Toesy Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 If you are Seattle and you don't want to pay market price for a franchise QB then you have to have the replacement on the roster or draft him right now-Belichuk had Garrapolo but Kraft overruled him.
Pete Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Toesy said: Obviously no QB at Wilson's level has ever been traded or released-this would have been the first so it was always a long shot-I wonder who were the top QBs who moved-I have no idea-I would guess Montana and maybe Favre-I don't know which guy was the stronger QB at the time they moved out. Drew brees
prissythecat Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 There are a number of articles out there showing that sinking lots of money into the QB position more often than not does not translate into success. The below USA Today article highlights an analysis showing that there is no correlation between paying top dollar for QB and wins. It makes intuitive sense since any team paying through the nose cannot invest in other positions needed to field a solid team. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/nfl-quarterback-salaries-salary-cap-kirk-cousins-free-agency You may have a shiny pricey QB toy but if the rest of the team is average, its not easy to win consistently. Just take a look at Green Bay, Atlanta, Ravens, Lions, etc. While the one team that is consistently winning --New England--isn't spending disproportionate amounts on the QB.... With all the money that Seattle is now tying up in Russell Wilson, they have that much less to shore up defense, run game etc. And I expect that Seattle will not be very relevant in the NFC SB hunt anytime soon.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Pete said: Drew brees Brees wasn't at Wilson's level when he switched teams. Nor was he traded or released. He was a FA returning from an often career-ending injury (rotator cuff injury and torn labrum) and the Chargers offered him a 5 year, $50M deal (he turned them down).
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, prissythecat said: There are a number of articles out there showing that sinking lots of money into the QB position more often than not does not translate into success. The below USA Today article highlights an analysis showing that there is no correlation between paying top dollar for QB and wins. It makes intuitive sense since any team paying through the nose cannot invest in other positions needed to field a solid team. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/nfl-quarterback-salaries-salary-cap-kirk-cousins-free-agency You may have a shiny pricey QB toy but if the rest of the team is average, its not easy to win consistently. Just take a look at Green Bay, Atlanta, Ravens, Lions, etc. While the one team that is consistently winning --New England--isn't spending disproportionate amounts on the QB.... With all the money that Seattle is now tying up in Russell Wilson, they have that much less to shore up defense, run game etc. And I expect that Seattle will not be very relevant in the NFC SB hunt anytime soon. Just a side point that paying the QB doesn't seem to have stopped the Saints from contending for championships of recent. It came down to fluke plays the last two years. I thought it did, actually, but it turns out it had more to do with coaching and with decisions about how to spend the rest of the $$. Might be true of GB and Atlanta as well. Ravens and Lions, I don't personally think Flacco and Stafford are "all that". I share your expectation about Seattle, but to me it has more to do with coaching on offense and defense and Carroll's personnel decisions.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Yep. Those who are saying the Seahawks paid too much are clueless. Wilsons a top QB in the league and could only hope Allen turns into the QB Wilson is. The Seahawks would've been morons not to pay him. Disagree. If Allen turns into Wilson, we need to let him walk. Beane will need to keep us out of salary cap hell. Can’t go through the pain of rebuilding a 7 win team again. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: You realize that many times coaches rest their best players to prevent injury They don't do it as it suits them They also play a ridiculously grueling schedule If it were the last week of the season sure, I guess I get it. But what I hear often is these prima donas take themselves out of games. to "rest" boo freaking hoo. if you are that "tired" retire your oldass. Grueling schedule? Reduce the # of games then. these wussies wouldn't last 1 week in the NHL or NFL
Rockinon Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 But do they have enough money to sign their DE now too?
Koko78 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Just a side point that paying the QB doesn't seem to have stopped the Saints from contending for championships of recent. It came down to fluke plays the last two years. I thought it did, actually, but it turns out it had more to do with coaching and with decisions about how to spend the rest of the $$. Might be true of GB and Atlanta as well. Ravens and Lions, I don't personally think Flacco and Stafford are "all that". I share your expectation about Seattle, but to me it has more to do with coaching on offense and defense and Carroll's personnel decisions. The Saints also had a number of 7-9 lost years because they couldn't afford to surround Brees with talent on offense (or have talent on defense) due to his massive salary (made worse by some piss poor spending on losers like Byrd.) It wasn't until the last two years that they worked themselves out of cap hell and were able to draft/sign some talent to get back on top, after 4 of the previous 5 years at 7-9. Don't get me wrong, Seattle had no choice but to pay Wilson; it was the correct call - but the Seahags are setting themselves up for the same problem.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 Just now, Koko78 said: The Saints also had a number of 7-9 lost years because they couldn't afford to surround Brees with talent on offense (or have talent on defense) due to his massive salary (made worse by some piss poor spending on losers like Byrd.) It wasn't until the last two years that they worked themselves out of cap hell and were able to draft/sign some talent to get back on top, after 4 of the previous 5 years at 7-9. Don't get me wrong, Seattle had no choice but to pay Wilson; it was the correct call - but the Seahags are setting themselves up for the same problem. Look at your second sentence. I thought, at the time, that the problem was Brees massive salary. But in hindsight, that can't have been the problem. Brees salary hasn't decreased of recent. Other bad cap choices have. So now I think the problem wasn't Brees salary per se (or how are they managing to draft/sign now?) but poor choices on how to spend the rest of their cap space (Byrd etc)
Tipster19 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: Wilson is an excellent QB and should be paid with the elite. That said I wonder if teams will try to develop a second option that will be cheaper. The reality is that when you pay one position that much, you need to go cheaper at other positions. You need a great, well paid QB who can carry a team or a very good, cheap first contract QB you can build around. It will be a mistake to pay a top rated to an average QB. I’m not but maybe you or someone else could start a post and elaborate on this point a bit more. A team should consider drafting a starting QB regardless if they already currently have a franchise QB. Baltimore came the closest to doing this just last year only they traded Flacco instead of grooming Jackson for a year. Another example was the drafting of Aaron Rodgers who eventually replaced Farve. I think that Baltimore should have kept Flacco for anther year and then traded him. Having your replacement already in place would only motivate an incumbent player to play at a higher level, hence driving up his trade value in the following year. Staying with the Baltimore scenario for a moment to emphasize the point they should now still be receptive to drafting a high projected QB in the next 2 to 3 drafts. Keep this perpetual motion going at the most highly profiled and paid position in the NFL. Obtain and start grooming Jackson’s potential replacement so when Jackson’s rookie contract expires the team will have options. Another concept that was similiar philosophy was when Mike Shanahan was with Washington and they drafted RGIII and Cousins in the same draft. Teams and their administrators are going to have to come up with better leverage because these monster contracts are going to gut teams. With all that being Wilson deserves that contract, he consistently elevates that team.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: The Saints also had a number of 7-9 lost years because they couldn't afford to surround Brees with talent on offense (or have talent on defense) due to his massive salary (made worse by some piss poor spending on losers like Byrd.) It wasn't until the last two years that they worked themselves out of cap hell and were able to draft/sign some talent to get back on top, after 4 of the previous 5 years at 7-9. Don't get me wrong, Seattle had no choice but to pay Wilson; it was the correct call - but the Seahags are setting themselves up for the same problem. This stuff is overrated. The Saints just whiffed on a bunch of picks. Recently, they started nailing the draft. get a true franchise qb and everything else falls in place. The problem is when have Joe Flacco, Ryan Tannehill, etc. you’re kinda screed them. The worst thing for the Bills is for Allen to fall in that group (though that could lead to a few playoffs berths).
SouthNYfan Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: If it were the last week of the season sure, I guess I get it. But what I hear often is these prima donas take themselves out of games. to "rest" boo freaking hoo. if you are that "tired" retire your oldass. Grueling schedule? Reduce the # of games then. these wussies wouldn't last 1 week in the NHL or NFL Let me know when you play an 82 game NBA season in 165 days NFL players wouldn't last a week in the NBA with the constant cardio and jumping for 40 minutes a night 3-4 days a week either You realize that NFL players don't play both sides of the ball right? They get breaks between possessions and many don't even play every down They are different sports They rest because their coach tells them to They wind up with muscle fatigue that leads to injuries Rest prevents that If you think the NBA is easy and doesn't take a toll on player bodies then you are completely lost 1 2
Ramza86 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Wo-Bah said: I respectfully disagree. Again, I reiterate - no athlete is worth that kind of money. He's a decent QB, but, no. The going rate is the going rate man. If you dont pay...youll be paying about 6 million less for Kirk Cousin type QBs. What are you going to draft franchise QBs every 5 years and rotate them out when its payday time? Dont matter if its worth it or not. You have to pay.
JerseyBills Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Hes worth every penny. You should watch a Seahawks game He's def an elite QB but I don't see them sniffing a SB or Championship game with that money tied to one player. He's no Rodgers/Brees/Brady who can carry a team that far. 4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Let me know when you play an 82 game NBA season in 165 days NFL players wouldn't last a week in the NBA with the constant cardio and jumping for 40 minutes a night 3-4 days a week either You realize that NFL players don't play both sides of the ball right? They get breaks between possessions and many don't even play every down They are different sports They rest because their coach tells them to They wind up with muscle fatigue that leads to injuries Rest prevents that If you think the NBA is easy and doesn't take a toll on player bodies then you are completely lost Great Post 1
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) I didn’t read the thread but I just saw the video he posted late night from bed and ... I know he’s a weird guy but that was one of the most awkward things ever. Edited April 16, 2019 by YoloinOhio
Kirby Jackson Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, dpberr said: The Seahawks will quickly learn the pain of the Packers. Spending all that money on one position means you'll be forced to surround him with a sometimes good, often mediocre team of players and it makes the margin for error with draft picks absurdly small. They already have that and won 10 games last year.
SouthNYfan Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I didn’t read the thread but I just saw the video he posted late night from bed and ... I know he’s a weird guy but that was one of the most awkward things ever. I'm gonna have to find this
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: I'm gonna have to find this It’s creepy and disturbing. maybe it’s just me Edited April 16, 2019 by YoloinOhio 1 1
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