Daniel Jeremiah mock #3 (Hockenson to Bills)

[Cornette's Commentary]

11 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

But our defense did hold the pats to 12 points in three quarters right? Did you want the defense to hold them to less points l?

I want someone to convince me that taking a tight end at 9 will take this team from 6 wins to 11 or 12 wins.  That's all.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Cornette's Commentary

[aristocrat]

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

I want someone to convince me that having an elite tight end will take this team from 6 wins to 11 or 12 wins.  That's all.

 

A d tackle doesn’t give you five wins either. What you should be looking for is the guy who gets us that extra 1-2 games. The only guy giving you 6 more wins is a qb.  

[billspro]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

I want kelce Kittle type production if we go hock. 

 

You will get it if we draft Hock, instant fan favorite. 

7 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

I want someone to convince me that having an elite tight end will take this team from 6 wins to 11 or 12 wins.  That's all.

 

I don’t think you can win a Super Bowl without a top ten TE. An elite TE will bring you closer to becoming a dominant team than an elite DT (minus Aaron Donald).

25 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

It happened because Derek Anderson was the QB that night.  Having a TE like Hockenson  for him to throw to wouldn't have changed the outcome.

 

It might have if he caught that TD in the 4th quarter before the pick six.

[billspro]

1 hour ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Jim Nantz:  Welcome back to Orchard Park where the Bills trail the New York Jets 35-21 here in the 4th.  Bills tight end TJ Hockenson has already caught two touchdowns, but the Bills front four just CANNOT get any pressure on Jets quarterback Sam Darnold.

Tony Romo: Without a doubt, Jim.  I mean, Darnold has had it easy all day, just standing clean in the pocket.  Also, Le'Veon Bell is just having his way with the Bills' defensive line.  He already has 195 yards rushing and we still have another quarter to go.  Also, Jordan Phillips, the man they were hoping could replace Kyle Williams, has been manhandled in the ground game and hasn't gotten close to Darnold.

Jim: I know the fans in Buffalo were excited about the offensive potential of TJ Hockenson, but you have to look back and wonder if either Rashan Gary or Montez Sweat would have been a better pick.

 

Did you not watch this defence last year? Sweat or Gary are not going to be the difference between this being a good or bad defence. Those guys are rotational guys in year 1.

[Cornette's Commentary]

9 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

You will get it if we draft Hock, instant fan favorite. 

 

I don’t think you can win a Super Bowl without a top ten TE. An elite TE will bring you closer to becoming a dominant team than an elite DT (minus Aaron Donald).

Here is a list of tight ends taken in the 1st round since 2009.  How many of these TEs helped their teams win 4 or 5 more games than the previous year?

- Brandon Pettigrew
- Jermaine Gresham
- Tyler Eifert
- Eric Ebron
- OJ Howard
- Evan Engram
- Hayden Hurst

 

 

1 minute ago, billspro said:

 

Did you not watch this defence last year? Sweat or Gary are not going to be the difference between this being a good or bad defence. Those guys are rotational guys in year 1.

Did you watch the pass rush, or lack thereof?  26th in sacks.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Cornette's Commentary

[billspro]

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

Here is a list of tight ends taken in the 1st round since 2009.  Excluding Hayden Hurst, how many of these TEs helped their teams win 4 or 5 more games than the previous year?

- Brandon Pettigrew
- Jermaine Gresham
- Tyler Eifert
- Eric Ebron
- OJ Howard
- Evan Engram
- Hayden Hurst

 

None of them are as good of a prospect as Hockenson. The only one that would grade close would be OJ Howard and he was pretty legit before getting injured last year. I think Hockenson is a top 10 TE in year one and a top 5 TE in year 2.

[Rocket94]

Yes you guys. I truly believe that Edmunds would flourish on the outside. White would be in the middle and sideline to sideline. If White is there, I would not pass him up. In late round one or round two, several DT's should be available. Then we have the potential Frank Clark acquisition. I will believe that when I see it.

[Cornette's Commentary]

2 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Yes you guys. I truly believe that Edmunds would flourish on the outside. White would be in the middle and sideline to sideline. If White is there, I would not pass him up. In late round one or round two, several DT's should be available. Then we have the potential Frank Clark acquisition. I will believe that when I see it.

You mean the, "never going to happen/in your dreams" Frank Clark acquisition.

[Nihilarian]

2 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Here is a list of tight ends taken in the 1st round since 2009.  Excluding Hayden Hurst, how many of these TEs helped their teams win 4 or 5 more games than the previous year?

- Brandon Pettigrew
- Jermaine Gresham
- Tyler Eifert
- Eric Ebron
- OJ Howard
- Evan Engram
- Hayden Hurst

 

Did you watch the pass rush, or lack thereof?  26th in sacks.

None of those players were ranked top 10 picks. 

 

Like i said in an earlier post in this thread, the 2014 Buffalo Bills had the #4 overall defense and were #1 in sacks, pass rush, QB hurries. They didn't even make the playoffs that season.

 

The few things the Buffalo Bills haven't done in two decades is build a dominant offensive line and and find a franchise QB. This GM might have found the QB and started building the line.

 

 The one thing they have never had is an elite tight end like a Gronk, an Ertz, a Kelce. 

[rayray808]

if no WR in the first round is true, we better move up in the late first and grab one... similar to us grabbing Tremaine Edmunds last year, and according to his 4.0 draft from that year roughly around the same spot

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, billspro said:

 

None of them are as good of a prospect as Hockenson. The only one that would grade close would be OJ Howard and he was pretty legit before getting injured last year. I think Hockenson is a top 10 TE in year one and a top 5 TE in year 2.

 

I had a higher grade on OJ Howard (and I didn't absolutely love Howard either) than I do on Hock. I think his receiving ability is being a little overestimated. To me he is a good, all round, tight end prospect. I don't see the elite game breaker there though that others do. 

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Well, my very first post in this thread said that Hock needs to be a 70/1,000 guy to justify a top-10 pick, so I'd pull back a bit on saying that I don't see value in an elite TE.

 

My point is that so few TEs produce at that level anymore, and none of them have been first rounders for over a decade, so the chances that you're getting top-10 value from a TE pick are quite low.

 

How many 1,000 yard seasons have there been for Tight Ends in the history of the NFL?

[billsredneck1]

7 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Brandon Pettigrew
- Jermaine Gresham
- Tyler Eifert
- Eric Ebron
- OJ Howard
- Evan Engram
- Hayden Hurst

wasn't there a big faction pounding the table for o.j. howard @ what...our no.10? heck, i don't even know who he plays for. tampa?

[thebandit27]

9 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

They're not getting Frank Clark and they're not getting Clowney.  Full stop.  People need to wake up and accept it.

 

Why not?

 

 I mean, I don't think it happens either, but the sweeping declaration opens you up to looking quite foolish if it happens 

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

How many 1,000 yard seasons have there been for Tight Ends in the history of the NFL?

 

Very few...and that's the point: why would you spend s top-10 pick on a position that doesn't produce much offensively?

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I had a higher grade on OJ Howard (and I didn't absolutely love Howard either) than I do on Hock. I think his receiving ability is being a little overestimated. To me he is a good, all round, tight end prospect. I don't see the elite game breaker there though that others do. 

He has gotten a huge lift from the media since the season ended. Good player, but I feel like he jumped into the overrated category with the offseason hype. 

[JM57]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

How many 1,000 yard seasons have there been for Tight Ends in the history of the NFL?

http://pfref.com/tiny/9WUg2

 

45. 21 of them since 2009 (last 10 seasons), 24 of them between 1961 (Ditka) and 2008.

[Iamkrgr]

I like the idea of Hockenson but I just don't think I'd be able to pass up on one of the pass rushers at 9. I think the better play is to see if there is a TE available at 40 that you like and grade accordingly. Irv Smith is someone that could be there. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Iamkrgr

[WideNine]

34 minutes ago, Iamkrgr said:

I like the idea of Hockenson but I just don't think I'd be able to pass up on one of the pass rushers at 9. I think the better play is to see if there is a TE available at 40 that you like and grade accordingly. Irv Smith is someone that could be there. 

 

If they pass on Hock, Irv Smith is not the answer at 6' 2".

 

My next target with the most upside IMO would be Josh Oliver from San Jose St.

 

Big kid, great measurables from the combine, biggest hands of the class, and you don't hear things like "loses focus, or inconsistent" when it comes to his catching ability like you hear with some of the other prospects.

 

Like most of the later round TE prospects there will be more coaching up needed around refining blocking and routes, but that is to be expected.

[Cornette's Commentary]

8 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

If they pass on Hock, Irv Smith is not the answer at 6' 2".

 

My next target with the most upside IMO would be Josh Oliver from San Jose St.

 

Big kid, great measurables from the combine, biggest hands of the class, and you don't hear things like "loses focus, or inconsistent" when it comes to his catching ability like you hear with some of the other prospects.

 

Like most of the later round TE prospects there will be more coaching up needed around refining blocking and routes, but that is to be expected.

Kahale Warring (6'5", 252) or Jace Sternberger (6'4" 251) could be options between the 3rd and the 5th.

They've had a private visit with Sternberger.

[YoloinOhio]

43 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

If they pass on Hock, Irv Smith is not the answer at 6' 2".

 

My next target with the most upside IMO would be Josh Oliver from San Jose St.

 

Big kid, great measurables from the combine, biggest hands of the class, and you don't hear things like "loses focus, or inconsistent" when it comes to his catching ability like you hear with some of the other prospects.

 

Like most of the later round TE prospects there will be more coaching up needed around refining blocking and routes, but that is to be expected.

I actually love Irv Smith in this offense because he can be used at big WR, TE, red zone, hback, and an excellent blocker. We have three taller TEs behind him, he’s more of an offensive weapon