteria being used to judge include either : 1.  Never making a mistake on a player move; i. e.  every draft pick or FA has to work out; or 2.  every decision made has to align with the desires of a specific fan or small group of fans, then no management team will ever be considered successful nor has ever been successful.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

If the criteria being used to judge include either : 1.  Never making a mistake on a player move; i. e.  every draft pick or FA has to work out; or 2.  every decision made has to align with the desires of a specific fan or small group of fans, then no management team will ever be considered successful nor has ever been successful.

 

...sounds like 32 GM firings and 32 HC firings annually will work.....SMH..........

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

ok. here's how i really can't take you seriously.

it's this suggestion that the "bills offense has gone from excellent to gawd-awful under McDermott."

 

you say this with a straight face?

 

the bills, only by virtue of LeSean McCoy, Eric Wood and Richie Incognito -- and a one-dimensional, running quarterback -- ranked 11th and 16th overall in net yards offense under Rex Ryan. but it had very little to do with passing. the bills ranked 27th and 30th behind the tyrod, and that's with a far more talented receiving core than what the team's had under McDermott.

 

oh, we can even go back to the magnificent Orton era, when the Bills finished 18th in yards passing and 26th in total yards.

what is this offensive juggernaut that you speak of that preceded McDermott. where were these receivers which during everyone's fantasy draft clamored they wanted to pick in the first round? pray tell, how often bills fans -- not you, of course -- celebrated 100 yard receiving games, 1,200 yard receiving seasons, and Tyrod firmly entrenched in teh 4,000-yard, 35-TD a season club.

 

you bring up Mike Tolbert and Chris Ivory, i'll counter with the unstoppable three-headed monster of Fred Jackson and Anthony Dixon and CJ Spiller in 2014 that inspired fear in every D-line they encountered. that was the year Hogan, who once played lacrosse, essentially clinched his spot on the wall of fame with 41 catches for 426 yards and a whopping total of four tds,

or how about we refer to the 2016 season, when Charles Clay led the team with 57 catches. and let's not forget Walt Powell. well, ok, let's.

 

however you want to put it, it's evidently clear how these Bills have certainly regressed.

 

oh, where have you gone Leonard Hankerson?

 

jw

 

 

 

 

 

The front office dedicated the offseason to improving the offense. The OL and to a lesser extent the receiving corps was strengthened, at least on paper. It's apparent that in the free agent market the theme of the organization was to put the young qb in a position to not only succeed but also to survive. There is no doubt that the wrestling coach's inclination is more toward the defense than the offense. And it is obvious that in taking the reigns this defensive coach's first priority was the defense. That shouldn't be surprising. But there is no debate that this offseason he and the GM were determined to thicken a very hollow offensive unit.

 

Our offense has been primitive for quite a while because of the decrepit caliber of our qbing. In an era of the modern NFL offenses that centered around the passing game our passing offense was rudimentary at best. For too long the Jauron mentality of football that didn't center around the qb influenced this franchise. 

 

Looking back and rating our offense of the recent past isn't an important issue, at least as I see it. The real issue is whether this regime did enough to upgrade the offense to give this team a better chance to compete. If the intended OL upgrades don't adequately materialize then this staff will have failed. 

[Gugny]

32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

My point all along was it could get A LOT worse than Tyrod Taylor at QB.

 

Yes, there's a far way to go down from 30th in the NFL.  And garbage time got the passing offense all the way up there.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Gugny

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, john wawrow said:

 

ok. here's how i really can't take you seriously.

it's this suggestion that the "bills offense has gone from excellent to gawd-awful under McDermott."

 

you say this with a straight face?

 

the bills, only by virtue of LeSean McCoy, Eric Wood and Richie Incognito -- and a one-dimensional, running quarterback -- ranked 11th and 16th overall in net yards offense under Rex Ryan. but it had very little to do with passing. the bills ranked 27th and 30th behind the tyrod, and that's with a far more talented receiving core than what the team's had under McDermott.

 

oh, we can even go back to the magnificent Orton era, when the Bills finished 18th in yards passing and 26th in total yards.

what is this offensive juggernaut that you speak of that preceded McDermott. where were these receivers which during everyone's fantasy draft clamored they wanted to pick in the first round? pray tell, how often bills fans -- not you, of course -- celebrated 100 yard receiving games, 1,200 yard receiving seasons, and Tyrod firmly entrenched in teh 4,000-yard, 35-TD a season club.

 

you bring up Mike Tolbert and Chris Ivory, i'll counter with the unstoppable three-headed monster of Fred Jackson and Anthony Dixon and CJ Spiller in 2014 that inspired fear in every D-line they encountered. that was the year Hogan, who once played lacrosse, essentially clinched his spot on the wall of fame with 41 catches for 426 yards and a whopping total of four tds,

or how about we refer to the 2016 season, when Charles Clay led the team with 57 catches. and let's not forget Walt Powell. well, ok, let's.

 

however you want to put it, it's evidently clear how these Bills have certainly regressed.

 

oh, where have you gone Leonard Hankerson?

 

jw

 

 

 

Like I said.........the 2016 Bills were 7th in the NFL in scoring with the fewest turnovers ever thru 15 games........and lead the NFL in rushing AND "big plays"(for the second straight season).

 

By any measure that is excellent performance.

 

All accomplished with Watkins injured and mostly unavailable until his Nov 27 return and Woods constantly in and out of the lineup with an assortment of injuries.    We got a lot of Robert Tate and even a desperation mid-week Percy Harvin signing and immediate insertion into the lineup in Seattle.   The WR corps was a sh*t show.

 

Big plays are runs over 10 yards and pass plays over 25..........in 2015 the Bills had A LOT more big pass plays because the receivers were healthier.......remember the deep tosses to Watkins in the Chiefs game and a few to Hogan, Harvin etc...........but either way they ended up with an almost identical amount in both years and were the only team over with 100 both times.

 

Here is a nugget of football knowledge I've learned.........it might even be axiom worthy............you can't throw a TD pass if you've already run the ball into the end zone.

 

There is this alternating possession thing, you know.

 

As for your take on the Marrone offense...........there was much consternation about Marrone plowing CJ Spiller up the middle over and over in 2013............but CJ did average 4.6 ypa that season.........the running game ranked very highly for attempts and total yardage.     They were not good but they were almost competent.

 

Last season was impressively bad offense for the first two months........by any Billsy standard ever.   The lone bright spot was Josh Allen running for 90-100 yards for a number of games........which is of course unsustainable over the course of a season.

 

And the last two years under McDermott LeSean McCoy has run for well below the league average per attempt(which is 4.2) and Ivory and Tolbert have provided 3.7 and 3.2 respectively so yeah the production and efficiency of the Bills run game has fallen off a cliff from the days of McCoy and Gillislee running for 5.4 and 5.7 respectively and piling up TD's.

 

Now as far as Leonard Hankerson goes................like I told folks when the Bills got him.............his arms are too long..........so his hands are too far from his brain.

 

Not unlike a lot of posters on this site.

[HappyDays]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think to this point it's more than ok to be critical of these guys.

 

Eh I really don't think so yet. This year, absolutely. They went for a full rebuild. It's crazy that we've won as many games as we have. But it's year 3 and the team is full of their guys. If they don't show improvement fans have a right to be upset.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I mean sure, if you want to look at it in a vacuum and not take into account other factors, such as the teams ability to run the ball so well(Tyrods ability to do this and improvise)... you think that contributed to the low passing yardage? 

 

 

Yeah there is this "I don't follow the NFL but Tyrod must have been the worst" narrative among some of our dimmer bulbs here on TSW.

 

In 29 games over 2015-2016 Tyrod accounted for 47 TD's.

 

The quintessential "game manager" Alex Smith produced 42 TD's.....in 31 games played....on a team that won 11 games both years.

 

Tyrod was plenty good enough in that offense to win a lot of games with a good defense..........they just didn't have one.

[Dr. Who]

27 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I mean sure, if you want to look at it in a vacuum and not take into account other factors, such as the teams ability to run the ball so well(Tyrods ability to do this and improvise)... you think that contributed to the low passing yardage? 

Big plays and Tyrod running was not a sustainable formula long-term. I always felt lucky rather than confident with that offense. I would not classify it as excellent, no matter what the numbers. The first half of last season the offense looked historically bad, but I feel better about the potential to turn that around because of the rebuilt o-line and Josh Allen. WR corps is probably only adequate now, but that's a step up too.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Dr. Who

[3rdand12]

51 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Eh I really don't think so yet. This year, absolutely. They went for a full rebuild. It's crazy that we've won as many games as we have. But it's year 3 and the team is full of their guys. If they don't show improvement fans have a right to be upset.

I really have no idea the etiquette here for when to start punching the current regime in the nuts for why Fans are not quite pleased.
Is their an actual protocol lol : )

Fans can always be upset and fans can always be hopeful i might guess.

they improved in some areas during the offseason.
Nice draft
and very nice FA work. I like who they kept as well.

 as long as i sense progress from these youngsters ?

 i will remain open minded.

[3rdand12]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I never felt confident in the offense with Tyrod as qb. Big plays and Tyrod running was not a sustainable formula long-term. I always felt lucky rather than confident with that offense. I would not classify it as excellent, no matter what the numbers. The first half of last season the offense looked historically bad, but I feel better about the potential to turn that around because of the rebuilt o-line and Josh Allen. WR corps is probably only adequate now, but that's a step up too.

Tyrod could not step up to the next level as a QB. His vision was not what is needed. and Coaches have to design the game around him.
Bills Today is a new era. figuratively and literally

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I never felt confident in the offense with Tyrod as qb. Big plays and Tyrod running was not a sustainable formula long-term. I always felt lucky rather than confident with that offense. I would not classify it as excellent, no matter what the numbers. The first half of last season the offense looked historically bad, but I feel better about the potential to turn that around because of the rebuilt o-line and Josh Allen. WR corps is probably only adequate now, but that's a step up too.

 

 

 

The chances are that in order for the 2019 Bills offense to be successful it will be all about running the ball and big plays.

 

If you are expecting Josh Allen to be a 65% passer I don't think that's a reasonable expectation.   He's a $1,000 Uber ride from that zip code.

 

I'm looking forward to Josh Allen being a guy who can rally his team from behind to victory................the most common complaint with Tyrod,  who "needed defenses to respect the run" for him to play at his best..........but it's not like Allen was about late game heroics last year.

 

Chance to bring the Bills back in the final drive on the road against the Dolphins...........throws a surprisingly short pass to Clay.........excuses were made but that was shocking.........and it was a loss.

 

Chance to bring the Bills to victory on the final drive against his rival Sam Darnold at home.........fail.

 

I'm by no means ascribing a lack of clutch gene to Allen the way fans did with Tyrod........but perhaps we should see it once before we feel assured about it?

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

The chances are that in order for the 2019 Bills offense to be successful it will be all about running the ball and big plays.

 

If you are expecting Josh Allen to be a 65% passer I don't think that's a reasonable expectation.   He's a $1,000 Uber ride from that zip code.

 

I'm looking forward to Josh Allen being a guy who can rally his team from behind to victory................the most common complaint with Tyrod,  who "needed defenses to respect the run" for him to play at his best..........but it's not like Allen was about late game heroics last year.

 

Chance to bring the Bills back in the final drive on the road against the Dolphins...........throws a surprisingly short pass to Clay.........excuses were made but that was shocking.........and it was a loss.

 

Chance to bring the Bills to victory on the final drive against his rival Sam Darnold at home.........fail.

 

I'm by no means ascribing a lack of clutch gene to Allen the way fans did with Tyrod........but perhaps we should see it once before we feel assured about it?

I'm not expecting 65%. I don't see why he can't approach 60% or learn to take the short throw and YAC judiciously, even with a proclivity to go long. Play action and a solid running game is the best way to nurture Allen's game. I surmise that is the plan. I think the comeback wins will come but that is all projection. Allen's arm talent and personality give him the potential to be a franchise qb. Tyrod was by nature too cautious and I think he maximized his talent as a top 20 qb on a good day, good backup most often.

[eball]

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

The chances are that in order for the 2019 Bills offense to be successful it will be all about running the ball and big plays.

 

If you are expecting Josh Allen to be a 65% passer I don't think that's a reasonable expectation.   He's a $1,000 Uber ride from that zip code.

 

I'm looking forward to Josh Allen being a guy who can rally his team from behind to victory................the most common complaint with Tyrod,  who "needed defenses to respect the run" for him to play at his best..........but it's not like Allen was about late game heroics last year.

 

Chance to bring the Bills back in the final drive on the road against the Dolphins...........throws a surprisingly short pass to Clay.........excuses were made but that was shocking.........and it was a loss.

 

Chance to bring the Bills to victory on the final drive against his rival Sam Darnold at home.........fail.

 

I'm by no means ascribing a lack of clutch gene to Allen the way fans did with Tyrod........but perhaps we should see it once before we feel assured about it?

 

I’m now convinced, more than ever, that your sole purpose on this site is to see what sort of rise you can get out of people. 

 

You won’t find this fish biting again. I’m glad you’ve got some big fans in ScottLaw and Bill from NYC. 

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I'm not expecting 65%. I don't see why he can't approach 60% or learn to take the short throw and YAC judiciously, even with a proclivity to go long. Play action and a solid running game is the best way to nurture Allen's game. I surmise that is the plan. I think the comeback wins will come but that is all projection. Allen's arm talent and personality give him the potential to be a franchise qb. Tyrod was by nature too cautious and I think he maximized his talent as a top 20 qb on a good day, good backup most often.

 

"Taking the short throw" is one of those things that sounds great on paper but if that's not your game you shouldn't sweat it.    

 

Tyrod averaged a ridiculous 8.0 yards per pass attempt in 2015 and all that was talked about was how he only threw deep balls and out routes but wouldn't take the short throws over the middle........the next two years he did just that.........proving critics wrong and losing the fanbase at the same time.

 

Lesson is.........play to your strengths.

 

It should have always been running game and play action(RPO or conventional) with Tyrod and I think that also fits Josh Allen best as well.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I’m now convinced, more than ever, that your sole purpose on this site is to see what sort of rise you can get out of people. 

 

You won’t find this fish biting again. I’m glad you’ve got some big fans in ScottLaw and Bill from NYC. 

 

 

 

I love me some Josh Allen........and I know it hurts you......but the truth is that he hasn't pee'd a drop of that franchise QB golden lager yet.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

My point all along was it could get A LOT worse than Tyrod Taylor at QB... I thought he'd fare better in Cleveland but as BADOLL said his deep ball and accuracy fell off. 

 

Still a much better option than Nate the great Or Anderson. I had no issues with the trade nor did I say Tyrod was a franchise QB.... I do recall many suggesting the team would win just as many as they did with Tyrod with the combo of Nate and Josh last season. Hell, many suggested Nate was better than Tyrod before last season.?

 

I never said you said he was a franchise QB.  You just went after everyone who had negative comments about him.  Made every excuse in the book.

 

Tyrod regressed every season.  The 2018 roster had less talent than the 2017 roster.  Are saying it’s not possible Tyrod wouldn’t have been on the same level production as the combo last year?  Tyrod was benched in Cleveland because 2 of his 4 starts he averaged less than 5 yards per pass and less than 40% completion percentage....with much more talent.

 

I think we have the same record with Taylor as we did with our combo last year because Allen progressed and won us some games with less talent.  That’s the important part, he got valuable on field experience.  I guess maybe Taylor wins one more game at best?  Guess we don’t get Ed Oliver then.

[Coach Tuesday]

Feels like the end of training camp around here - we need to start hitting other teams...

[LSHMEAB]

The problem with this debate, as far as I can tell, is that's it's turned into a question of whether or not Tyrod Taylor is a franchise QB. The answer is of course no. But that's not really the question. We're specifically talking about the two seasons under Rex when the overall offensive numbers were the best the Bills have had in a LONG time. Not saying much, but they also stacked up pretty well in a number of areas league wide. That OFFENSE(as a whole) was good enough to win 10+ games had Rex not destroyed the defense. With Tyrod and his overly cautious approach, they were limited and very unlikely to beat the top teams. None of that has anything to do with the fact that the offense was pretty good. Tyrod, through his own flaws becoming more prevalent along with a diminished supporting cast, regressed every season as a Bill.

 

The hope is that Allen develops his passing game well beyond that or we'll fall short yet again even if the defense and run game get going. Allen appears to have the arm strength, courage, and focus to become the type of passer that can actually win games against the elites. That being said, we have yet to see it come to fruition so it's a little early for some to be all in. We also, maybe more importantly, haven't seen Beane put together an entire offense unit with enough components to thrive. He's made a number of mistakes, but he's cut bait, and had the resources to finally get some of his guys. The book on Beane is simply incomplete. I'm encouraged by much of what's been done, but show me the results and I'll sing a different tune.

[Shaw66]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

"Taking the short throw" is one of those things that sounds great on paper but if that's not your game you shouldn't sweat it.    

 

Tyrod averaged a ridiculous 8.0 yards per pass attempt in 2015 and all that was talked about was how he only threw deep balls and out routes but wouldn't take the short throws over the middle........the next two years he did just that.........proving critics wrong and losing the fanbase at the same time.

 

Lesson is.........play to your strengths.

 

It should have always been running game and play action(RPO or conventional) with Tyrod and I think that also fits Josh Allen best as well.

You're truly wrong here.  It isn't "not his game."  It isn't a game he can't play.  It's just a game he hasn't played.  Allen is now being coached, maybe for the first time, to take the short throw.  His completion percentage will go up nicely this season because he will take the short throw. 

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You're truly wrong here.  It isn't "not his game."  It isn't a game he can't play.  It's just a game he hasn't played.  Allen is now being coached, maybe for the first time, to take the short throw.  His completion percentage will go up nicely this season because he will take the short throw. 

 

 

Everyone who has ever failed at something new had never done it before.

Edited June 6, 2019 by BADOLBILZ