Daniel Jeremiah mock #3 (Hockenson to Bills)

[thebandit27]

19 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

We do not need a tight end right now with our first pick. Let us rebuild our defense first to stop people, and let Josh develop some more this year. Next year we will be better suited to engage in shoot outs. All of this talk about Hock and Metcalf...I think it is a wonderful dream like scenario...just not realistic. Who is going to stop teams from marching down the field? This current DL is horrid. 

 

We shouldn't be drafting for need regardless; this team should be stocking the roster with talented players at the most critical positions--the ones you pay $15M+ AAV for in free agency.  Having those guys in the fold means that you don't have to pay enormous FA dollars to get them, which means you can pay more reasonable sums like $11M AAV for Mitch Morse when you need to.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Misleading statistic and you know it. So, you are content with Murphy, Lawson and Lorax? A rotation of marginal DT's? 

 

I don't think you can say that a ranking of 2nd in total defense equates with empirical proof that the current unit isn't working. I've been as vocal as anyone about the fact that I think the best players in this class are on the defensive side of the ball, I have 20 first round grades, only three on offense, and DK and Hock are not among them. I think the Bills should take a defensive lineman at #9 if one of the top guys falls. Their two top edge rushers - Hughes and Lorax will be a combined age of 67 when the season starts, Lawson is a good rotational end but has not developed as I would have hoped as a pass rusher, and Murphy is a waste of space. On the inside Star is average, Harrison Phillips is a promising 1 technique but isn't going to offer any rush capacity and Jordan Phillips is a hit or miss guy every snap who makes big plays but big mistakes. So yes, I think defensive line is a need and the first round will offer opportunities to address that need. That said it still isn't a unit that is proven not to be working. It just lacks elite talent.

[JM57]

2 minutes ago, dlonce said:

 

Gronk and Brady fit like a hand and glove. Brady used his TEs,made Aaron Hernandez look like a gold jacket candidate.

Hindsight...

 

If you draft a TE this high up you better pray he’s an All Pro in your system.

This reeks of Eric Ebron and how the former board jumped all over him as our pick. Deja Vu.

 

Im positive he’s not going 9 to the Bills,neither is Metcalf. Thank god,it would be a wasted pick.

Pegulas future Son In Law will be croomed to be the starter.

 

Too many high end DTs there and we need to replace Williams with potential quality.

Eric Ebron was hyped for his receiving skills and those only. He wasn't known for his all around game or his blocking. It was his athleticism that got people hyped up. Apples and oranges to Hockenson who is getting hype because he excels in all aspects of the position.

[Rocket94]

I would take a strong defense first. This current unit is not working...obvious and empirically proven. Yes, Kyle Williams needs to be replaced immediately...not some bogus rotational player either. Lorax needs to be replaced...put Edmunds there in his natural position. One of the Devins and a good 3T and edge.

[YoloinOhio]

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

3 years in a major football program, a lack of production, and still very raw? That’s a big red flag for me. 

He’s raw as a pass rusher because he doesn’t have the technique/polish to consistently win 1 v 1 vs a OT (ie Bosa’s strength)but not on the inside, where he is better fit but his coaches didn’t always have the depth on the edge to play him inside. I don’t really buy the “lack of production” yet - how is that being measured for him? Until i know that I can’t buy in that there is a true lack. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Rocket94]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think you can say that a ranking of 2nd in total defense equates with empirical proof that the current unit isn't working. I've been as vocal as anyone about the fact that I think the best players in this class are on the defensive side of the ball, I have 20 first round grades, only three on offense, and DK and Hock are not among them. I think the Bills should take a defensive lineman at #9 if one of the top guys falls. Their two top edge rushers - Hughes and Lorax will be a combined age of 67 when the season starts, Lawson is a good rotational end but has not developed as I would have hoped as a pass rusher, and Murphy is a waste of space. On the inside Star is average, Harrison Phillips is a promising 1 technique but isn't going to offer any rush capacity and Jordan Phillips is a hit or miss guy every snap who makes big plays but big mistakes. So yes, I think defensive line is a need and the first round will offer opportunities to address that need. That said it still isn't a unit that is proven not to be working. It just lacks elite talent.

Yes...Right on! Elite Talent! We have to get in front of this situation. A few good moves with healthy, relentless/disruptive players. These other guys are just pulling guard duty...

Edited April 18, 2019 by Rocket94

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s raw as a pass rusher because he doesn’t have the technique/polish to consistently win 1 v 1 vs a OT (ie Bosa’s strength)but not on the inside, where he is better fit but his coaches didn’t always have the depth on the edge to play him inside. I don’t really buy the “lack of production” yet - how is that being measured for him? Until i know that I can’t buy in that there is a true lack. 

 

I don't have any worries about the fact he doesn't have high sack numbers. That is what people mean when they say "lacks production." This kid has all the tools and I agree with you Yolo I think a 4-3 his "home" is as a 3tech but he can go and play outside when you are in jumbo and goalline and be effective there too.

[Bangarang]

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s raw as a pass rusher because he doesn’t have the technique/polish to consistently win 1 v 1 vs a OT (ie Bosa’s strength)but not on the inside, where he is better fit but his coaches didn’t always have the depth on the edge to play him inside. I don’t really buy the “lack of production” yet - how is that being measured for him? Until i know that I can’t buy in that there is a true lack. 

 

Thats fair. I also just read an article that says multiple teams have medical red flags on Gary. Who knows how legit that is though.

[thebandit27]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s raw as a pass rusher because he doesn’t have the technique/polish to consistently win 1 v 1 vs a OT (ie Bosa’s strength)but not on the inside, where he is better fit but his coaches didn’t always have the depth on the edge to play him inside. I don’t really buy the “lack of production” yet - how is that being measured for him? Until i know that I can’t buy in that there is a true lack. 

 

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't have any worries about the fact he doesn't have high sack numbers. That is what people mean when they say "lacks production." This kid has all the tools and I agree with you Yolo I think a 4-3 his "home" is as a 3tech but he can go and play outside when you are in jumbo and goalline and be effective there too.

 

I actually think that his best fit is as a 7-tech end, which is why I could see him being a great fit for this defense.  That's the spot at which Charles Johnson had 41 sacks in 4 seasons under McDermott in Carolina.

 

Look at the two players side-by-side:

Johnson - 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84 speed (1.67 10-split), 33 reps, 34" vertical, 9'10" broad, 7.50 3-cone, 34.25" arms, 9.63" hands

Gary - 6'4", 277 lbs, 4.58 speed (1.63 10-split), 26 reps, 38" vertical, 10' broad, 7.26 3-cone, 34.125" arms, 9.63" hands

[Cornette's Commentary]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

I actually think that his best fit is as a 7-tech end, which is why I could see him being a great fit for this defense.  That's the spot at which Charles Johnson had 41 sacks in 4 seasons under McDermott in Carolina.

 

Look at the two players side-by-side:

Johnson - 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84 speed (1.67 10-split), 33 reps, 34" vertical, 9'10" broad, 7.50 3-cone, 34.25" arms, 9.63" hands

Gary - 6'4", 277 lbs, 4.58 speed (1.63 10-split), 26 reps, 38" vertical, 10' broad, 7.26 3-cone, 34.125" arms, 9.63" hands

I believe the one thing that must be kept in mind, regarding Rashan Gary, is how Don Brown used him in that defense.  I always thought that Gary would have made a better DT than a DE.  Granted, he wasn't horrible as a DE, but his size and weight just seemed more ideal for a DT.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Wow...MLB that high?  I don't share that opinion.  I actually think that falls rather low on the list.  I mean, in recent years, the Bills have gotten solid MLB play from mid-round picks like Preston Brown, street FAs like Zach Brown, and former UDFAs like Julian Stanford (who, IMO, looked every bit as good as Edmunds in spot duty last year).

 

I'd say it looks more like this:

QB

Pass rusher

CB

WR

LT

C

Everything else that's not STs

STs

 

I'm fine with DE/LT/CB/MLB all being on an even playing field. I was just trying to put myself in how Beane/McDermott think.

[Nihilarian]

I still believe the best thing that can happen for the defense this year is to build a power run game (by the RBs) and strong passing game that can sustain drives and score.

 

Last years offense went three and out so often it caused several blowouts and special teams was also a clear problem.  The Bills average drive start was at the 10 yard line.

 

What I see in free agency this year is six offensive line additions and the only really solid starter is center Mitch Morse and the rest are all maybes. OT might still be a need, TE is a need, WR is a need. DT and pass rusher are also needs.

 

Talking about needing elite players on defense. Excuse me but the Bills already have an elite DBs as they were the #1 team in the NFL in pass defense in 2018. The only solid elite players on offense are...

[MiltonWaddams]

I think that the possibility that Hock Could be the pick at nine, reiterates the fact that pick number nine is in somewhat of a no man’s land. I don’t dislike him in the least, but there are no set players to pick after about the seventh pick.

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't have any worries about the fact he doesn't have high sack numbers. That is what people mean when they say "lacks production." This kid has all the tools and I agree with you Yolo I think a 4-3 his "home" is as a 3tech but he can go and play outside when you are in jumbo and goalline and be effective there too.

Sacks as production is lazy to me, unless the guy is set free to rush the passer a lot and plays a ton of snaps. He was not, nor was Ed Oliver. He was more free than Oliver, but still not a “pass rusher” - he was even taken off the field at times in obvious passing situations for more pure pass rush personnel.  Plus the fact that at Michigan they do a ton of safety and LB blitzes and they don’t rush the QB with the DL as much as say osu who rolls their DL 8 guys deep.  He was also hurt much of the year - one can certainly “knock” him for that but it is what it is. Anyway  - is he my first choice at 9? No but would I love him as a DL chess piece? Absolutely. He’s a freak and he’s versatile. 

 

Like Dremont Jones had what... 8.5 sacks last year. That doesn’t make him the best DL at Ohio state. It means he played a lot and others ate up blockers. I like Jones but he’s not Gary, maybe Gary Lite. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

I still believe the best thing that can happen for the defense this year is to build a power run game (by the RBs) and strong passing game that can sustain drives and score.

 

Last years offense went three and out so often it caused several blowouts and special teams was also a clear problem.  The Bills average drive start was at the 10 yard line.

 

What I see in free agency this year is six offensive line additions and the only really solid starter is center Mitch Morse and the rest are all maybes. OT might still be a need, TE is a need, WR is a need. DT and pass rusher are also needs.

 

Talking about needing elite players on defense. Excuse me but the Bills already have an elite DBs as they were the #1 team in the NFL in pass defense in 2018. The only solid elite players on offense are...

 

I will keep saying it but Quinton Spain is not a maybe. He is a stud and I absolutely promise the threads after week 4 will be "why didn't we sign him up for longer?"

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I actually think that his best fit is as a 7-tech end, which is why I could see him being a great fit for this defense.  That's the spot at which Charles Johnson had 41 sacks in 4 seasons under McDermott in Carolina.

 

Look at the two players side-by-side:

Johnson - 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84 speed (1.67 10-split), 33 reps, 34" vertical, 9'10" broad, 7.50 3-cone, 34.25" arms, 9.63" hands

Gary - 6'4", 277 lbs, 4.58 speed (1.63 10-split), 26 reps, 38" vertical, 10' broad, 7.26 3-cone, 34.125" arms, 9.63" hands

Hardy - 6'4", 281 lbs, 4.81 speed (1.75 10-split), 21 reps, 35" vertical, 9'9" broad, 7.25 3-cone

[Nihilarian]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I will keep saying it but Quinton Spain is not a maybe. He is a stud and I absolutely promise the threads after week 4 will be "why didn't we sign him up for longer?"

Okay, so say LG and OC are set. That still leaves question marks at RG, RT and Dawkins had a down year last season. The run game and O line protection should be the #1 priority this year. Did they fix it so they have no weakness? 

 

Anyway, If you go by NFL.com grades there are 4 WRs with a 6.0 or better, need.

6 O-linemen with 6.0 or better, need.

11 D linemen with a 6.0 or better, need. 

2 Lbers, with a 6.0 or better.  

2 CBs with a 6.0 or better.

1 safety with a 6.0 or better.

two QBs with a 6.0 or better. 

ONE TE, need with a grade of 6.35 which puts him as 5th best player in the draft! 

[thebandit27]

34 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Hardy - 6'4", 281 lbs, 4.81 speed (1.75 10-split), 21 reps, 35" vertical, 9'9" broad, 7.25 3-cone

 

Hardy played well in that defense, but he played the 9-tech if I remember correctly?

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Joe B just came out with his Mock Draft and has us going

 

9 - Jonah Williams-T/G Alabama 6'4 302

 

40 - Jaylon Ferguson-DE LA Tech 6'5 271

 

74 - Joejuan Williams-CB Vanderbilt 6'4 211

 

I know people would be underwhelmed but I'd sign up for that right now

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Joe B just came out with his Mock Draft and has us going

 

9 - Jonah Williams-T/G Alabama 6'4 302

 

40 - Jaylon Ferguson-DE LA Tech 6'5 271

 

74 - Joejuan Williams-CB Vanderbilt 6'4 211

 

I know people would be underwhelmed but I'd sign up for that right now

Oh god 

 

then again I don’t know what’s best for me 

 

but where’s by TE

Edited April 18, 2019 by YoloinOhio