starrymessenger Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 Both Ford and Clark can rush the passer on the outside, but Clark is a tougher, way more physical player who is much, much better against the run. The price was very steep agreed but the Chiefs obviously think they've landed a 25 year old elite pass rusher who is not at all situational and who adds a lot of value on every down. If they are right he's worth it.
wppete Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 I actually am happy we don’t give all that up for Clark. I really think We are signing Ziggy Ansah now.
Alphadawg7 Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 2018: Ford 13 sacks. Clark 13 sacks. Clark I have repeatedly said is better than Ford...but is he so much better that you will both pay him more money and give up a first and trade down in 3rd? I don't think its that dramatic. BUT....Clark has WAY more off field risk to go with it which further closes the gap on the players IMO. The only thing I can accept here as making sense is a scheme fit. Still if someone sat me down and said you can pick one of the below scenarios: Frank Clark - Minus a first, minus next years 2nd, a trade down in 3rd, and pay him more money. Dee Ford - Keep everything above, and just not have an extra 2nd in 2019 and pay him less money. I take the Dee Ford side of that, ESPECIALLY given the risks with the off field stuff with Clark. But like I said, football player to football player, Clark is better...just dont think he's that better and has too much risk.
The Firebaugh Kid Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 Kings ransom. No thanks. Get me Ansah when hes cleared.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, wppete said: I actually am happy we don’t give all that up for Clark. I really think We are signing Ziggy Ansah now. I could see them renting Ziggy this year and hoping to be in on Clowney next year. 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 LOL Chiefs. That Defense will not be noticeably better with the new 13 sack player and without the former 13 sack player. 1
ColoradoBills Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: 2018: Ford 13 sacks. Clark 13 sacks. Clark I have repeatedly said is better than Ford...but is he so much better that you will both pay him more money and give up a first and trade down in 3rd? I don't think its that dramatic. BUT....Clark has WAY more off field risk to go with it which further closes the gap on the players IMO. The only thing I can accept here as making sense is a scheme fit. Still if someone sat me down and said you can pick one of the below scenarios: Frank Clark - Minus a first, minus next years 2nd, a trade down in 3rd, and pay him more money. Dee Ford - Keep everything above, and just not have an extra 2nd in 2019 and pay him less money. I take the Dee Ford side of that, ESPECIALLY given the risks with the off field stuff with Clark. But like I said, football player to football player, Clark is better...just dont think he's that better and has too much risk. Actually the swap is a trade up for KC. Working the JJ Draft Trade Chart it comes to about 900 points not counting discounting the assumed late round 2nd next year. That equates to a 1st round pick #18 or so. Lower pick number if you want to discount the 2020 2nd. To me it seems reasonable for both teams.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) Big Spenders ... 2019 and 2020 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/ ACTIVE PLAYERS (73) BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS ROSTER BONUS WORKOUT BONUS DEAD CAP CAP HIT CAP % Sammy Watkins 11950000 7000000 - 250000 -22210000 19200000 10.16 Eric Berry 12400000 4000000 - 100000 -14950000 16500000 8.73 Eric Fisher 10350000 2550000 500000 250000 -13667023 13650000 7.23 Travis Kelce 7500000 1968400 1000000 250000 -3936800 10718400 5.67 Anthony Hitchens 6500000 2800000 - 200000 -17700000 9500000 5.03 ACTIVE PLAYERS (73) BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS ROSTER BONUS WORKOUT BONUS DEAD CAP CAP HIT CAP % Sammy Watkins 13750000 7000000 - 250000 -7000000 21000000 11.16 Tyrann Mathieu 11150000 4933333 - 250000 -21016668 16333333 8.68 Eric Fisher 8750000 2550000 500000 250000 -2550000 12050000 6.4 Anthony Hitchens 7800000 2800000 500000 200000 -8400000 11300000 6 Travis Kelce 7250000 1968400 1000000 250000 -1968400 10468400 5.56 Laurent Duvernay-Tardif 6450000 2000000 500000 50000 -4000000 9000000 4.78 Edited April 23, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan
T master Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 These contracts are getting stupid ? soon there will be a bunch of really good players looking for work because teams can build through the draft & let the high priced guys walk & when it gets to bad i'll start watching curling !! ?
MJS Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: With Allen on a rookie contract, we have a 4 year window to make moves exactly like this one. This year wasnt the right time when we are sitting on a top-10 pick. But next year, when we're picking in the late 20s, we could do something similar and pay that player. The Chiefs are simply a year ahead of us. I can accept that.
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, SWATeam said: They also lost Houston, who is excellent. Houston was a shell of himself last year. He's in all likelihood past his prime. Injuries have caught up to him.
Alphadawg7 Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Actually the swap is a trade up for KC. Working the JJ Draft Trade Chart it comes to about 900 points not counting discounting the assumed late round 2nd next year. That equates to a 1st round pick #18 or so. Lower pick number if you want to discount the 2020 2nd. To me it seems reasonable for both teams. Ah early reports said a trade down, but didnt check the picks myself. Thanks for clearing that up. I definitely think Clark is better and will make KC better. I just not convinced the gap is as big as the compensation is, especially when weighed with Clarks off field risk. But I do honestly think the Chiefs are better with Clark than Ford. I am skeptical the Chiefs are better off though with Clark instead of Ford and whoever they were going to take in the first which could easily have been a CB, something they very badly need for example. I think I would have kept Ford, paid him a little less, and kept my First round pick in this draft. But hey, I am not a professional GM, so I am sure they know a lot more about this than me. All that being said, I hold Clark in very high regard and feel he is a premiere DE already. So they certainly got a great player. But I also think Ford is pretty darn good too.
Andrew Son Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Houston was a shell of himself last year. He's in all likelihood past his prime. Injuries have caught up to him. Still had 9 sacks. I’m not sure the chiefs are any better gaining Clark and losing Ford and Houston. With Ford, Chris Jones, and Houston last year- pass rush was not their problem. But, after losing those guys they had to do something. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: They're in it to win it this year, and who can blame them? Clark is a major upgrade at the DE position. Ford was overrated. Yeah, he had 13 sacks, but opponents had to pass all the time because they were always behind very early in the game because of the Chiefs' offense. Clark is the real thing. Clark and Chris Jones is an enviable inside-out pass rushing combo. They don't have much else on D but those two are A LOT if you are playing with leads. And Clark can move around or stunt inside and throw guards entirely off balance. His hand work is outstanding. That allows him to be so efficient to the QB and get so many sacks as opposed to just pressures. He could push 20 sacks if the Chiefs play anything like last season. 3
ColoradoBills Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Ah early reports said a trade down, but didnt check the picks myself. Thanks for clearing that up. I definitely think Clark is better and will make KC better. I just not convinced the gap is as big as the compensation is, especially when weighed with Clarks off field risk. But I do honestly think the Chiefs are better with Clark than Ford. I am skeptical the Chiefs are better off though with Clark instead of Ford and whoever they were going to take in the first which could easily have been a CB, something they very badly need for example. I think I would have kept Ford, paid him a little less, and kept my First round pick in this draft. But hey, I am not a professional GM, so I am sure they know a lot more about this than me. All that being said, I hold Clark in very high regard and feel he is a premiere DE already. So they certainly got a great player. But I also think Ford is pretty darn good too. I get your point. I probably should of added how the Bills would of equated to the 900 point difference. Swapping 1st would of netted SEA 550 points. That's 350 left and the Bills 2nd was worth more than that (500). Beane was probably in the swap 1's and throw in the 3 or 4 range. Not far off but SEA did better with KC. I have to think like others around here............KC is going all in with what they think will make them win a SB. You have to like the pre draft week for excitement! I'm hoping Beane can make a reasonable Ansah deal and get another good DL in the draft.
JerseyBills Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Logic said: That trade makes sense for the Chiefs. They're only really giving up the 29th pick this year and a probable late 2nd next year. They can also reasonably feel like they're an impact pass rusher away from another Super Bowl run. This move would NOT have made sense for the Bills. The 9th pick is too high to give up for a team that is where the Bills are in their building process, and the Bills should NOT reasonably feel like they're one player away from a Super Bowl run. I don't think it makes much sense for KC because of Dee Ford. I just don't understand why u get rid of a 34 edge rusher for a DE that never played in that scheme professionally. Plus you're giving up a first rder. Kinda off to me. Both will demand similar contracts. Basically swapped out a proven elite pass rusher in ur system for an unproven Edge rusher in said system, while losing a 1st. ? ??? 7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Clark and Chris Jones is an enviable inside-out pass rushing combo. They don't have much else on D but those two are A LOT if you are playing with leads. And Clark can move around or stunt inside and throw guards entirely off balance. His hand work is outstanding. That allows him to be so efficient to the QB and get so many sacks as opposed to just pressures. He could push 20 sacks if the Chiefs play anything like last season. I agree that Clark is a helluva player but so was Ford. And we've never seen Clark in this scheme as a Professional
Alphadawg7 Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I get your point. I probably should of added how the Bills would of equated to the 900 point difference. Swapping 1st would of netted SEA 550 points. That's 350 left and the Bills 2nd was worth more than that (500). Beane was probably in the swap 1's and throw in the 3 or 4 range. Not far off but SEA did better with KC. I have to think like others around here............KC is going all in with what they think will make them win a SB. You have to like the pre draft week for excitement! I'm hoping Beane can make a reasonable Ansah deal and get another good DL in the draft. Yeah I would be pretty hyped to sign Ansah as it takes pressure off to get a DE in this draft. 1
Doc Brown Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, WMDman said: Why not just keep Ford? Dude can't even line up where he's supposed to. I guess they think Clark is that much better than Ford. Clowney has to be salivating right now after Clark's contract.
HappyDays Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 I don't get this move for the Chiefs at all. They badly need secondary help. Their 1st would have been a prime spot to take someone like Greedy Williams or Byron Murphy. I get that Clark is a better player than Ford, but I don't see how he moves the needle enough to make the trade worth it. 1
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