Mojo44 Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, JM57 said: Wilkins won't be the best player on the board at 9. I don't think he's a bad player. But he's not a good pick at 9. He's older for a rookie, his floor is high, but he's also probably pretty close to his ceiling. He's maxed out because he's 23 going on 24 and there's just not a ton of growth left for him. I could get behind him as a pick with a trade down but it's not something I can support at 9. I’m not sure he’s the BPA at 9 but the age thing is a total non issue. If he is that good who cares if he is 24 instead of 21 or 22? Also, I think sometimes this whole “floor/ceiling“ issue gets overrated. I see no compelling reason to believe that if he is drafted he can’t continue to develop. This is pretty much the case of any young athlete going from college to the pros. I wonder what Kyle Williams’ ceiling was when he was drafted? 1
John from Riverside Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 Would love to get him in a trade down
YoloinOhio Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Mojo44 said: I’m not sure he’s the BPA at 9 but the age thing is a total non issue. If he is that good who cares if he is 24 instead of 21 or 22? Also, I think sometimes this whole “floor/ceiling“ issue gets overrated. I see no compelling reason to believe that if he is drafted he can’t continue to develop. This is pretty much the case of any young athlete going from college to the pros. I wonder what Kyle Williams’ ceiling was when he was drafted? It’s the same thing that exists with nick bosa tbh. He’s already very polished ... this is who he is. It’s not a bad thing for him and it’s not a bad thing for Wilkins. The only time it’s a negative imo is when the player isn’t good to begin with, not the case here. 1
JM57 Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Mojo44 said: I’m not sure he’s the BPA at 9 but the age thing is a total non issue. If he is that good who cares if he is 24 instead of 21 or 22? Also, I think sometimes this whole “floor/ceiling“ issue gets overrated. I see no compelling reason to believe that if he is drafted he can’t continue to develop. This is pretty much the case of any young athlete going from college to the pros. I wonder what Kyle Williams’ ceiling was when he was drafted? Not everyone is Kyle Williams. For every Kyle Williams coming from LSU, there's another guy from Alabama or Ohio State or (insert power program here) who has already reached his peak and will be a decent pro player, but not anything special either. I think he will be a starter in the NFL but I'd really like a lot more than just "a starter" from #9 1
Mojo44 Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 27 minutes ago, JM57 said: Not everyone is Kyle Williams. For every Kyle Williams coming from LSU, there's another guy from Alabama or Ohio State or (insert power program here) who has already reached his peak and will be a decent pro player, but not anything special either. I think he will be a starter in the NFL but I'd really like a lot more than just "a starter" from #9 I agree with you and, thus, the opening line of my post.Although I do believe that regardless of where he is taken, probably in the first round, he will potential he be more than “just a starter”. As things stand now I would not be comfortable taking him at nine for all of those reasons. But, I do believe he has a higher ceiling than a lot of people on the board give him credit for. It’s hard not to like his intangibles. Also, at this point, if they did take him at nine I suppose I would trust Beane’s judgement.
Logic Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 Just now, YoloinOhio said: The public at large is sleeping on Wilkins. The respect with which he is viewed is diminished by the presence of Olive and Williams, and by Wilkins' being older than usual for a draftee. Were it not for the fact that there are so many OTHER great DL prospects and were it not for the fact that Wilkins is 24, he would be viewed with the proper esteem. He's going to be really good. 2 1
Reed83HOF Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Logic said: The public at large is sleeping on Wilkins. The respect with which he is viewed is diminished by the presence of Olive and Williams, and by Wilkins' being older than usual for a draftee. Were it not for the fact that there are so many OTHER great DL prospects and were it not for the fact that Wilkins is 24, he would be viewed with the proper esteem. He's going to be really good. I think it comes down to Oliver and the cost to move up, Wilkins or Williams
BillsVet Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, CNYfan said: I am conflicted but feel that this will be our draft choice at #9 tomorrow night. Not much sizzle, but very solid. Maybe a little like the Shaq Lawson draft pick where I was hoping for better, but that was the best player at that time. We've seen the sizzle type picks (Spiller) and we've seen the safe ones (Lawson). The people who made those picks are long gone and will go down as unable to move this team into contender status. I don't need to see sizzle, but I want to see more than conventional, which is what taking a DT at 9 is save for Q. Williams. If the pick is defense and not a DE, then it's a waste given positional value. Wherever they pick should be in support of Allen, preferably a skill position type. That is, if they don't want to end up like the guys who took Spiller and Lawson. 1
Bakin Posted April 24, 2019 Author Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, CNYfan said: I am conflicted but feel that this will be our draft choice at #9 tomorrow night. Not much sizzle, but very solid. Maybe a little like the Shaq Lawson draft pick where I was hoping for better, but that was the best player at that time. Shaq had injury issues and I consider him (as most probably do) a pretty lousy pick so far. Hope he improves a lot this year. We need him badly. I wanted Noah Spence that draft and he hasn’t fared any better so who the hell knows.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 24, 2019 Posted April 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, Logic said: The public at large is sleeping on Wilkins. The respect with which he is viewed is diminished by the presence of Olive and Williams, and by Wilkins' being older than usual for a draftee. Were it not for the fact that there are so many OTHER great DL prospects and were it not for the fact that Wilkins is 24, he would be viewed with the proper esteem. He's going to be really good. He won't turn 24 until late in the season but yeah.......that's OLD for a guy who is not appreciably more finished as a 23 year old than he was a 21 year old sophomore. If he's got a lot more in the tank he must have been withholding it for some reason.........which isn't an inspiring look. But top 20 is nothing to sneeze at and he's going there if not top 10. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bakin said: Shaq had injury issues and I consider him (as most probably do) a pretty lousy pick so far. Hope he improves a lot this year. We need him badly. I wanted Noah Spence that draft and he hasn’t fared any better so who the hell knows. Yeah Spence has been a bust. I wanted Myles Jack.........he's made some unbelievable plays and was big in their AFC Championship game run..........but has largely disappointed as well...........though the main concern with him was durability and he's 48 for 48 in three years. This draft thing..........it's not that predictable. The lesson with Shaq though is that you can still go broke trying to take a smaller, safer profit...........the objective in round one is to get franchise cornerstone difference makers..........better to swing bigger and risk missing than to settle and end up with replacement level rotational players. If you can't find those guys after round 1 you aren't going to win anyway. 1
YoloinOhio Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 4 hours ago, JM57 said: Wilkins won't be the best player on the board at 9. I don't think he's a bad player. But he's not a good pick at 9. He's older for a rookie, his floor is high, but he's also probably pretty close to his ceiling. He's maxed out because he's 23 going on 24 and there's just not a ton of growth left for him. I could get behind him as a pick with a trade down but it's not something I can support at 9. Hes the 7th best player in the draft according to Daniel Jeremiah, who does this for a living...
JM57 Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Hes the 7th best player in the draft according to Daniel Jeremiah, who does this for a living... Is he that high on everyone's board who does this for a living or did we use only DJ's rank because it was the highest? I feel like Wilkins is an afterthought here. Like "Well Ed Oliver isn't making it to 9 so let's just start pushing him to Buffalo instead" even though he's a perfect pick if they trade down. Edited April 25, 2019 by JM57
Bray Wyatt Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 If Oliver, Q Williams, Allen, Bosa are all gone I wouldn’t mind Wilkins at all
YoloinOhio Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JM57 said: Is he that high on everyone's board who does this for a living or did we use only DJ's rank because it was the highest? I feel like Wilkins is an afterthought here. Like "Well Ed Oliver isn't making it to 9 so let's just start pushing him to Buffalo instead" even though he's a perfect pick if they trade down. His is the only one I even look at, because I find him to be the most credible. He could be higher or lower elsewhere, don’t know. I am not sure where the afterthought stuff comes from. Edited April 25, 2019 by YoloinOhio
JM57 Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: His is the only one I even look at, because I find him to be the most credible. He could be higher or lower elsewhere, don’t know. I am not sure where the afterthought stuff comes from. How much did we hear about Wilkins to Buffalo, except as a trade down target, before this week? Very little.
Carbonpoke Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 I think Wilkins is the real deal. Graduating in two and a half years, team captain, award for community service. This tells me he is a workaholic, work ethics, and a positive locker room presence. Oliver is a negative Nancy. Build your team around character.
McBean Posted April 25, 2019 Posted April 25, 2019 3 hours ago, BillsVet said: We've seen the sizzle type picks (Spiller) and we've seen the safe ones (Lawson). The people who made those picks are long gone and will go down as unable to move this team into contender status. I don't need to see sizzle, but I want to see more than conventional, which is what taking a DT at 9 is save for Q. Williams. If the pick is defense and not a DE, then it's a waste given positional value. Wherever they pick should be in support of Allen, preferably a skill position type. That is, if they don't want to end up like the guys who took Spiller and Lawson. Great post. 100% agreed
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