Miami: Acquires QB Josh Rosen

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 hours ago, stuvian said:

those were the days

From the standpoint of a Marx Brothers movie, yes.  I miss ‘Cornpone’.  (But my aim is getting better...)

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2019/04/27/josh-rosen-receives-ovation-thanks-fans-larry-fitzgeralds-softball-game/3605463002/

 

 

 

D bag!  Steve Smith broke his teammates’ face.  Class. 

13 hours ago, Bills2ref said:

He absolutely, 100% did not write this. You don’t go from “nine mistakes made ahead of me” to being ok with what Arizona just did to him. 

Haha, omg, a guy was fired up after he got drafted! What a douche!  We would have loved if Allen said that.  

19 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You realize he has an agent and a PR team right?  Lmao.  Of course he has to try and save face.  He just got dumped and is going to a team that is going to be in position most likely to take the top QB in years draft.  He MUST dispel this cloud around him if he wants a legit shot in Miami.  

 

Every other time this guy has spoke he has hurt his image.  He has a team around him trying to help him succeed, guarantee they set this up, I mean someone is there with a camera and he likely prepared the statement.

 

And nothing wrong with that, it’s a good move.  But let’s not disregard everything to this point because he did this one video that was almost guaranteed to have been set up by his team. 

So he does this, it’s fake.  He simply unfollows a team that replaced him, douche bag.  Honestly, I don’t if a player has gotten hated on more for dumber stuff.  Hell, Joe Mixon and Jeffrey Simmons received less scrutiny (they were young!).  Nfl fans are weird.

[starrymessenger]

Finns will trade him for a 4th next year after they draft Tua. The football gods are sadistic and they hate this kid. 

Me I'm glad he's in the AFCE with Allen and Darnold. Makes for more interest and fun. I think he's got a chance to be pretty good in the right O. 

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

D bag!  Steve Smith broke his teammates’ face.  Class. 

Haha, omg, a guy was fired up after he got drafted! What a douche!  We would have loved if Allen said that.  

So he does this, it’s fake.  He simply unfollows a team that replaced him, douche bag.  Honestly, I don’t if a player has gotten hated on more for dumber stuff.  Hell, Joe Mixon and Jeffrey Simmons received less scrutiny (they were young!).  Nfl fans are weird.

 

More like has any rookie ever gotten so many excuses made for him?  

 

I know real people who know Rosen directly, and were around him a lot at various ages.  Not one of them thinks much of him as a person.  

 

So feel free to believe a setup statement with a camera crew and clearly prepared statement all you want.  I will rely on first hand information when cameras aren’t present.  

 

Good news for him, he gets a fresh start chance in Miami.  Bad news for him, the Dolphins are very likely to pick high enough to get top QB next years draft.  He has a very small window to convince Miami to stick with him and an established Vet still ahead of him on the depth chart.  So he needs to pop in all areas or maybe faced with the same scenario all over again next year.  

Edited April 28, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

More like has any rookie ever gotten so many excuses made for him?  

 

I know real people who know Rosen directly, and were around him a lot at various ages.  Not one of them thinks much of him as a person.  

 

So feel free to believe a setup statement with a camera crew and clearly prepared statement all you want.  I will rely on first hand information when cameras aren’t present.  

 

Good mews for him, he gets a fresh start chance in Miami.  Bad news for him, the Dolphins are very likely to pick high enough to get top QB next years draft.  He has a very small window to convince Miami to stick with him and an established Vet still ahead of him on the depth chart.  So he needs to pop in all areas or maybe faced with the same scenario all over again next year.  

Josh Allen? Remember he never threw a bad pass.  It was all his receivers fault!

 

and newsflash! Rookie QBs should have excuses made for them.  It’s the hardest position to learn in sports.  But you’re right. The Cards fires their OC and hired Byron Leftwich during the season; fires their head coach after the season; and drafted 3 receivers this draft because it was a good situation.  You know I think you’re a good poster but your bias is clouding your judgment here.  For some reason, you hate this dude.  And I think he can be really good but I would say the same thing for every rookie QB. I think it’s kinda dumb if you make concrete judgments of any rookie qb, especially in that tire fire situation.  The Bills look like the Warriors compared to the Cards.

Edited April 28, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Josh Allen?

 

What excuses has Allen had?  Everyone knows where Josh excelled at and where he needs to improve at.  

 

Difference is our staff and FO believe in Allen and the progress he has made and invested heavily into helping him develop.  AZ instead passed up on generational defensive talent to take a chance that Murray will become the shortest successful QB in NFL history instead of building up the team around the kid they traded up for and used a top 10 pick on a year ago.  Not to mention paid all that money to. 

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What excuses has Allen had?  Everyone knows where Josh excelled at and where he needs to improve at.  

 

Difference is our staff and FO believe in Allen and the progress he has made and invested heavily into helping him develop.  AZ instead passed up on generational defensive talent to take a chance that Murray will become the shortest successful QB in NFL history instead of building up the team around the kid they traded up for and used a top 10 pick on a year ago.  Not to mention paid all that money to. 

If Josh Allen was in Arizona, they would have done the same thing.  Allen and Rosen were essentially the same passing last year.

 

and it’s not even about comparing the two.  It’s about you pretending Rosen wasn’t in a crap situation because you don’t like him for whatever reason. But like I said before, I think you’re a good poster who is a bit of a homer and have a strong bias against Rosen.  So we’ll agree to disagree and we will get to see how these guys progress going forward. Enjoy your Sunday. 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If Josh Allen was in Arizona, they would have done the same thing.  Allen and Rosen were essentially the same passing last year.

 

and it’s not even about comparing the two.  It’s about you pretending Rosen wasn’t in a crap situation because you don’t like him for whatever reason. But like I said before, I think you’re a good poster who is a bit of a homer and have a strong bias against Rosen.  So we’ll agree to disagree and we will get to see how these guys progress going forward. Enjoy your Sunday. 

 

I think you’re a good poster as well, so no disrespect intended of course.  And we aren’t always going to agree and that’s all good bud.

 

But I disagree greatly that AZ would have done the same thing to Allen.  Their stat totals ended similar, but it was Allen that really showed significant improvements and it was Allen who the Cardinals coveted last year and were devastated reportedly when we took him.  

 

There is a reason Allen ended the year with so much buzz and Rosen didn’t.  Allen had an equally, and IMO slightly worse, scenario in terms of talent around him.  Fitz and Kirk were better receiving options.  David Johnson is better than McCoy at this stage of Shary’s career.  The OL was equally as bad but Allen has way more ability to make some thing happen athletically.  

 

Allen might have been even better in AZ last year than he was in Buffalo having some better skill players to work with.  

 

So respectfully disagree AZ still takes Murray if Allen was there.  Heck, they may not have even fired their coaching staff if Allen had brought the same late season excitement to that team as he did here.

 

At the very least, Allen did more with the same bad roster around him during the 2nd half the season.  Although I would actually say he did more with slightly less than Rosen had.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think you’re a good poster as well, so no disrespect intended of course.  And we aren’t always going to agree and that’s all good bud.

 

But I disagree greatly that AZ would have done the same thing to Allen.  Their stat totals ended similar, but it was Allen that really showed significant improvements and it was Allen who the Cardinals coveted last year and were devastated reportedly when we took him.  

 

There is a reason Allen ended the year with so much buzz and Rosen didn’t.  Allen had an equally, and IMO slightly worse, scenario in terms of talent around him.  Fitz and Kirk were better receiving options.  David Johnson is better than McCoy at this stage of Shary’s career.  The OL was equally as bad but Allen has way more ability to make some thing happen athletically.  

 

Allen might have been even better in AZ last year than he was in Buffalo having some better skill players to work with.  

 

So respectfully greatly disagree AZ still takes Murray if Allen was there.  Heck, they may morning have even fired their coaching staff if Allen had brought the same late season excitement to that team as he did here.

 

At the very least, Allen did more with the same bad roster around him during the 2nd half the season.  Although I would actually say he did more with slightly less than Rosen had.

Defenses ranking

Miami 29

NE 21

Jets 25

 

Seattle 16

Rams 19

49ers 13

 

so every NFC West defense was better than the best AFC East one.  Also, I’m sure it didn’t help Allen at all playing with the 2nd ranked defense while Rosen played with the 20th.  Again, it’s not a comparison but to put this all on Rosen is completely foolish.  His situation sucked and it was possibly the worst situation in the nfl for a Rookie qb.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2019/04/27/josh-rosen-receives-ovation-thanks-fans-larry-fitzgeralds-softball-game/3605463002/

 

 

 

 

Larry Fitz says he is an outstanding character and that if he keeps being who he is it will work out for him. But Alphadawg has some people in LA and they say different. 

[GunnerBill]

I agree that Allen being in Arizona would not have stopped Kingsbury drafting Murray. I think he was going that way the whole time. 

 

The questions are with Allen there does Wilkes still get fired? My answer is yes he was in way over his head. And then if Wilkes is still fired would they have hired Kliff Kingsbury to work with Josh Allen? On that I am less sure. They hire Kingsbury precisely because they thought he would mesh with Rosen and that is what he told them. Problem was as soon as Kingsbury was hired he made it clear he wanted to draft Murray. I am not sure personality wise Kingsbury and Allen is the same mesh. So if Allen was their QB I think the coaching search probably goes differently. But if it hadn't and they had still landed on Kliff Kingsbury? He'd have drafted Murray and moved on from Allen too. The only one of last year's drafted QBs he'd have stuck with rather than draft Murray in my mind is Baker. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Defenses ranking

Miami 29

NE 21

Jets 25

 

Seattle 16

Rams 19

49ers 13

 

so every NFC West defense was better than the best AFC East one.  Also, I’m sure it didn’t help Allen at all playing with the 2nd ranked defense while Rosen played with the 20th.  Again, it’s not a comparison but to put this all on Rosen is completely foolish.  His situation sucked and it was possibly the worst situation in the nfl for a Rookie qb.

 

Our defense sucked too when Allen was hurt and our offense sucked.  Allen elevating the offense greatly helped our defense.  

 

Rams D was a joke, had worst secondary in NFL most the year, bad example.  

 

Teams passed on Rosen.  The team who traded for him already gave up on him.  Some teams didn’t even have him on their draft boards and Schefter reported there were GMs who said they don’t even want him on their team let alone the face of it.  

 

So we can disagree on this, but bottom line is this all happened for a reason.  No amount of excuses can change that.  

 

At the end of the day, only Rosen can write his own story.  He gets a new start and he will either excel or fail to impress again.  Doesn’t matter what you, me, differing GMs think.  Matters what he does on the field, and so far, it wasn’t enough for one team to keep him.  Wasn’t enough for other teams to want to trade for him.  Wasn’t enough for the Dolphins to even use a 2nd round pick on him and elected to trade down instead where they finally felt comfortable making the trade.  

 

To be honest, it’s a great move by Miami.  I mean as critical as I am, I still recognize he has plenty of potential and in no way saying he can’t still become a good QB.  I’m just skeptical he can be the field general and leader he needs to be to succeed.  

 

 

[Gugny]

Some friends and I were discussing this over the weekend.  I think it's great that Rosen will have Fitzpatrick as a mentor.  Fitz is obviously a smart dude.  He's carved out quite a career.  Pairing Fitz's knowledge and experience with an eager/willing apprentice seems like a wise move on Miami's part.

 

I've never been a big Rosen fan, primarily due to his general attitude/demeanor.  I think he has the physical tools and brain power necessary to be a successful NFL QB.  I think he got railroaded by AZ and I actually hope the kid comes out on top now.

 

Does anyone know whether Fitz relishes the role of mentor?  I guess I've always assumed that he's willing to teach, guide, etc.  But is there any proof of that?

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think you’re a good poster as well, so no disrespect intended of course.  And we aren’t always going to agree and that’s all good bud.

 

But I disagree greatly that AZ would have done the same thing to Allen.  Their stat totals ended similar, but it was Allen that really showed significant improvements and it was Allen who the Cardinals coveted last year and were devastated reportedly when we took him.  

 

There is a reason Allen ended the year with so much buzz and Rosen didn’t.  Allen had an equally, and IMO slightly worse, scenario in terms of talent around him.  Fitz and Kirk were better receiving options.  David Johnson is better than McCoy at this stage of Shary’s career.  The OL was equally as bad but Allen has way more ability to make some thing happen athletically.  

 

Allen might have been even better in AZ last year than he was in Buffalo having some better skill players to work with.  

 

So respectfully disagree AZ still takes Murray if Allen was there.  Heck, they may not have even fired their coaching staff if Allen had brought the same late season excitement to that team as he did here.

 

At the very least, Allen did more with the same bad roster around him during the 2nd half the season.  Although I would actually say he did more with slightly less than Rosen had.

I'll continue the trend and say that YOU are a quality poster; however, it's entirely possible that Arizona would have done the same thing with Allen.

 

Kingsbury was in love with Murray and believes he's a perfect fit for his offense. He may very well have felt Allen wasn't a great fit. There's no way to know so it's all speculation at this point. 

 

The Bills have organizational stability and fully believe Allen is their guy. That's the most important thing.

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Larry Fitz says he is an outstanding character and that if he keeps being who he is it will work out for him. But Alphadawg has some people in LA and they say different. 

 

Yes, I know people who have been around Josh at various points of his career, and none have said anything great about his character.  Most common word used was deuche and fake tough guy.  

 

And I’m sure there are people who like the kid, but the point is his character has been a point of debate going back before UCLA and while at UCLA.  That debate doesn’t happen if there isn’t something there, plenty of people didn’t like him, including several professional scouts and GMs.  

 

So it can’t be dismissed, and I trust my friends opinions too.  Doesn’t mean he can’t succeed or mature out of it, just saying it’s not some urban legend, it was legit for a reason.

 

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'll continue the trend and say that YOU are a quality poster; however, it's entirely possible that Arizona would have done the same thing with Allen.

 

Kingsbury was in love with Murray and believes he's a perfect fit for his offense. He may very well have felt Allen wasn't a great fit. There's no way to know so it's all speculation at this point. 

 

The Bills have organizational stability and fully believe Allen is their guy. That's the most important thing.

 

Thanks and I just don’t think they hire Kliff unless he was 100% committed to Allen had he been a Cardinal.  All reports was they loved Allen in the draft, so I think he comes with more initial commitment and the HC either then doesn’t get fired, or they fire him and hire someone specifically to build around Allen.

 

All speculation, but that’s just my opinion of course

Edited April 28, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Some friends and I were discussing this over the weekend.  I think it's great that Rosen will have Fitzpatrick as a mentor.  Fitz is obviously a smart dude.  He's carved out quite a career.  Pairing Fitz's knowledge and experience with an eager/willing apprentice seems like a wise move on Miami's part.

 

I've never been a big Rosen fan, primarily due to his general attitude/demeanor.  I think he has the physical tools and brain power necessary to be a successful NFL QB.  I think he got railroaded by AZ and I actually hope the kid comes out on top now.

 

Does anyone know whether Fitz relishes the role of mentor?  I guess I've always assumed that he's willing to teach, guide, etc.  But is there any proof of that?

 

 

 

I agree Miami is initially a great spot for him and Fitz could be a great mentor.  However it also has risks and may be a losing battle.

 

1.  How much playing time does he get over Fitz?  I expect Fitz starts the year until they feel Rosen is ready to start sometime 4 to 8 games in.  

 

2.  Miami roster sucks, his situation is worse than the Cards last year in terms of roster talent.  How well will he even play in that situation?  So can he even do enough to keep Miami from taking a top QB prospect next year?  They have very little invested in Rosen, so he’s going to have an uphill battle to keep Miami going QB early unless he can elevate a bad roster.  

[without a drought]

If all works out for the Bills, Jets and Dolphins at QB, then the Pats could soon be stuck at 4th in the division.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thanks and I just don’t think they hire Kliff unless he was 100% committed to Allen had he been a Cardinal.  All reports was they loved Allen in the draft, so I think he comes with more initial commitment and the HC either then doesn’t get fired, or they fire him and hire someone specifically to build around Allen.

 

All speculation, but that’s just my opinion of course

 

Still think the coach gets fired. He was in way over his head. I think Kliff would have said he was 100% committed to Allen. He said he was 100% committed to Rosen too. The point I think is that they thought Kliff was a personality mesh with Rosen. If they had Allen then you are looking for a very different type of personality to mesh with him. Kliff may not even have got an interview in those circumstances. 

[Alphadawg7]

By the way, I don’t have a crystal ball.  Im not saying he’s going to for sure bust or anything.  The kid has arm talent and smarts, so he hasn’t plenty of upside still.  

 

But that being said, I just remain skeptical that he has what it takes in the intangible department to reach his potential.  

 

And now that he’s in our division, we will get 2 close looks at him potentially this year and hopefully I’m right as we don’t need Miami getting a franchise QB so cheap lol

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Still think the coach gets fired. He was in way over his head. I think Kliff would have said he was 100% committed to Allen. He said he was 100% committed to Rosen too. The point I think is that they thought Kliff was a personality mesh with Rosen. If they had Allen then you are looking for a very different type of personality to mesh with him. Kliff may not even have got an interview in those circumstances. 

 

I agree with you on the HC.  He does still likely get fired.  

 

And yeah, I think Kliff probably isn’t the hire if they had Allen personally.  

Edited April 28, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

2.  Miami roster sucks, his situation is worse than the Cards last year in terms of roster talent.  How well will he even play in that situation?  So can he even do enough to keep Miami from taking a top QB prospect next year?  They have very little invested in Rosen, so he’s going to have an uphill battle to keep Miami going QB early unless he can elevate a bad roster.  

 

I think the offensive weapons in Miami are probably less good. The line is a little better - Tunsil is a good player I think the kid they drafted in the 3rd out of Wisconsin will start too. But you are right he isn't walking into a great situation. I think it is probably less of a basket case around him than Arizona but I still don't expect Miami to be a good team.