The Senator Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 2:58 PM, formerlyofCtown said: Lol You typed Dawson bud not Dawkins. I forgot my sarcasm emoji but if you actually read both post you shoulda have been able to figure that out. Expand Oops! My bad. . 2
KOKBILLS Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 I want to preface this by saying I like Jonah...He's the best technician I've seen on the O-line in quite some time...His footwork is excellent...He's a damn good College player... But... Of the potential picks for the Bills at #9 he is the guy that excites me the absolute least... He's going to get manhandled at times...He's 6-4-302 but looks lighter...I'm not sure about him at OG going up against those monster DT's either... I do think he's in the Riley Reiff, Bulaga mold...That's not a bad thing...But...IMHO there will be better options at #9 guaranteed...If the Bills were to go O-Line at #9 I would hope it's Taylor or Dillard...I think they have much better upside...?
LabattBlue Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 I've read that Williams has short arms. Is it really that big of a deal if his arms are 2" shorter than your average OT? Can't you make up for that with great technique/athleticism?
The Senator Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:02 PM, LabattBlue said: I've read that Williams has short arms. Is it really that big of a deal if his arms are 2" shorter than your average OT? Can't you make up for that with great technique/athleticism? Expand Or maybe just grow longer fingernails? .
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/21/2019 at 7:46 PM, Logic said: I'm just gonna say this and it's okay if I'm totally in the minority: I'm fine with the Bills taking Williams at 9. A decade+, high quality starting offensive lineman that will set the tone along the o-line with his work ethic and study habits. We could do a lot worse. Expand How did that work out with Thomas and the rest of the Browns awful O-line for his entire career? It's nice that Williams studies a lot, but....pass for an impact player at 9 please.
Logic Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:10 PM, Mr. WEO said: How did that work out with Thomas and the rest of the Browns awful O-line for his entire career? It's nice that Williams studies a lot, but....pass for an impact player at 9 please. Expand Did you just mention Joe Thomas in sentence one and then say "pass for an impact player" in sentence two? Joe Thomas is a surefire Hall of Famer. I think you just made the OPPOSITE of your point.
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:30 PM, Logic said: Did you just mention Joe Thomas in sentence one and then say "pass for an impact player" in sentence two? Joe Thomas is a surefire Hall of Famer. I think you just made the OPPOSITE of your point. Expand nah. What impact did a "surefire Hall of Famer" T have for that team all those years? They routinely had one of the worst O-lines. It makes the point that the greatest O-lineman ever born (or whatever) can only have a very limited impact. It's the nature of the position. By definition an ensemble piece.
Logic Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:42 PM, Mr. WEO said: nah. What impact did a "surefire Hall of Famer" T have for that team all those years? They routinely had one of the worst O-lines. It makes the point that the greatest O-lineman ever born (or whatever) can only have a very limited impact. It's the nature of the position. By definition an ensemble piece. Expand Wow. I'm not sure where to even start with that , so I'll just say that I politely and completely disagree.
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:47 PM, Logic said: Wow. I'm not sure where to even start with that , so I'll just say that I politely and completely disagree. Expand It's a simple question. How did that team benefit from having Thomas? He's no doubt one of the best ever. Yet their O-line underperformed as though he wasn't there. Where was the impact? Thomas made a great career for himself, no doubt. I'll remind you that they picked him over Adrian Peterson. They could gotten the same value if they traded down and taken Joe Staley.
Alphadawg7 Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/21/2019 at 7:24 PM, Tipster19 said: I guess I was wrong, I thought Jawaan Taylor was the OL to get in this draft. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/21/jonah-williams-takes-preparation-to-the-next-level/ Expand While I am not convinced after all the OL additions that the Bills will go OL early, I also would not have an issue with it. I think if we do go OL at 9 it would be Jonah (still not sure why there is so much love for Taylor) or if we trade back it would be Dillard (assuming Jonah is gone). But IMO, I still have a feeling we will go with a weapon early like DK or Hock (if the D guy they covet is gone at 9 which I expect them to be) and then maybe target Dillard or Dalton in a trade up from 40 if they still want an OL addition early in the draft. 1
Logic Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:53 PM, Mr. WEO said: It's a simple question. How did that team benefit from having Thomas? He's no doubt one of the best ever. Yet their O-line underperformed as though he wasn't there. Where was the impact? Thomas made a great career for himself, no doubt. I'll remind you that they picked him over Adrian Peterson. They could gotten the same value if they traded down and taken Joe Staley. Expand 1.) Offensive Tackle is either the second or third most important position in Football. QB is #1, obviously, but after that come Edge Rushers and Offensive Tackles. Your attempt to minimize the importance of a high quality left tackle is off base, in my opinion. 2.) We can play this game both ways. How many championships did dangerous offensive weapon and Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez win his team over the years? How many championships did the Lions win with Calvin Johnson or with Barry Sanders? You can't use the lack of team success during a great player's tenure as evidence that that player isn't worth having or seeking out in the draft. 3.) Do you really think the Browns would have won more games during those years if they had chosen Adrian Peterson over Joe Thomas? If you want an "impact player" at 9, it's hard to overstate the influence that a franchise left tackle can have on a quarterback's success and on an offense as a whole. It's also hard to overstate the importance of the left tackle position in general. If you told me I could have either Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson in their prime on the Bills for the next decade, I know who I'd pick 10 times out of 10.
Dr. Who Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) On 4/23/2019 at 11:25 PM, Logic said: 1.) Offensive Tackle is either the second or third most important position in Football. QB is #1, obviously, but after that come Edge Rushers and Offensive Tackles. Your attempt to minimize the importance of a high quality left tackle is off base, in my opinion. 2.) We can play this game both ways. How many championships did dangerous offensive weapon and Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez win his team over the years? How many championships did the Lions win with Calvin Johnson or with Barry Sanders? You can't use the lack of team success during a great player's tenure as evidence that that player isn't worth having or seeking out in the draft. 3.) Do you really think the Browns would have won more games during those years if they had chosen Adrian Peterson over Joe Thomas? If you want an "impact player" at 9, it's hard to overstate the influence that a franchise left tackle can have on a quarterback's success and on an offense as a whole. It's also hard to overstate the importance of the left tackle position in general. If you told me I could have either Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson in their prime on the Bills for the next decade, I know who I'd pick 10 times out of 10. Expand I just don't see an OT worthy of #9. I'm not convinced Jonah Williams is a tackle, really, and I don't think he's the next Q. Nelson at guard, though he'll probably be solid. Taylor is the fella with the most upside at tackle supposedly. I think Dillard is soft and a finesse kind of player; that doesn't sound like it fits with the kind of line we are trying to build. Tytus Howard is a developmental tackle worth looking at. You can get him in the second. Edited April 23, 2019 by Dr. Who
Logic Posted April 23, 2019 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 11:47 PM, Dr. Who said: I just don't see an OT worthy of #9. I'm not convinced Jonah Williams is a tackle, really, and I don't think he's the next Q. Nelson at guard, though he'll probably be solid. Taylor is the fella with the most upside at tackle supposedly. I think Dillard is soft and a finesse kind of player; that doesn't sound like it fits with the kind of line we are trying to build. Tytus Howard is a developmental tackle worth looking at. You can get him in the second. Expand That's fair. The way I look at it, Jonah Williams was the best offensive tackle in the SEC last year and one of the best in all of college football. That's got to count for something. He's playing against future NFL edge rushers and is operating a scheme at 'Bama that features a lot of stuff he'll be seeing on Sundays. And he DOMINATED. If the idea is that he can't be a tackle in the NFL just because his arms are 2 inches too short, and we're going to completely disregard his proven production at the college level, well...we'll see, I guess. I'm not sure I buy that Williams is strictly a guard in the NFL. I DO believe, however, that if he flames out at tackle, he'll still make an above average guard. I'm not saying Quenten Nelson level, but I'll think he'll be darn good inside if that's where he ends up. And offensive tackle is one of the only positions in the draft where if the guy you pick doesn't work out, he has a potential fall-back position that keeps the pick from being a waste. If DK Metcalf or Ed Oliver bust at WR or DT, respectively, for instance, there's no backup position for them.
MrEpsYtown Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) I still don't understand why Dillard is a pure left tackle with long arms when his arms and wingspan are smaller than Jonah Williams. I must be missing something here, but why is arm length an issue for one and not the other. Dillard is such a trap. On 4/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, FeelingOnYouboty said: Chances of him being there at #9 are slim. Now if Carolina trades up with Detroit we're screwed out of Andre Dillard. Expand If Carolina screws us out of Dillard it will be a blessing for us and for Cam Jordan, Vic Beasley and the other pass rushers in NFC South. Edited April 24, 2019 by MrEpsYtown
ndirish1978 Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 I've now talked myself into being cool with this pick. Here's my tip for anyone nervous about this draft: all you have to do is be comfortable with us picking one of 10-12 guys and then hope we don't pull some weird unexpected move. I will not proceed to lose what is left of my mind should any of these (many highly unlikely) fall to us: 1- Hock; 2- Oliver; 3- Q Williams; 4- J Williams; 5- Devin White; 6- Bosa; 7- Allen; 8- J Taylor; 9- Brian Burns; 10- Montez Sweat; 11- C Ford; 12- Wilkins; 13- Metcalf
Mat68 Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 10:30 PM, Logic said: Did you just mention Joe Thomas in sentence one and then say "pass for an impact player" in sentence two? Joe Thomas is a surefire Hall of Famer. I think you just made the OPPOSITE of your point. Expand The Browns were the worst team in football for the vast majority of his career. The point is that a Hall of Fame OT doesnt effect the franchise and team as much as other positions can. Now it's a team sport so 1 player doesnt have a large contribution to the overall success expect for QB, and even they are leveraged by coaching blocking and pass catchers.
MrEpsYtown Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 Williams lost his argument when he mentioned Riley Reiff, who blows.
Logic Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/24/2019 at 12:31 AM, Mat68 said: The Browns were the worst team in football for the vast majority of his career. The point is that a Hall of Fame OT doesnt effect the franchise and team as much as other positions can. Now it's a team sport so 1 player doesnt have a large contribution to the overall success expect for QB, and even they are leveraged by coaching blocking and pass catchers. Expand This is the worst and most nonsensical argument ever. A Hall of Fame OT doesn't affect the franchise as much as other positions? Really? Other than QB and Edge, WHAT other positions affect a team's fortunes as much as LT?! I'll wait here.
Mat68 Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/24/2019 at 12:49 AM, Logic said: This is the worst and most nonsensical argument ever. A Hall of Fame OT doesn't affect the franchise as much as other positions? Really? Other than QB and Edge, WHAT other positions affect a team's fortunes as much as LT?! I'll wait here. Expand What was Joe Thomas impact on the Browns franchise. What was Walter Jones impact for Seatle? But again it's also a team sport. One player not matter how good doesnt change a lot.
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