JoPar_v2 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 7 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Wow. Great QB, maybe top 5, but not worth that money to the point where it handycaps your already struggling team “Maybe” top 5. Name 5 QBs in the league better than him right now. And again with this “handicapping” non-argument. Seriously what has happened around here.
JoPar_v2 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I do not think any single player is worth 30 million a year BUT he is certainly one of the 5 best in NFL currently. Wilson and any other player is “worth” what the market dictates. You may spit at how much athletes make in general, but you can’t sit there and say Wilson aint worth the money RELATIVE to what his contemporaries are making at the position. So, again, provide something else besides vague blue collar feelings of “worth”. 2 hours ago, StHustle said: Dude you are clueless My man he’s a well known idiot around here don’t sweat it. 1
JoPar_v2 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 8 hours ago, cba fan said: To open up a fan of worms. There was an article on qb contract handling that predicted drastic change soon. As some but not all GM's notice that you don't win super bowls and often do not even make playoffs with high qb salary some may do the following. Only keep qb on rookie deal. Then franchise him and work a trade for assets and roll the dice on drafting next franchise qb. Keep him for rookie deal and rinse and repeat. Article assumes many FO's will not do it as winning with say aaron rodgers and keeping job longer and winning, even with no super bowls, is better than getting fired for trading franchise type players in their prime. This allows market to remain viable for trade of qb's at end of rookie deals. Goes on to say it only takes one gm to start this trend. Interesting strategy requiring ballsy FO. Still waiting on that link to your “article” chief. 1
GunnerBill Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 9 hours ago, cba fan said: Teams with high QB salaries are far more likely to not win the super bowl. Stats don't lie. This is not hard. Not sure why people argue history. Teams with low QB salaries are far more likely to not win the Superbowl too. Every year 31 teams paying QBs varying amounts fail to win the Superbowl. 2
GunnerBill Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 2 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: “Maybe” top 5. Name 5 QBs in the league better than him right now. And again with this “handicapping” non-argument. Seriously what has happened around here. I think Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Big Ben are still the four best Quarterbacks in the league. They have proven it over a long period of time and they are still producing. I think after that Wilson is as good as anybody. I can see arguments for others.... Rivers is almost in the same camp as the 4 above but without the post-season success to show for it, the re-built Andrew Luck looks back to somewhere like his best but still needs to play better in crunch situations. The phenom Pat Mahomes can make throws that Wilson can't... but only has a one year track record to compare against and Matt Ryan is one of the most consistent Quarterbacks in the league and should - if Kyle Shanahan wasn't an idiot - have a ring to show for it but he doesn't have the clutch ability of Wilson. I think you would be hard pushed to argue coherently that Wilson isn't at worst in the top half dozen in the NFL. And he is considerably younger than the 4 guys that I would say are definitely above him. 1
SouthNYfan Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 2 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Wilson and any other player is “worth” what the market dictates. You may spit at how much athletes make in general, but you can’t sit there and say Wilson aint worth the money RELATIVE to what his contemporaries are making at the position. So, again, provide something else besides vague blue collar feelings of “worth”. My man he’s a well known idiot around here don’t sweat it. I have about 2 pages of the same discussion in this thread about people going on with the "athletes aren't worth that much" It's a free market/supply and demand. They are paid that because they generate even more income then they for the owners. Your point about what he makes compared to his peers is definitely good too!! 1
bmur66 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 Every time I hear Russell Wilson's name I think of TJ Graham. And I don't even know what he looks like. 1
JoPar_v2 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Big Ben are still the four best Quarterbacks in the league. They have proven it over a long period of time and they are still producing. I think after that Wilson is as good as anybody. I can see arguments for others.... Rivers is almost in the same camp as the 4 above but without the post-season success to show for it, the re-built Andrew Luck looks back to somewhere like his best but still needs to play better in crunch situations. The phenom Pat Mahomes can make throws that Wilson can't... but only has a one year track record to compare against and Matt Ryan is one of the most consistent Quarterbacks in the league and should - if Kyle Shanahan wasn't an idiot - have a ring to show for it but he doesn't have the clutch ability of Wilson. I think you would be hard pushed to argue coherently that Wilson isn't at worst in the top half dozen in the NFL. And he is considerably younger than the 4 guys that I would say are definitely above him. You lost me at Big Ben...just kidding. Sure it’s relatively tight in that 3-6 range but I think Wilson is vastly better than Ben at present. 3 minutes ago, bmur66 said: Every time I hear Russell Wilson's name I think of TJ Graham. And I don't even know what he looks like. Sad isn’t it? Edited April 17, 2019 by JoPar_v2 1
GunnerBill Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 50 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: You lost me at Big Ben...just kidding. Sure it’s relatively tight in that 3-6 range but I think Wilson is vastly better than Ben at present. I still think Ben is terrific. He had a career high in yards and touchdown passes last year. And while I think he is a "problem" in the locker room his production on the football field is still outstanding. I watch the tape and I still see a bordering on elite Quarterback. I don't think he gets the respect he deserves.... not sure he ever has to be honest.
SouthNYfan Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I still think Ben is terrific. He had a career high in yards and touchdown passes last year. And while I think he is a "problem" in the locker room his production on the football field is still outstanding. I watch the tape and I still see a bordering on elite Quarterback. I don't think he gets the respect he deserves.... not sure he ever has to be honest. I think he was a bit overrated early in his career and now is a bit underrated, though I think the latter is due to people disliking him personally, or the fact that he's had a pretty stacked rb/wr core most of his career
JoPar_v2 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I still think Ben is terrific. He had a career high in yards and touchdown passes last year. And while I think he is a "problem" in the locker room his production on the football field is still outstanding. I watch the tape and I still see a bordering on elite Quarterback. I don't think he gets the respect he deserves.... not sure he ever has to be honest. I think at his peak Ben was excellent, not knocking you for throwing him in there. Then again, the thread is about Wilson, and if we talk about the relative complimentary talent, I think Ben had an easier go of it overall wouldn’t you say? Edited April 17, 2019 by JoPar_v2
GunnerBill Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: I think at his peak Ben was excellent, not knocking you for throwing him in there. Then again, the thread is about Wilson, and if we talk about the relative complimentary talent, I think Ben had an easier go of it overall wouldn’t you say? He has certainly had more talented offenses around him in the last few years - 100%, though equally he has had much weaker defenses. It's strange in a way.... Ben won his Superbowls (particularly the second one) with bad offensive lines and then has been a nearly man with some of the best o-lines in the league. Russell won his Superbowl with a very good o-line (highest paid in the league at the time) and then has been a nearly man with poorer protection. The common thread between Russell's Superbowl appearances and Ben's is that all 5 combined Superbowl appearances between them were on the back of top 5 defenses. Indeed four of them (Pitt in 08 and 10 and Sea in 13 and 14) were on the back of #1 ranked total defenses. 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 5 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: “Maybe” top 5. Name 5 QBs in the league better than him right now. And again with this “handicapping” non-argument. Seriously what has happened around here. Right now my top 10 based on efficiency are: Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Watson, Luck, Roethlisberger, Wilson, Ryan, Rivers In arguing top 5 in the game there is a weight factor for staying power, so pull out Mahomes & Watson.
KD in CA Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 On 4/16/2019 at 4:03 AM, Wo-Bah said: I respectfully disagree. Again, I reiterate - no athlete is worth that kind of money. He's a decent QB, but, no. How do you define “worth”?
Jerome007 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Dopey said: this. If your wife is worth $360- $400 mil and is fine a heck, why not help yourself out by being able to field a good enough team to win multiple SB's? So you're telling us that Brady ALSO picked a good wife that if she divorces he'll keep his money too? Damn. He knows how to play the rules to the max 1
cba fan Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Still waiting on that link to your “article” chief. still waiting for your opinion on the theory of trading before 2nd contract. Internet article was awhile ago and I can not find it back. If I find it I will post it so you can move on and give your opinion on it. What does it matter? It is an opinion. Could be anyone's, who cares? One I do not necessarily share. Just putting it out there for those who hate when we bring up the undeniable fact that big QB salaries reduce significantly a teams chances to win Super Bowls. Personally it would be hard for me as a FO exec to trade a franchise guy even with the facts in front of me that this alternate way of treating the QB salary issue may be the way to go. I would probably take my job security and keep the franchise guy and hope against hope I could be the outliers like the Manning's both won Super Bowls when on big contracts. circumstances could make me do it though. I would have traded Rogers already as I don't feel he is a leader and his weird grudges have held the team back. Same with Big Ben and his long list of crap. Edited April 17, 2019 by cba fan
Orlando Buffalo Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 8 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Wilson and any other player is “worth” what the market dictates. You may spit at how much athletes make in general, but you can’t sit there and say Wilson aint worth the money RELATIVE to what his contemporaries are making at the position. So, again, provide something else besides vague blue collar feelings of “worth”. My man he’s a well known idiot around here don’t sweat it. My comment about Wilsons worth is based on the idea that in a salary cap league that no individual should eat up that much of the cap. Also i said he is top 5 in worth. I read my comment again and you really did read far into what was an innocous comment.
cba fan Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, KD in CA said: How do you define “worth”? agreed. People who think athletes are not worth their salaries are socialists or communists or something. Like a great hard working blue collar welder could book an arena and get 15 to 30 K to show up screaming in happiness buying tickets for $100, beer, apparel, and DVD's of you welding.......etc etc.... It is laughable. They do not understand demand and market rates for that demand. You never hear them complain about actors or entertainers who work much much less and make much much more than high end high paid athletes. 1
Toesy Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 These salary cap complaints are not logical IMO-a top QB is worth every penny-it is the only position where the guy can literally put a lousy team on his back and carry it to victory sometimes. No other position can do that-Demarcus Lawrence signed for 21 a year and he cannot do that at all. QB is like goalie in hockey-the way Hasek at his best carried that lousy Sabres team could not have been matched by Gretzky at his best IMO.
mannc Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Toesy said: These salary cap complaints are not logical IMO-a top QB is worth every penny-it is the only position where the guy can literally put a lousy team on his back and carry it to victory sometimes. No other position can do that-Demarcus Lawrence signed for 21 a year and he cannot do that at all. QB is like goalie in hockey-the way Hasek at his best carried that lousy Sabres team could not have been matched by Gretzky at his best IMO. Correct. In a true free market (no salary cap, no CBA) elite QBs would make FAR more than they currently do. Teams like Dallas and the Giants would be in a position to pay an Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes $100 million per year, or more. 1
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